Having fun BUT monster respawn bogs gameplay down

i agree that something should be done with regards to monster spawns... while i completely "get" the idea that as the nations influence expands, it causes the remaining badlands to shrink, causing an increase in the monster population - i think the current approach needs to be re-examined...

at a minimum, dont allow spawned creatures to roam into my civililized areas... sure, if i step outside my border, im free game... but allow me to protect my influence... perhaps something that can be achieved magically?

Maybe they should have a secondary influence zone that just surrounds the immediate vicinity around your cities and resources that would be considered "policed" that NPC monsters will stay out of.  Then also be able to set patrol routes for guards on caravan routes to keep those clear as well.  At least that way it would make sense if monsters are cruising around in the uninhabited parts of your zone.

I wonder if the Civ IV model of not allowing monsters to spawn within LoS of any other troops/cities would work here?  (Coupled with lowering the spawn rate to match the number of eligible tiles)  When it comes to defending caravans, I'd vastly prefer being able to just station a few troops along the route to prevent the one-turn-spawn-and-kill phenomenon.  The downside, of course, is that it gives rise to "fog-busting" units and cities that hurt immersion, in my opinion.

Maybe a "Monster Lair" is the best way to go about tackling the problem.  New lairs could potentially spawn occasionally, but you'd usually have warning and be given time to mobilize troops to deal with the problem (if you could afford the troops at the time, of course).

The messages that a group of adventures have opened a lair and released a bunch of monsters etc is a random even and I think that that sort of random even is fine within the boarders of a kingdom .  but other than that i agree -  i think the lairs in beta worked better.  kill the lair and kill the source of the monsters -  the lairs should re grow slowly in areas out side the kingdom - but not with in the kingdom.

I like the idea of lairs getting bigger and then splintering into smaller satellite lairs if they are not dealt with.  but only in the wilderness not in the kingdoms...

I also would like them to make some changes to monster spawns.  In most of my games it seems I spend more time fighting off random spawns then I do the AIs that I'm at war with...

I agree,but since we know it happened it would be cool to have the camera go there to know where it happens.

I remember reading in another thread that researching certain technologies causes a forced population boom in mobs, is that part of what is causing the above problems?

I remember other games where it was difficult if not impossible to level up new units once you cleared an area because they were too weak to send out alone and it was frustrating to have to stop advancing a higher level unit/group to babysit the newbie in battle.  Having these low level spawns gives them "fresh meat" to "practice" on, so I don't want to see them eliminated completely, but perhaps make it a game setting (separate from difficulty level please, just because I want more monsters doesn't mean I want them to decimate me)

I also remember games where I could "camp" lairs for gold and or monster drops (items or scales/eggs etc.) and that could be abused in MP games, so maybe add a setting where if you are inside the zone of control of a lair it can't spawn, or conversly it spawns more powerful monsters the longer it is camped as they get that "backed into a corner" lash out?

This was originally requested long ago...  permanent map structures where monsters would exist and live.  Somewhere along the way it was decided to have quests, treasures, monsters and dungeons all appear with a *poof*  and then disappear with a *poof*.  You find a midnight stone and *poof* the ancient battlefield is now gone.  You finish some research and *poof* there's now an ancient dungeon so you go inside and fight a battle then *poof* its gone.   One of the items I've listed in my long review is how we need permanent magic items and permanent magic locations:  https://forums.elementalgame.com/395477 

I'm not sure about the ramifications of having permanent structures - seems there would be quite a few cluttering up the map.  To simulate permanence, possibly reduce the total # of spawned special tiles but allow them to be re-usable to a limited extent.  I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the research X - new mobs spawn at a higher level, new tiles are available.  I'd almost rather have it be leader must be X level to enter.

Back to the multi-use idea - From the beginning of the game lairs/dungeons/caves, etc are exposed.  Landing on one for the first time pits you against the door guardians and the weak critters in the first couple levels - stage 1 - levels 1-3.   Revisiting pits you against stage 2, levels 4-6, revisiting pits you against stage 3, levels 7-10. A final push allows you to face a boss.  Not all notables would have all stages, i.e. it could be a spider lair that only goes up to stage 1, but a slightly different looking corrupted spider lair may go up to stage 3.   A "Boss" unit may be a queen or something, or on the spawns with higher stages it could be unique critters.  The cliched rats, then goblins, then hobgoblins, then X, all working to serve a dragon.  Once defeated the tile switches to a smoking ruin, disappears from cloth map but viewable when zoomed.

In conjunction you could have the organic growth/living world type thing - a stage 1 max spawn could grow over time to a stage 2, etc.  Additionally, if a stage reaches max pop it spawns a critter to roam.   Lower level critters would increase population more frequently.  Overpopulation events could be implemented to randomly re-populate the wilds.

The "fresh meat" mechanic can be replaced by training higher level/experienced units.   Instead of giving them a couple hp, give them the higher level and the benefits associated with that.  i.e. first level of "experienced" allows lvl 4 troops to be created.

Camping spawns - agree that that might be a concern, but either of the above suggestions would work.  In all honesty, i'd have the spawns set at like 20 turns or something so if someone wanted to camp it...go for it.

I wouldn't mind seeing some changes to how monsters spawn but...

Since you do know monsters will spawn in areas that lack influence, you can always spread your empire and build cities or even outposts (weak cities you never do much with) to spread your influence more and avoid having "gaps" where monsters spawn forever.

Teleport is your friend.  By mid/late you should have a child or champ who can cast and who can help with hopping around and cleaning up the more annoying pockets of "invading" monsters.

