PCGamer warning » Forum Post by LucidCon

i agree...they have praised far buggier games...or at least not told people to stay away...i dont know where the hate came from.i agree it has its fair share of issues..but to just chastise a game like that is alittle much....i think it was fueled by frogboys response about people not buying the game...it seems that way..at least they have the respect to wait for some patching before reviewing.

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Maybe next time when almost every beta tester tells them to delay the game, they'll actually listen.

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I think it is because the PCG guys had such high hopes for the game, as their previous posts about it suggest, but were disappointed by the bugs which they've been experiencing (on some people's systems it really can be bad), and so responded a little over-harshly.

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Yeah, I just read this writing. No comment.

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actually I think the review is fair and he states he is going to give them a bit of time before he writes the review.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

It just saddens me that there are players out there with chips on their shoulders or vendettas.

And with that line, your post becomes even less accurate than the article you're complaining about. They may be overstating some of the problems this game faces, but at least they're not falsely ascribing malicious intent to it.

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Man, this is starting to feel like Sacred 2 all over again.

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Exactly, pmaura.

Aprt from that this Review is already being discussed here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391186 .

Having various posts on the same issue doesn't help keeping a goo d overview...

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Quoting blix2006,

reply 1

i agree...they have praised far buggier games...or at least not told people to stay away...i dont know where the hate came from.i agree it has its fair share of issues..but to just chastise a game like that is alittle much....i think it was fueled by fromboys response about people not buying the game...it seems that way..at least they have the respect to wait for some patching before reviewing.

Originally Posted by Dan Lawrence at QT3 - And I agree here....

"I do think its sad, though not at all surprising, in the culture we have today that a senior game developer who was/is willing to talk about his games with us here like a normal human being on QT3 is going to suffer for it. I don't think his remark toward Ben was well judged but in the context of the thread where he was being baited and mocked very disrespectfully it wasn't completely out of left field. Now it is going to lose that context, be stripped of any remaining nuance and become "Stardock CEO says 'Bugs in your copy of the game, piss off ad don't buy our games in future' " as it spreads around the internet.

This is another one of those times when developers are reminded to keep silent outside of official PR mouthpiece statements for fear of them accidentally saying something slightly ill advised in the heat of the moment. When I worked in the industry we were told repeatedly 'Do not talk to the customers on the forums' or we would be in trouble with management. For me that was frustrating, I like talking about games, talking about making games and talking with people who care about the game I am making."

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For when the article was written I absolutely agree with the suggestion of 'holding off'. I tried playing last night and couldn't even progress past a certain point due to the game crashing every couple rounds and just the whole thing coming to a crawl (even on the paper map).

Maybe 1.05 fixes most of my major issues and that's wonderful...but if someone asked me yesterday if they should buy the game that day, I would have also told them to wait until a patch sorts the game out.

That's what PCGamer's job is...to inform readers. Yesterday the game was on sale, and yesterday the game was broken (at least for me and many others). I think the advice is solid, and good thing for everyone is it appears that we don't have to wait long either with Stardock's excellent support.

As far as the 'bugger off' comment goes, yeah it looks to be taken slightly out of comment. But you know what? Asshole or not Ben (whoever that may be) is a paying customer like everyone else. So in a sense telling Ben to basically fuck off an not buy SD's games is a little like telling the same thing to any other unsatisfied paying customers.

With that said I read the forum and he (Ben) was being a total douche bag and going way too far.

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Well I think the game is a bit premature - I think the problem was the gap between Aug and Feb. Unfortunately releasing it this early has quite a few negative consequences. Not 100% sure of the set of consequences releasing it in Feb.

With regards to the game itself; I have many 'complaints' but most of them are fix able with minor patches. The major flaw is tempo. I enjoyed games like king bounty (l/ap) and aow sm (I had hope this would be a combination of aow sm + a touch of civ). The problem is that right now combat is a bit meh; the minor irritations are distracting and motivation is more meh (little things like hunting an opponent to grab the item they have are missing).

As for the PC gamer article ? Well anyone without an internet connection is going to be very sad (upset); and those with a connection are going to whine a bit for the next month or so and I think with some justification.

Anyways I'm hopeful that by Feb the game is much improved but only time will tell

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Quoting Morlark,

reply 7

quoting postIt just saddens me that there are players out there with chips on their shoulders or vendettas.

And with that line, your post becomes even less accurate than the article you're complaining about. They may be overstating some of the problems this game faces, but at least they're not falsely ascribing malicious intent to it.

I think an article titled disastrous release bears to have debatable connotations to it and ultimately is false equating to a malicious vendetta by the writer.

Am I by no means completely happy with Brad's remarks or the state of the game. I just want this pcgamer article to be put in perspective. Brad does say things that rub people the wrong way but should not be included in a warning against the game. The game should stand on its own without writer bias - which this article has.

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So if the game is this screwed up - why didn't I have ANY of these problems mentioned in the review?

How can a game crash "every 10 minutes" for one person but then play for 3 hours and 100 turns without crashing for me?

Tactical battles work just 1 time in 5? Not for me - I've yet to fail loading/playing out a tactical battle.

I don't think I'm super lucky or anything so what's going on? And, yes, this was the "release" version before any patches.

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Well the review isn't saying anything that I haven't seen any number of people say on the forums here. And overall the review is hopefull that eventually the game will be a good one and positive about Stardock being good game designers, so it's clearly not malicious. I don't think the review appears unreasonable at all. I think there are just people who are so emotionally invested in the game that they view any criticism of it as a personal offense.

