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Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more

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Elemental: No Copy Protection, Activation, LAN and more

from JoeUser Forums

There’s been a lot of discussion on these kinds of topics on recent games and I thought I’d give you our perspective on it.

No Copy Protection

Elemental, out of the box, like all of Stardock’s other games, has no copy protection whatsoever.  However, you obviously need Internet access to get updates.  But then, why should this be necessary?

Because Elemental, unlike our previous games, has really been designed to be a game that people can play for decades, this is something that has concerned us. Because we want to encourage people to have the latest version but at the same time, we are aware that some people are worried that 10 years from now, they won’t be able to get the “better” version.

So here is what we’re going to start doing on our developed titles: We’re going to start making archival DVD versions of the game that can be sent to customers.  We already do this with Object Desktop (our most popular non-game product).  This archival version would have no copy protection whatsoever. It would just be a DVD you can put into your machine.

So starting in October, what we will do is make archival DVD editions of our games starting with Galactic Civilizations II: Ultimate Edition and Elemental.  Roughly every year or so, if there have been updates, we’ll create a new archival version of the game that people can have sent to them (it’ll just be a DVD).

LAN Games

There’s been a lot of questions of how someone would play Elemental on their LAN with their friends.  Here’s my suggested way to do it with minimum hassle.

#1 You’ll need to install Impulse on the machines that will be playing the game. But that’s all. Just install and go to step 2.

#2 Go to http://anywhere.impulsedriven.com which is the web interface to Impulse. From here, you would download the web package of Elemental. As long as Impulse is installed on the machine, you can install the game.

#3 When you install, type in your serial #. If it’s on a LAN, just use your single DVD key, Impulse::Reactor’s GOO uses smart activation (i.e. it doesn’t have a “activation limit” type system) so you can just install it on the various machines on your LAN.

#4 When your friends come over to play, they will need, once in the game, to logon with their own accounts (so they or someone will have to provide them with a serial # to attach to their account but they can use it at your LAN in game).  This is because on day 0, the data from the game is handled by our servers (this way, when we update the game data for balancing players don’t have to update their game which would be a real hassle for LAN players).  Eventually we plan to release custom servers so that players can make their own stuff but we won’t have that ready at release.

1,402,563 views 434 replies
Reply #326 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 319



Quoting Luckmann,
reply 306
As someone who didn't pre-order until it was said that the game would have LAN-support as opposed to the "Stardock servers only" that had been discussed prior to that point, I feel nothing short of cheated. I genuinely thought Stardock was different.

Turns out I was wrong. Would that I could get my money back. I now see what the pre-order-and-get-beta scheme is all about.




Yeah, damn shame. Stuff like that and the gamer's bill of rights are good marketing, but that's it.  I wanted to believe otherwise too.

Live and learn, I suppose.
End of Tridus's quote

Oh, the melodrama! You guys should star on a soap opera.

Reply #327 from Elemental Forums Top

"Oh, the melodrama! You guys should star on a soap opera."
End of quote

Do you mean this isn't a Soap Opera? Damn it all. It was getting a bit repetitive but that always happens in these types of shows.

Some one got jilted, they take out the frustrations, weep all over their friends shoulders cause they let them down.

The only thing they never do is let that Bone go...

Gaming is so cruel, I wonder why anyone even bothers with it. Especially Beta's. ;)

 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #328 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 317

Quoting kryo, reply 286
Lack of your preferred features does not make the game incomplete or unfinished. It has what we planned for it to have and does what we planned for it to do at launch. The way it is now is the way it's been planned for at least a couple of months now.
It's interesting how nobody mentioned it to the rest of us a couple months ago, then. I've posted the various quotes in this thread from Brad showing what he said MP would have. It doesn't have any of that. Perhaps it's "finished" in the sense that you don't want to work on it anymore, but not in the sense that it's anything resembling release-worthy.


You can argue that priorities were set and timelines shifted around re: pre/post-release compared to what was discussed early on or midway through the beta, but given the scope and scale of changes to every one of the game's major subsystems in that same span of time, it's one of the smaller changes between initial and final plans.

 

From Brad, June 3 journal:


Q: I think Elemental should have <insert cool wizbang feature>, will you delay the game to put that in?
A: No.

Q: But I thought you said you wouldn’t release the game until it was what you wanted?

A: Yes. But we’re not going to delay the game to put in new features. We’re open to doing lots of things after release.

