The Bum Rush - Or, a guide to how to demolish Ridiculous AIs in 150 turns or less

Right now, due to the ability to create your own sov, it is entirely possible to completely wreck the game via intense specialization. How would you like to conquest the entire world in 150 turns? Own every city in the game?

Take a look.

 

How do you do this? It's simple. MAX. ATTACK. Pretend magic doesn't exist. Forget about it. Don't even research it. The goal is to max out your sov's battling ability in the shortest amount of time possible. To that end, here is my setup.

 

 

Notice how many flaws I'm taking. this is for a reason - All those flaws have to do with magic, heirs, recruitment, and other things that will never come into play because the game is over so quickly.

 

This game was run on a normal size map (ridiculous difficulty map), with the standard number of AIs, all set to Ridiculous individually. More AIs would likely make it easier.

On the first turn, found your city ASAP. Start out getting materials, etc. Once you have a good flow of those going you'll want to move onto maxing out your research and gildar capabilities. Ignore anything that isn't immediately useful. Don't worry about upgrading your food gain, you'll be swimming in it soon enough.

 

Start researching warfare. Send your sov out and have him murder everything in sight, you want to level up as much as possible. -ALWAYS- raise str when leveling. Period. Nothing else is worth it. Note that due to the way my Sov is set up, I can attack and THEN move twice in a single turn. THIS WILL ALLOW YOU TO KITE ALMOST EVERY ENEMY IN THE GAME by attacking and then moving. Abuse it heavily for early EXP gain. Other quick ways to get easy exp include killing a single member of a mutiple unit party and retreating, then attacking again and repeating (you get 50 exp each time) and repeatedly killing defenseless sovreigns inside THEIR BORDERS (not yours, they'll die!!) for free exp over and over.

 

Have your sov start capturing any cities he finds. most likely they'll be empty, unless you have a ton of trouble finding your neighbors. Either way, it'll be easy street. Every time you capture a city, build the latest unit possible from your research to guard the city. As you build momentum, you'll want to build one to take with yourself first, then build a guard as you are leaving. This is because you need some cannon fodder for your sov against the natural guardians of neutral cities, especially if they have real nasty creatures like drakes. Whenever you capture a new city, buy new items for your sov (don't go hammers until you don't need to kite tough enemies anymore), and queue improvements. Focus primarily on researching warfare, but you can grab the first few Quest techs and a few Civilization techs as needed to keep the flow up in the early game.

 

A note on exploring - if you find yourself dead ended, remember that the 5 mana you have is exactly enough for you to cast teleport every few turns. Use this to find new areas to scout or, very late game, to hunt down those pesky fleeing sovs.

 

Early on, DO NOT kill enemy sovs. Let them flee. They will most lilkely build a new city, which they will the leave unguarded for you to capture and add to your empire. If a sov offers you peace, accept it. Then kill them. There's no disadvantage to breaking said peace offers over and over, and this minimizes your own cities' exposure to attacks.

 

Easy peasy! Once you get high enough in research, start adding some real nasty units to your small army. You'll have teched so high, so fast, and have so much output, that you'll bowl over anything in your way in no time. Tada~

 

21,350 views 32 replies
Reply #2 Top

Kinda takes away the fun of the game tho. Proberly fun way to go in multi player but gratz beating the game so early on. One can only hope some changes are made but i really dont think so.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting sprasz, reply 2
Kinda takes away the fun of the game tho. Proberly fun way to go in multi player but gratz beating the game so early on. One can only hope some changes are made but i really dont think so.
End of sprasz's quote

 

I've actually completed the game three times now. The first two were pretty "legit" victories. This time around was just me attempting to see how fast I could overrun the entire world with everything set to insane. I probably could have done it even faster, but I was a bit cautious towards the end and ended up with a hilarious amount of overkill.

Reply #4 Top

Who runs Border Town??

Reply #5 Top

@master blaster you can get very good armor and weapons much faster by researching magic armor/weapons

i used to research warfare as well, but if you only want to get good stuff on your sovereign really quick magic is the way to go, much less techs required.

 

edit: i also choose organized and tracker over the equipment you can just buy a weapon on turn 2 :)

in every game i played i also got a mace or some other good weapons early due to my speed that allowed me to explore the map quicker.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting tesb, reply 5
@master blaster you can get very good armor and weapons much faster by researching magic armor/weapons

i used to research warfare as well, but if you only want to get good stuff on your sovereign really quick magic is the way to go, much less techs required.
End of tesb's quote

 

Definitely sounds worth trying. Although, I'd be concerned about the cost in Crystals. There's no guarantee of finding them early on, and don't all the magic items require them?

