Tryan1981

Join Date 08/2007

Pre-order/buy at release or later after a few patches

a. has a competent AI; and

b. has any gamebreaking gameplay bugs.

Both are subjective questions to an extent but I would leave it entirely to the dev(s) interpretation. If a dev(s) answer to a. is yes and b. is no, I will pre-order the limited edition. I have great respect for the Stardock devs and would be happy to take their word for it. If otherwise, I will delay my purchase to some time in the future when a properly patched Elemental is available (as I am certain the game will be given the devs record).

Look forward to having some feedback.

elemental

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

There are loads of threads like this so i doubt a dev will answer so i'll answer for you.

1. The A.I is more then competent in the gold version but will also get improved again in the 0day patch. A.I has never been a problem in stardock games so i wouldn't worry about this.

2. Us Beta testers weeded out most of the bugs that we encountered and I expect the team played the hell out of the beta 5 and gold version before they sent it to the reviewers so again i wouldn't worry. The reviews should start coming out soon so you could wait and see what bugs they encounter. But if their are any gamebreaking bugs i imaging they will be fixed a day or two after discovery, stardock don't waste time when it comes to things like this.

Successfully updated karma reason!

astrath

Join Date 04/2006

+28

The AI will be good, Froggie is his own biggest troll when it comes to saying how good it is. As for waiting for patches, sure it will be a better game after a few patches (players of Gal Civ 2 will know what I mean - comparing v2.0 with ToA to v1.0 is just obscene) but it will still be a great game at release.

Successfully updated karma reason!

As Awesome, Open, and Honest as Stardock is, I don't think even They would come out and say "Yes there is a Game Breaking bug that we're aware of and working on." this close to launch. I don't think any game maker on the Planet would do that. Game makers often count on making as much money as they can from the initial release of a title. Once word of mouth or review sites put the word out that a game has "Game Breaking Bugs" customers tend to avoid the game entirely or wait (possibly months) for a patch to come out to fix the bug, and by then the game in question has hit the bargain bin and is on sale for $19.99 .

Of course we all know that won't happen with Elemental as E:WoM will be supported and updated by Stardock for Years to come, but it has happened to many games in the past made by other companies. It's even happened to Big Name Triple A titles made by the big powerhouse devs and to more MMO's than I could possibly name off. No Dev would want Any Kind of bad press this close to the launch of a new game or new IP, no matter how honest and open they are with their player base. That's like committing business suicide.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Honestly, If your mildly interested (or more) I see no reason to wait on purchasing unless it's due to financial considerations. Sure the game 6 months from now might be way better than 4 days from now, but that can be said about almost any game. Truth of the matter is Stardock did a real Beta which isn't common anymore. A lot of people raised issues/concerns because their expectation of the 'beta' would be similar to what other companies call a beta. For instance, I participated in both of Cryptic's Champions Online and Star Trek online Betas and the game they presented was pretty close to what you got on release date. These in truth are more stress tests (server load balancing etc) or simply a perk for pre-ordering.

Unlike Cryptic, Stardock really took advantage of the player base and beta testing process. They listened to many ideas, concerns or issues that confused players. So the version you'll see on Tuesday should be a pretty solid game, especially single player. So most of the concerns from Beta should be brushed aside.

I believe Brad has spent the past week or two solely on the AI for this game and if I recall, he made a comment to the effect of not being happy with the AI until it can beat stomp you on Normal difficulty. Again the AI 3-6 months from now will likely be different, but you should have an enjoyable experience at release.

Hope this helps and good luck with your decision.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Raven X,

reply 3

As Awesome, Open, and Honest as Stardock is, I don't think even They would come out and say "Yes there is a Game Breaking bug that we're aware of and working on."

That's because if there were a game breaking bug I suspect we'd be waiting for the next launch window. Obviously you can't rule out exotic hardware configurations or OEM fiddling in OS's et al, but at least you can usually rely on Stardock to fix those rather than simply writing them off as an insignificant portion of the player base.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If there are any bugs you can expect them to be fixed quickly. Stardock is not above releasing a few small patches in the first couple weeks of a release. One only need to look at their history to see this so no worries. If you aren't quite sure you'll actually like the game a demo will come out shortly after release, probably a month or so and you can try that first.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Thanks all for the comments. Its definitely reassuring to know that a large number of gamers were part of the beta process. We the lazy owe you a debt of gratitude.

That being said, the reason why the question was directed to the devs was because of my experience with Paradox Interactive's latest release Victoria II. That was another strat that I was looking forward to for a while and one that I had also contemplated buying at release (Paradox being the other set of devs that I have alot of respect for). As luck would have it, I was unusually busy at work the week before Vic II was released and completely forgot to pre-order. That turned out to be the right decision. Based on my limited time with the demo (only started today) and what I've been reading on their forums, there are several gamebreaking gameplay bugs that I cannot believe the betas failed to pick up. Paradox, like Stardock, has a great history of patching their games to perfection but I simply cannot accept the release of a game that still had such glaring problems.

