For the Next Major Update...

Theres also some talk about this in the thread about shards not working.

Basically i agree.. The game needs more stats, magical stats, different melee type stats etc..

No the problem is that Magic sucks and doesn't do anything or isn't very special.

Magic only sucks because they're basing it on armor. I think that if they simply added in this stat, magic would be more worthwhile in combat.

Or just used essence as the stat, though some spells should use armor if it is a physical manifestation of an effect.

Yeah, it would also need to differentiate between physical spells and metaphysical spells, which would be a lot of work. To be honest, I expected any game with magic to have a separate set of resistances for physical and magic. I was surprised to learn Stardock really dropped the ball here.

MOM and AOW both had a magic resistance stat.  Seems hard to understand how Elemental devs decided it was not needed.

Bump, the Stardock people must see this!

No, see, that's the whole problem. Magic sucks because it goes up against defence. You can get defence from armor, but tell me, how is that ****** armor going to defend you from a ball of fire hurled at your face? Since defence controls how much damage magic does, ogres and other such powerful monsters can easily shrug off your 50-100 damage spells, mitigating them to measly numbers in the single digits. In other games, magic is supposed to be EFFECTIVE against foes that are physically strong, for the sole reason that it ignores armor. Thus, we need a magic resistance stat derived from wisdom or intelligence that controls how much damage your spells do vs. oponents, not defence.

I agree -- how does metal armour defend against a lightning bolt?  if magic has to overcome defence not resistance you are left with a system where magic is less effective than a dagger and Channellers are meant to have fought Titans and destroyed the world.  3 damage at a time?  (Maybe Titans have a defence of Zero :)) 

it needs a re think as it's not fun and it makes no sense in the game mythology.  there are no wizard units - channellers are it. Magic should rock. You can re shape the world around you create  oceans and hills - but you can't hit some one in heavy armour?  makes not sense in a game about how powerful magic destroyed a world.

I agree with the need for spell effects to be based on Magic and not Physical, but we don't need a new stat.  We just need to have either 'Intelligence', or better yet, 'Wisdom' be the magic defense stat.

Adding new stats could cause more math bugs in the game.

Much agreed, Magic should be countered by resistance, not by defense.

It shouldn't just be magic, it should be elemental based....like a fire elemental should be damaged more by cold...and cold by fire.

Magic resistance could be only produced by champions with magic capability. Then the army's resistance would be the amount of magic power that the champion has divided by the number of soldiers in the company. This would do several things. It would make champions more worthwhile. It would make Imbuing champions worthwhile. It would limit the size of armies so that they dont grow super large. It would also make magic as epic as it should be for this sort of game.

If regular armies have no magic, a magical soveriegn should be able to decimate them unless they are protected by another sovereign or champion. Regular armies versus regular armies or champions would use defense, but any magic versus non magic would be fairly one sided. Summoned creatures of course would have some magic resistance as would magical creatures like dragons.

Magic armors would of course protect against magics.

Yes, when I attacked trolls, I did not care if I used fireball or lightning.  Yawn, who cares.  But, for one example, trolls should be vulnerable to fire, and perhaps evern regenerate physical damame.  Now THAT would add variety and strategy to a battle.  As for now, who cares . . . .

Exactly: Magic currently is boring, mainly because of lack of variety. A big step towards adding variety is adding spell resistance instead of defense. A further step would be to bring in resistances to specific elements.

I WANT to have Fire Elementals, that take double damage from water, get healed from fire, and hurt you when you attack with physical.

I WANT those trolls that need to be killed by fire or acid.

I WANT undead and vampires that take double damage from holy, and are immune to physical

What I do NOT want is 100 mobs that differ only in graphics and ATT/DEF.

I agree 100%. that is pretty standard fantasy fare.

RAT

Well even if they don't add in another stat, at least make the enemies resist magic based on a stat other than defence.

I agree with the OP.  Magic should be countered by a Magic Resistance, not armor rating.

I agree with you on that

There's a lot of good stuff in this thread.  Though I don't think anything should be completely physical immune (or at least incredibly rare), or you could end up screwed in unreasonable ways.

And to emphasize / paraphrase what someone else said: if your magical attack is throwing something physical at someone, then armor defense is the correct counter. Otherwise, not so much.

Hmmm, but it would take some time to specify each spell as either physical or magical damage. However, the end result would be a magic system vastly more interesting and immersive than this one. Then all they need to do is fix the atrocious mana regen and the magic system will be okay... for now.

Stardock is aware of these feeling and in some thread (from the last week) said they were looking at separating magic for physical damage as part of a magic system improvement.. Just a FYI for the OP that this idea is already under consideration.. 

Note not a complaint because it already being talked about .. just want the OP to know something like this is in the works...

Good, because this is one of my major gripes about this game. I'm glad Stardock does something to better the game and doesn't just toss it in the gutter and force it's fans to accept what it is.

 Well, after playing for many more hours today/tonight, I got sick of using magic.  Miss, miss, miss,  all because a monster had a high number after it's shield.  I tried using that "Mind Blast" or whatever spell, thinking it might bypass a monsters high def; miss, miss, miss.

It was just way easier to go full melee and take them out that way.   Elemental, War of Melee. . . (till some updates I hope)