Reply #7 Top

the magic equipment only costs crystals on your troops, for the sovereign it is only gold :)

also just conquer a neutral town (this can be done very early) and you have a crystal mine

Reply #8 Top

Quoting tesb, reply 7
the magic equipment only costs crystals on your troops, for the sovereign it is only gold

also just conquer a neutral town (this can be done very early) and you have a crystal mine
End of tesb's quote

 

Ah yes, you're right. How much do they cost? Seems like it might be a bit hard to scrounge up the cash that early unless you're aggressively hunting goodie huts.

Reply #9 Top

Looks like Froggy has an exploit to close when he gets back.  I mean 'close' by making the AIs realise what you are doing and ganging up on the bad guy.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting astrath, reply 9
Looks like Froggy has an exploit to close when he gets back.  I mean 'close' by making the AIs realise what you are doing and ganging up on the bad guy.
End of astrath's quote

Totally agree with you on that. Although, I wonder if they would have been able to stop me by the time they knew what I was doing. I blew out that gate and ate cities like a hurrcane.

I feel like there's a few exploit-ish things here, honestly.

1. Being able to retreat from a battle over and over for free EXP each time.

2. Being able to break peace over and over and over, sometimes just mere turns later, with no real negative impact.

3. Following sovs whose cities you've just stolen for the free cities they pop. Who needs pioneers? 8D

4. Being able to, with starting action points (lv1) kite large groups of enemies around for no damage by using attack - move - move.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting tesb, reply 7
the magic equipment only costs crystals on your troops, for the sovereign it is only gold

also just conquer a neutral town (this can be done very early) and you have a crystal mine
End of tesb's quote

 

I just tried the rush-to-magic-items tactic you suggested, but it wasn't quite workable... I just didn't have the gold to get the equipment, forcing me to rely on outdated stuff for far too long. I suspect that unless you happen to be drowning in gold mines / goodie huts, the warfare path would be a safer ramp-up.

 

It's also worth noting that during this play I saw one of the emperors running around aimlessly for approximately 5 turns before actually founding his city right where he started. What the hell? xD I thought this was supposed to be the hardest AI.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting astrath, reply 9
Looks like Froggy has an exploit to close when he gets back.  I mean 'close' by making the AIs realise what you are doing and ganging up on the bad guy.
End of astrath's quote

The real flaw is the battle system.

Reply #13 Top

Good stuff MOOmANiBE. These kinds of posts are desperately needed to shape the balance of this game.

Reply #14 Top


 

Start researching warfare. Send your sov out and have him murder everything in sight, you want to level up as much as possible. -ALWAYS- raise str when leveling. Period. Nothing else is worth it. Note that due to the way my Sov is set up, I can attack and THEN move twice in a single turn. THIS WILL ALLOW YOU TO KITE ALMOST EVERY ENEMY IN THE GAME by attacking and then moving. Abuse it heavily for early EXP gain. Other quick ways to get easy exp include killing a single member of a mutiple unit party and retreating, then attacking again and repeating (you get 50 exp each time) and repeatedly killing defenseless sovreigns inside THEIR BORDERS (not yours, they'll die!!) for free exp over and over.

 
End of quote

 

So would this strategy be thwarted by simply not allowing moves after attacking?

Reply #15 Top

Being Tarth (with the Great Warrior upgrade) doesn't actually do anything :P It's bugged.

The most simplest thing they could do is make you unable to move after you've initiated an attack on your turn (but you can continue to attack). This makes move-move-attack viable, but not attack-move-move. Attack-move-move requires intelligence to counter since you can't just keep running at them over and over

Reply #16 Top

Well you can't see his setup so he could just be saying that he played ridiculous difficulty with all ridiculous ai players and instead played on easy peasy level of difficulty and only a handful of AI's. I never trust what appears too good to be true.

Reply #17 Top

this tactic is good only cause its too wasy to fight early, ai leaving cities empty helps too much

Reply #18 Top

I use this same approach only I don't use my Sov for early attacks since the equipment prices are way balanced in favor of trained units. Once i am drowning in Gildar (doesn't take long since loot is *everywhere* I gear him up ad then do the rest of your strategy.

 

I just make crazy attack stacks by researching up to "smiting" and getting the Lord Hammer. After that it is game over for everyone at any AI setting.

 

Major balance issues. It isn't just one thing either, the entire "system of systems" is broken right now.

 

Of course Rossanderson48 thinks we don't have the game, or are playing at easy and are all liars, or that EA is paying us to post. Another dynamite "defense" of SD that actually hurts the company dude. Thanks.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 15
Being Tarth (with the Great Warrior upgrade) doesn't actually do anything It's bugged.
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote
Actually, you get the bonus when you are playing a tactical battle, it's just that the bonus doesn't show up when you inspect your units.

Reply #20 Top

Nice post MOOMANiBE.  I like how you included several screenies.  Plus, the devs encourage posts like this so that they can see areas of the game that need improvement or fixing.