I'd still like to see a change.  Sometimes it's ridiculous how fast monsters spawn in teh wilds - out of thin air.

I agree with Wintersong, a prospering Kingdom/Empire would attract bandits.  For that reason I don't mind the random creatures and bandits, plus they are fun.  I just wish there was a better way to deal with them.  Right now I have to maintain, my expansion army, troops to guard my city, and a couple groups to patrol my borders.

Maybe they could put in a "Monster respawn rate" slider in gameplay options like the Tactical battle slider.

I'm thinking that they try to keep the monster population steady, and when the untamed spaces start to shrink alot, it starts to get a little goofy. Keep in mind though that they are the only way outside of warfare to level up your guys.

the monsters are supposed to be a real threat that needs to be dealt with.  do you think monsters care that you have settled somewhere? ofc not!  they see your cities as a buffet!  leave it as is.  if you don't want to hunt them, don't.  just leave a small army in all of your towns (which you should do anyway: WAR of magic)

They will destroy linked (but not joined) improvements as well as caravans.  The only way to deal with the constant stream of late game monster spawns is to station troops in the wilds and manually move them around to engage the spawns as they pop up.  It is ridiculously tedious in the later stages of the game.  Also, once your empire gets big, it's a pain to have to manually scroll to each area of wilds and inspect it for monster spawns.  Maybe the cloth map at a sufficient zoom level would be faster, but I have trouble distinguishing various map features on that at a glance.

It would be great if there was an option to just turn them off. The feature is more annoying than fun at the moment. I also find myself not researching the adventure tech because I don't want to fight these boring monsters...

Agreed that the relentless flow of weak monsters is quite annoying in the late game.  I have had times where I devoted one army to nothing but killing the monsters in one small area.  Every turn I would wipe out 2 monsters, and then 1 more would spawn.  It shouldn't take longer to clean up a 3x3 patch of wilderness than it takes to conquer an entire enemy nation.

I don't believe it's possible to actually clean it up. They just keep coming as you kill them.

Monsters are annoying but just like when you expand settlement in real life, wild animals become encroached and come visit your settlement more often. There should be focal pt for monsters (ie. monster lair), but the occasional incursions need to happen so to keep towns on their toes.

The real solution is not to restrict the monsters, but to have a more AUTOMATED way of dealing with them. Maybe some units can be given options to guard as sentries, which means they'll attack enemies within their sight radius, and then return to their original spot. Or they could roam the land as a patrol. Or some units may even become escorts to caravans, removing it from using for normal combat, but it keeps caravan safer. The goal is to have a measured and automated response against monsters, at the cost of some type of resource. This way you don't have to look all over the map to find monsters to clean up. This should be part of the things that game takes care of itself. And it also offers more choices this way. More resources spent will curtail monster, but takes resource away from regular army units. This is just like how National Guard works in peace time. So long as you spend the resource to fund internal security, they should be able to deal with the issues without your intervention. From time to time, a rare super monster (Godzilla) should still come visit just to keep things interesting.

Maybe like in Majesty. You put a gildar reward on a monsters head, and adventurers show up and kill it...

We have wild animals around here, but all the predators have been hunted out of the area.  Similarly, we have crime, but not a great deal - at least here in the suburbs.  IMO civilization has a certain deterrent factor in terms of reducing the volume of critters/bad guys.  I am equating influence with control and that may not be a direct relation.  Possibly add an initial influence, then a smaller zone of control.  Influence is a "border" that prevents opposition cities, travelers, etc while zone of control is where I patrol.  

I don't want to actively patrol, there isn't a patrol function therefore it would have to be manually.   I don't want to babysit my backyard when I'm expanding, I don't want to have to re-create caravans, improvements, etc just because.   I find it tedious.   An automated solution would be good, a purchasable improvement/a researchable tech, etc.   Alternatively, let me pacify the wilderness - let me clear the critters for good. 

Mid game becomes annoying as I'm trying to expand, yet constantly have to react to critters...that aren't really a threat, just obnoxious.   I like the idea of the random event that may trigger spawns, but would rather see a lair pop up "so and so has established a beachhead" "monsters erupt from an over dug gold mine" etc.

I also like the idea of a slider to determine frequency of spawns and/or random spawning events.  I still like the idea of the lairs that can grow over time, since it makes the landscape more organic and adds flexibility for quests.  

Anyone get the quest with the bunch of spiders and the armor?  Or the bunch of guys with the dragons egg?   Wouldn't those be prefaced much better with an evil temple sitting out in the countryside, surrounded by monsters that you have to fight your way into...then a couple pre-battles (different tactical maps/backgrounds to simulate diff lvls/difficulty) and then a final battle for the dragon egg/armor/doo-dad.    If you didn't make it all the way the first time, the monsters slowly regenerate - causing it to not just be a first come/first serve...but first to complete.

I'm not sure why, but playing a game on normal, these guys barely bothered me... once or twice some big spider/troll would threaten my towns, but a rare inconvenience.

Pretty much the same as the AI. The entire game seemed to consist of collecting goodie huts, hunting down monsters as I wondered beyond my zone, and wiping out any other faction I came across in a single battle (sovereign death). I suspect my starter sovereign (one of the presets) was too powerful.

nope.  the "AI" is just riddled with flaws.

Maybe the soverign could build some sort of "watchtower" that would prevent respawns if you don't want them.  I need them, however, badly, for leveling up my new hire champoins! 

How would you properly level up champions wihtout all the monster spawns!  And how would you get gold?