[GAMEPLAY] Randomize Tactical Combat Turns

I do not like this idea at all.. I like the current system, but I see its flaws.. I would much prefer an initiative system of some sort.. maybe dex + roll based.. but I can work with any system.. I just prefer a little more predictability..

Successfully updated karma reason!

Nah, randomization in matters like these does not work. It'd have to be affected by something else, like overall speed of the army or something.

To begin with, I'd rather not have a "side" based turn system, it just doesn't work well.

I got a different idea here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/395918

Successfully updated karma reason!

So far, all the others ideas seem like alot of programming work. So if Stardock wants to do the total overhaul then fine.

But my idea is just a simple way to give the AI a chance to put up more of a fight by sometimes getting the chance to have its turn first.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The current system does have benefits in that it gives strategic implications to your actions, and even if turns were randomized it's still crucial that first turn activity doesn't end the battle. It's not good if results are too chance based.

As for the ai, elemental still has too many ways of playing that it doesn't understand. As long as the ai tries to just spam stacks of death, I'll crush it, because I know exactly what it's going to do. Such a predictable player would never be forgiven.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I don't like the randomization idea. I'd far prefer an initiative system based on combat speed, perhaps factoring attacker/defender status into the calculation.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Quoting Twohawks,

reply 1

I do not like this idea at all.. I like the current system, but I see its flaws.. I would much prefer an initiative system of some sort.. maybe dex + roll based.. but I can work with any system.. I just prefer a little more predictability..

I agree with all that. All.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Agreed, an initiative system where the units would move in order of initiative - one that takes into account;

Random Factor (d20)

+ Armor - Lighter armored units are more likely to react quicker (Leather Armor +6, Chainmail +3, Plate Armor +0)

+ Experience - Experienced units are likely to react quicker (+1,+2,+3)

+ Army Commander Battle Experience (if any) - A more experienced army commander is more likely to have units that respond faster to opportunities

Talent: Expert Tactician - +3 Initiative Bonus to units under your command

Example:

Peasant Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+0) + Army Commander (+0) = 16 initiative

Observer Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+1) + Army Commander (+3) = 20 initiative

Observer Unit: d20(10) + Plate Armor (+0) + Experience (+1) + Army Commander (+3) = 14 initiative

Observer Unit: d20(14) + Plate Armor (+0) + Experience (+1) + Army Commander (+3) = 18 initiative

+1

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Edwin99,

reply 7

Agreed, an initiative system where the units would move in order of initiative - one that takes into account;

Random Factor (d20)

+ Armor - Lighter armored units are more likely to react quicker

+ Experience - Experienced units are likely to react quicker (+1,+2,+3)

+ Army Commander Battle Experience (if any) - A more experienced army commander is more likely to have units that respond faster to opportunities

Talent: Expert Tactician - +3 Initiative Bonus to units under your command
Example:

Peasant Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+0) + Army Commander (+0) = 16 initiative

Observer Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+1) + Army Commander (+3) = 20 initiative

These are great ideas !

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Edwin99,

reply 7

Agreed, an initiative system where the units would move in order of initiative - one that takes into account;

Random Factor (d20)

+ Armor - Lighter armored units are more likely to react quicker

+ Experience - Experienced units are likely to react quicker (+1,+2,+3)

+ Army Commander Battle Experience (if any) - A more experienced army commander is more likely to have units that respond faster to opportunities

Talent: Expert Tactician - +3 Initiative Bonus to units under your command

Example:

Peasant Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+0) + Army Commander (+0) = 16 initiative

Observer Unit: d20(10) + Leather Armor (+6) + Experience (+1) + Army Commander (+3) = 20 initiative

indeed armor should have an effect.. for this though each armor level (cloth lowest - full plate highest) should reduce initiative.. I do like the commander and exp mods a lot..

Successfully updated karma reason!

yes initiative would be fantastic, and either be based of the leader OR each unit has initiative or uses combat speed to determine who goes first.

Successfully updated karma reason!

They already have a capability like this in game, combat speed. Heavy armors drop combat speed, certain weapons increase it (as do spells). Having the order of combat per unit (not per side), based on remaining action points, seems like something that would use their current toolset (since I think action points is supposed to be influenced by combat speed), but remove some of the attacker advantage.

I have 2 units facing each other; a unit with a dagger (+0.25 CS), the other using heavy armor (-1CS).

Let's say dagger has 3 action points, while HA has 2. Dagger attacks 2 times, each consuming an action point. At that point, dagger has 1, HA has 2. HA gets one attack. At that point, they're equal, and dice are rolled to determine who gets next attack. Dagger wins, gets his 3rd attack, consumes all of his AP for that turn, then HA goes and consumes his AP for the turn. Hit next turn, and all AP are restored, and combat resumes again.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Are movement initiative and combat initiative two separate issues?

a. Movement initiative - controls in what order the units move. Remains the same for the entire battle.

b. Combat initiativie - controls in what order engaged units strike (attack) each other. Checked during each attack. You never know for sure which unit will make the first attack once they are engaged - the defender or the attacker, though its more likely to be the more experienced unit.

Example: TURN 1 - Unit 1 moves first (initiative 12). Unit 1 attacks unit 2 (roll for first strike - attacker or defender) and Unit 1 strikes first then unit 2 returns attack. Unit 1 attacks unit 2 a second time, this time 2 unit strikes first and unit 1 returns blow.

c. Tactical Combat related Talents:

Talent: Expert Tactician = +3 Movement Initiative Bonus (Your focus on tactical movement increases the chance for troops under your command to rapidly execute orders during a battle)
Talent: Weapons Drill Master = 20% Combat Initiative Bonus (Your focus on weapons drills increases the chance for troops under your command to strike first during combat)

Note: Each of the above talents only affect troops in the same army (city) as the sovereign with that talent.

Successfully updated karma reason!

agreed - i would also like a initiative system that takes many things into account

Successfully updated karma reason!

This could also be resolved by using the same system as GalCiv2, in which both sides get at least ONE round before they take losses. Thus even if you are initiating the attack AND you kill the enemy in your first attack he is still going to get one swing in before he dies. Only place that might not apply is in ranged combat, unless of course the unit you are attacking also has ranged ability.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Wow...my idea made it into 1.09!!!!! Even if its temporary, its cool and feels great to be alive!!!! I want to start making my own games now! You guys like WWII strategy? Or sports strategy? Thanks SD for the ego boost! Elemental Forever!!!

1.09
***********
* Battles *
+ The starting side in a tactical battle is now chosen randomly. The attacker and the defender have an equal chance to go first. This is a short-term change. In the longer term, we are moving to an initiative system (individual units moving based on their combat speed rather than each side taking a turn together).

Successfully updated karma reason!