 
So... mods are a cool wizbang feature now? Random maps are a wizbang feature? Actual LAN support is a wizbang feature? If the talked about extra modes are missing, we'll add those to the list too (and at this point there's no reason to believe they made it in without confirmation). Hell, customizing your faction is a wizbang feature? That requires the modding tools and won't work in MP, but it's a pretty basic SP thing. "Wizbang" feature can't be used to simply describe everything you cut out of MP to make the release date, not when it's also a core advertised feature.

These aren't things that someone just thought up out of nowhere, they're all things Brad talked about and in some cases flat out stated would be in the game. They're not in the game. There's no way to know when or if they will be in the game. Hell, modding is a core and much hyped thing.

Changing the feature list and not telling anybody about it for two months doesn't make it alright. You guys broke your own bill of rights, and now you're trying to pretend you didn't by downplaying into total irrelevance a feature that you used to say would at least get enough attention to be useful.
End of Tridus's quote

This is the reason developers don't talk to consumers. Yes, some of these features were discussed, but I don't ever remember any promises for multiplayer. In fact, I remember specific and repeated statements that mutliplayer is in no way the focus for this game and if things needed to be cut it would be in multiplayer not single player.

Reply #329 from Elemental Forums Top

I live with my friends (long story, not germane to discussion).

 

We own three copies of Civilization IV, one for each PC, and often play against each other on the LAN. 

 

If we want to do the same for Elemental, we should do the same. I have a pre-order, so we will have at least one copy in house--mine.

 

In order for me to get them to play against me, I just need to convince them to get copies of their own, probably via letting them try it on my computer.  The EULA suggests that I shouldn't install the game on their PCs (since I don't own those PCs) so they can try SP, although Stardock would never know that I did that.

 

But, to be asked to pony up money so we can all play multiplayer??  Yes, that's fair. And if I can't sell them on the SP--then well, they don't buy Elemental, and we won't play MP. 

 

Thus, its in Stardock's best interest to make a strong SP game, first and foremost, to drive the multiplayer sales. I applaud Brad's efforts to do so.

 

Do people here really want to play multiplayer first and SP second or not at all???

 

Reply #330 from Elemental Forums Top

Let me preface my comments by saying that I don't have a problem with how Stardock chooses to protect their game from pirates. I'm also well aware that if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.

I think a lot of these discussions about LAN and copy protection end up being kind of odd because people don't come out and say what they really want, instead arguing for what they really want by odd proxy arguments that strain credulity. So, I'd like to come out and state my wishes, fully recognizing that no one is obligated to read them, more less fulfill them.

I wish I could play multiplayer Elemental with my kids in my own home on the computers physically located in my home over our LAN without having to buy two copies of the game. My kids don't play a lot of computer games, but when they do, we play together. I don't have to buy two copies of any of our Wii games for us to sit and play together. Likewise, some games I own such as Starcraft, HoMM 3, Sins of a Solar Empire don't enforce that I own two copies of the game to play with my daughter. If I play a physical game with my kids, such as Uno, Risk, Sorry, I only need one copy of the game.

I liked HoMM3's system for this the best, where you could play over a LAN with one physical disk, but there had to be one disk and the machines that didn't have the disk in the drive could only join multiplayer games, not start single player games. In my opinion, this worked like free advertising for the game because you could invite friends over to play, and then they would go buy copies of their own to play the single player at home.

I'd love to see a similar system that lets you play with friends who don't own the game at a single physical location, but doesn't let you give the game away to others for single-player purposes. The way you've set up the archival DVD system, the opposite is true, which seems to make less business sense to me. Again, it's Stardock's game and those who don't like the way they do things are free not to buy it.

Reply #331 from Stardock Forums Top

You know, this is like the complete opposite argument that was made against sins....Back then everyone was raging because "oh no! there's no campaign mode!  Stardock should focus more on the single player experience!" Well, guess what, now we have a campaign......

Reply #332 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Anubis208-RG, reply 331
You know, this is like the complete opposite argument that was made against sins....Back then everyone was raging because "oh no! there's no campaign mode!  Stardock should focus more on the single player experience!" Well, guess what, now we have a campaign......
End of Anubis208-RG's quote

 

People like to complain for the sake of complaining.  It is kind of sad, but hey, it is their loss.  I'll be enjoying Elemental enough for several people!