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While I don't agree with the don't buy statement, I understand why the PC Gamer reviewer made it. His observations are correct and the one concerning the archers is one I saw last night/early this morning that we were discussing in the Elemental chatroom. As for his opinions about Brad, well those are a bit harsh. Brad has always seemed to me to be approachable and interested in everyone's opinion and I think he thought the game was ready to be released. It clearly wasn't ready, so take from that what you will.

I'm sure that Stardock will keep improving Elemental and in the end as a customer that really is all that matters to me, but again I can see where other people (like the reviewer) would disagree because they want the game to be nearly perfect out of the box, which is really what the tone of this review is all about. The reviewer is pissed that it wasn't perfect and that Brad is basically saying that's how (incomplete) software development is done these days. I think this is what led to the reviewers don't purchase this game warning. He wants Brad to admit that it was unfinished and that he is using buyers as a larger beta community to more quickly get the product polished. The reviewer finds this unacceptable and feels stardock should have held release.

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Quoting niteshade6,

reply 15

Well the review isn't saying anything that I haven't seen any number of people say on the forums here. And overall the review is hopefull that eventually the game will be a good one and positive about Stardock being good game designers, so it's clearly not malicious. I don't think the review appears unreasonable at all. I think there are just people who are so emotionally invested in the game that they view any criticism of it as a personal offense.

Steer clear do not buy! Is basically what this guy is saying. And then points to a quote from QT3 which really has no place in this article. He should of just saved all of this for his review. Instead he wants to hurt SD more and spread the QT3 debacle further.

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TBH i was expecting FAR more polish in this launch. Things like a lack of intro subtitles (the voiceover is bad), losing hair in hero editor to an overal lpaucity of ANY tutorial and manual that may as well be TP, did not imspire confidence. The game has a LOT of obvious and silly bugs, I havent had any crashes, but the quality is severaly lacking. It seriously feels like an independent's first launch game rather than something that established studio, like Stardock, has made.

Overall it is a fun little game with SERIOUS potential (not the nustercluck that was MOO3 or Lords of Magic), but it needs quite of bit of bug squashing and testing yet. Stardock needs to really ranp it up or folks wont give it (another) chnace and just shelve it for all the new releases in the pipeline.

RAT

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Quoting Renevent,

reply 11

For when the article was written I absolutely agree with the suggestion of 'holding off'. I tried playing last night and couldn't even progress past a certain point due to the game crashing every couple rounds and just the whole thing coming to a crawl (even on the paper map).

Maybe 1.05 fixes most of my major issues and that's wonderful...but if someone asked me yesterday if they should buy the game that day, I would have also told them to wait until a patch sorts the game out.

That's what PCGamer's job is...to inform readers. Yesterday the game was on sale, and yesterday the game was broken (at least for me and many others). I think the advice is solid, and good thing for everyone is it appears that we don't have to wait long either with Stardock's excellent support.

Oh yeah....but please..stay well away?! What kind of BS is this? The "reviewer" is overreacting.

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Wow, was expecting criticism of good and bad...but did the Stardock CEO really say that? Is he still the CEO?!

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Honestly I think it could have used a few weeks of "finished" beta testing. I'm not really sure what the real push for august was, I mean I respect the decision ... but how much could a February launch rly hurt the game?

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

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Well, he is right to be honest. Certain things can be forgiven, no game is perfect at launch, but some thing cannot be forgiven, in this case the really, really poor performance even on the monster machines. The latest guess is that the game doesn't use the GPU to increase the performance. To me, that is simply embaressing and I can't imagine releasing a game with such 'bug'. The game itself is great but I feel like I'm beta testing the game.

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I'm not reading that whole article. It's hard to fault someone for reviewing the game based on the .99 or 1.01 builds. I'd say the game will still get a lof of early work and the 1.05 build is night and day compared to either of those for me (1.05 is drastically different and better).

You can't really complain about reviews like this when the game was released like it was, IMO, and it's Stardock's own fault.

Reviewers look at the state of the game when they review it, not some mystical potential.

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I agree with everything in the article. This game is way too buggy for release. I bet PCGamer won't be the only game website to say so.

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I completely agree with PCGamer here. In fact, I've recommended to my own friends not to buy the game now (but to wait a few months).

The game is simply not up to the standards that people expect right now. I have complete confidence that Stardock will get it up to acceptable standards in a few months. So I'll come back to it then and tell my friends to do the same.

Frankly I wish that Stardock would stop shipping out products that are in a beta state. It absolutely murdered Demigod (although yes, Stardock was only the publisher there and GPG was pretty bad with that game all around). Its really going to hurt Elemental's long term status IMO, although I'm sure that there will be a lasting community with this game.

I also hate Frogboy's attitude about these things. I think that he has really let his successes with GCII go to his head with some of the stuff that he said about Demigod when that game was failing and with comments like PCGamer linked too. No Frogboy, the current state of the game is NOT good enough for release. When people say this for every game that you have published or done yourselves recently, maybe you should listen to them.

Stardock has built up a good reputation, so I dont think that the shenanigans we have seen on release of a few of their games is hurting them yet. But it will eventually - in fact, I think that the release of whatever game they release next is going to have serious issues because they have really harmed their reputation for games at release lately. I'm a big fan of Stardock and I've already made a mental note to never buy their games near release again because I dont particularily enjoy beta testing.

+1

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I have to say this article seems a little bit harsh to me. I have experienced some bugs on my machine, but the game is playable and fun.

I personally do think more polish and content is in order, but I have been playing on all the publicly released builds and I have not experienced most of the issues the magazine mentions.

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