My only hope is that Elemental does not head the same way. It would truly be a tragedy (for me anyway) if the two games that I've been looking forward to this year are not playable until the next. The upside to the Vic II debacle is that since I did not get that, its a lot easier (financially anyway) to pre-order Elemental. I'm still on the cusp though so any input would be appreciated. Hopefully a review would be available in the next 24 hours to decide the matter (or a dev weighing in).

Successfully updated karma reason!

If you aren't sure then there's nothing wrong with waiting a bit and reading the reviews before buying. I have confidence that it won't be horribly buggy or anything, but I have far less confidence about the AI given the relative lack of testing it has received. But because Stardock has a good reputation in that area, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that it will be at least passable. But on the flip side even the best companies have had cases where they have let me down on a game, particularly when they are rushed on release (which Stardock definitely is because they have to get their game out before summer is over).

So anyway I'm likely to buy it on release, but I'm keeping my hopes in check for now. I hope to be pleasantry surprised by how good the AI is.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Lets be honest while beta fleshes out a lot of bugs you can almost never get them all because the player base is pretty small compared to release. I am just glad stardock is back in the strategy field and away from the Dota field. Hopefully this game is the sorry for the money I spent on demigod.

Successfully updated karma reason!

point of clarification: stardock didn't develop demigod, they only published it. they did, however, go out of their way to fix it after its initial developers, GPG, had moved on.

Stardock is probably the best in the business when it comes to post-release support. They game will be good at release, but your right, they won't have gotten all the bugs. In my mind, tha'ts no reason to delay purchase, all games have bugs at release, but not all developers are as good about squishing them.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2317

When in doubt, wait for the demo. That's what I do. $50 is too much to spend if you're not sure IMO.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting ,

quoting post

I was not in the beta but have been following the progress of Elemental for months now. It seemed to me that at the close of the beta (based solely on what I read on this forum), there were still a number of problems that were not resolved. For me, the only one that mattered was the weak AI. I understand from reading the dev journals that since the end of the beta, alot of attention has been given to the AI. My question to the devs is accordingly whether the release Elemental:

a. has a competent AI; and

b. has any gamebreaking gameplay bugs.

Both are subjective questions to an extent but I would leave it entirely to the dev(s) interpretation. If a dev(s) answer to a. is yes and b. is no, I will pre-order the limited edition. I have great respect for the Stardock devs and would be happy to take their word for it. If otherwise, I will delay my purchase to some time in the future when a properly patched Elemental is available (as I am certain the game will be given the devs record).

Look forward to having some feedback.

I typically play CIV IV on Prince or so difficulty, I rarely play Gal Civ: Arnor on higher than normal or one or two notches up. I have no worries about the AI, and if its not (yet) challenging on normal the upped difficulties will be.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I would suggest waiting couple weeks. Last stage of beta still regularly crashed on me and had almost all balance elements as placeholders. Now Frog promising all of this fixed before the release, and they have demonstrated amazing progress during Beta, but why risk jading yourself to what will end up great/classic game in a couple of patches?

With this being said, I pre-ordered fairly early to participate in Beta. I might not end up playing Elemental until it is up to my standards of stability/playability (and I will be a lot less forgiving when it goes live) but I'd still put money down to support their DRM-free approach to releasing games.

Successfully updated karma reason!

As far as complaints of an unsatisfactory AI go... I've only noticed such complaints from the guy who makes the AI. Considering how other AI by the same dude turned out (especially GalCivII), I think it's safe to say that what he isn't satisfied with will nonetheless be good enough for the average gamer, at least until you get sufficiently skilled in the game that the AI no longer provides sufficient challenge, at which point a patch will likely have improved the AI even further.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 11

When in doubt, wait for the demo. That's what I do. $50 is too much to spend if you're not sure IMO.

Your honesty is a really refreshing change Frogboy. I will do that but I am hoping that the release will be great so I can get it early.

All the best with it!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Ahem... No one is mentioning the prestige that comes with the dragon figure? Or the cloth map? I still have all my cloth maps from the Ultima series. Ah, good times...

But yeah, the game will only improve with future updates and support which should be available quickly. I'm counting on just spending the first few days getting the feel of the game down, exploring the factions and playing with the modding tools. By the time I'm ready for a huge random map, full-on-campaign there should be an update well on its way.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Fading_Suns,

reply 16

Ahem... No one is mentioning the prestige that comes with the dragon figure? Or the cloth map? I still have all my cloth maps from the Ultima series. Ah, good times...

But yeah, the game will only improve with future updates and support which should be available quickly. I'm counting on just spending the first few days getting the feel of the game down, exploring the factions and playing with the modding tools. By the time I'm ready for a huge random map, full-on-campaign there should be an update well on its way.

All I read was "blah blah blah cloth map blah blah."

Yes. Ultima indeed. I yearn for the map. It haunts my dreams.

"Avatar! Know that Britania has entered a new age of enlightentment! Know that the time has finally come for the one true lord of Britania to take his place as the head of his people. Under my reign Britania will flourish, and the people will rejoice! And pay homage to thier new... Guardian!"

Successfully updated karma reason!