Reply #21 Top

Totally works, except I didn't play ridiculous AI, but the 2nd highest difficulty setting (with a bit lower world difficulty, although this should work against this strategy for less money from random encounters).

 

Also I hired several Champions infused them and had them tag along so I still had amazing magical support (casters don't need any equip).

Reply #22 Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 15
Being Tarth (with the Great Warrior upgrade) doesn't actually do anything It's bugged.

The most simplest thing they could do is make you unable to move after you've initiated an attack on your turn (but you can continue to attack). This makes move-move-attack viable, but not attack-move-move. Attack-move-move requires intelligence to counter since you can't just keep running at them over and over
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

Not allowing moving after attacking would definitely prevent kiting, but I feel like it'd take potential tactical depth out of the game.. Most tactics games solve this by giving all units a "basic ranged attack" ala FFT's "Throw Stone". Small damage, but prevents exploitation.

Quoting rossanderson48, reply 16
Well you can't see his setup so he could just be saying that he played ridiculous difficulty with all ridiculous ai players and instead played on easy peasy level of difficulty and only a handful of AI's. I never trust what appears too good to be true.
End of rossanderson48's quote

Why would I go to all this trouble for such a pointless deception? That said, the best way to find out is to try it yourself!  I -did- write an entire guide on how to do it, after all.

Quoting ddd888, reply 17
this tactic is good only cause its too wasy to fight early, ai leaving cities empty helps too much
End of ddd888's quote

Honestly, even if they left some units in there, as long as I find them within the first 15 turns they're boned. My starting sov is just too powerful.

Quoting abr4, reply 21


Also I hired several Champions infused them and had them tag along so I still had amazing magical support (casters don't need any equip).
End of abr4's quote

Interesting idea. I kind of cut out magic entirely for this build in favor of having my starting sov be able to demolish even decent level starting units, but I imagine there's quite a bit of room for refinement. I imagine there are a ton of potential exploits as far as champions are concerned.

Reply #23 Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 15
Being Tarth (with the Great Warrior upgrade) doesn't actually do anything It's bugged.

The most simplest thing they could do is make you unable to move after you've initiated an attack on your turn (but you can continue to attack). This makes move-move-attack viable, but not attack-move-move. Attack-move-move requires intelligence to counter since you can't just keep running at them over and over
End of awuffleablehedgie's quote

Unfortunately, if you couldn't move after attacking you'd simply switch to a bow to kite, it just cuts the melees out of the picture. Really there must be a better solution that works equally well for ranged and melee - like splitting attack and movement speeds in some way, such that faster attack speed from a weapon or level up doesn't have you racing across the battlefield faster too.

Reply #24 Top


Quoting Austinvn, reply 23


Unfortunately, if you couldn't move after attacking you'd simply switch to a bow to kite, it just cuts the melees out of the picture. Really there must be a better solution that works equally well for ranged and melee - like splitting attack and movement speeds in some way, such that faster attack speed from a weapon or level up doesn't have you racing across the battlefield faster too.
End of Austinvn's quote

What about the concept of AoO (attack of opportunity), where the opponent gets a free attack if an enemy unit tries to pass/leave an adjacent tile?

But that an early rush would prove to be devastating like that... impressive. :)

Reply #25 Top

A few points:

1. Morale is currently pointless, Intimidating is wasted points.  Tracker maybe?

2.As noted, the Legendary equipment is very potent for this.  The shield is currently 50 gold for 19 defence and 15 dodge.  The greaves are 185 for 8 defence, no drawback, the cuirass 195 for 12, no drawback, and the helm's 100 for 8, no drawback.  As such, I'd say keep Dex up, not just STR.  You'd be surprised at just how much it screws over early game-they can't touch you because the Legendary stuff's end-game equip.

3. Empire can do this, and indeed in some ways has a better time of it in some aspect.  The key to this whole thing is Combat Speed, and the weapon unlock for Empire gives a mess of weapons and armour, as well as Mounts, which give you +movement speed and combat speed.  100 Gold's a small price to pay.

4.It's not impossible to mix magic in and there are some buffs and enchantments that could turn the tide against tough opponents.  Hell's bells, Giant Strength is a level 1 enchantment and it's +3 to Strength-30% extra damage.  There's also the fact that offence spells actually WORK under Auto-Resolve, and you may end up with it occuring frequently...

5.You want quest tech.  You want strong monsters with lots of gold running around to feed your equipping of champions...Why should your Sovereign have all the fun?  Heck, Janusk has perfect Mage stats and they give him to you for free.  Simply because the Sovereign doesn't wanna cast doesn't mean you can't have others do it.

Biggest issue is simply luck and getting weapons.  Armour's not a issue, but weaponry IS.