Reply #333 from Elemental Forums Top

@Spitz - Yeah, the system you describe is the one I would like, as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm sure it must provide some advertising value, and it isn't giving away too much game. If someone is only going to play it on a LAN with friends, they probably weren't going to buy it anyway right?

Reply #334 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Anubis208-RG, reply 331
You know, this is like the complete opposite argument that was made against sins....Back then everyone was raging because "oh no! there's no campaign mode!  Stardock should focus more on the single player experience!" Well, guess what, now we have a campaign......
End of Anubis208-RG's quote

Different set of people. :)

Reply #335 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nesrie, reply 314

Oh it's been a a handful of years now, but when I was at college, I worked at a deli in a grocery store. The manager always knew when someone came snooping around. I am pretty sure he got a call which was a heads up. All I can say if you walk up to a deli counter and they give you a blank look as to how long that food has been out, don't buy it!

Heh, I take it you work for the health department?
End of Nesrie's quote

Ahh, no. I was thinking of a different Health Department. Like where poor people like me try to get financial aid. Sorry darlin, my confusion.

Quoting kochujang, reply 316

What they ALSO (goddamn RavenX) said is this:
End of kochujang's quote

Huh? What did I do now? :P I didn't say any of those two things from your quote :P.

Reply #336 from Elemental Forums Top

I've been following this thread since the beginning, and I just have to comment.  I made this account to do so, since I've never posted here before, or purchased a Stardock game.  Elemental will be my first, and nothing said in this thread has changed my mind on that.

The reason I've been keeping up with this thread so closely is that the complaints that appeared in the beginning are all close to my heart, and many good points were brought up.  Sadly, it seems things have spiraled completely out of control.  All parties are guilty here.  Personal insults don't belong in a reasonable discussion.  One side has accused the other of being pirates or supporting them.  The other side pulled out the Gamer's Bill of Rights where it was completely unnecessary and unfair.  Brad himself has dodged the questions.

In the end, I think there were a lot of problems with communication in this thread, and probably in the community in general.  That's was likely our biggest enemy.  Maybe certain comments or terms used were misleading.  I wanted to contribute to the discussion, but I've had enough at this point.  I don't like to see Brad upset, or fans of this game lowering themselves to the level of insulting each other, or dismissing legitimate issues as childish.  I haven't been following Stardock for long, but I respect Brad, the company, and anyone who is a fan of theirs.

I may mourn the loss of certain features, but I don't intend to cancel my preorder.  This game is still shaping up to be great, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.  For the future, who knows what the possibilities are.  Let's wait and find out.

...can't we all just be friends?

Reply #337 from Elemental Forums Top

I have to agree with 1492 above.  As a child of a broken home this brings back too many memories.  I can't stand listening to people I love fight.  I'm a unabashed Stardock apologist, but I understood the other side as well.  I'll be under my bed sucking my thumb, when one of you is ready to bring me to get ice cream, you'll know where to find me.

 

 

Reply #338 from Elemental Forums Top

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543

Reply #339 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't see an ice cream emoticon here, but you can have a snowman? :snowman:

 

Well guys, this was a painful thread. No question. But I think it was good, in the long run. Everybody got their points heard and responded to. Nobody's going to walk away saying "we were ignored".

I've been popping up in other threads talking about other things, and I'd encourage everybody else to do the same. The single player side of the game is looking pretty good, and we got our MP issues out there. I don't think there's much left to discuss on this issue, so lets go focus on release instead. :)

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Reply #340 from Elemental Forums Top

Hopefully, this will be a moot point sometime in the near future when custom servers are available.   I agree, can we go back to the "we all love each other" forums that we used to have? :inlove:

Reply #341 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AccountNumber1492, reply 336
The other side pulled out the Gamer's Bill of Rights where it was completely unnecessary and unfair. 
End of AccountNumber1492's quote

 

Erm ... while I agree with most of your points (and they echo some points I made a few pages ago), I think that bringing out the Gamer's Bill of Rights is completed justified.  Frogboy wrote it. 

Reply #342 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kochujang, reply 308
You are wrong, in this case. There will be custom servers available, but probably not on day 0.
End of kochujang's quote
I'm not wrong at all. Re-read what I said.

"In a future patch" is not what was said during the previous discussions on LAN support or at the time of my pre-order.

Quoting Tridus, reply 315
[...]

We've asked for a timetable and a list of what's actually in MP at release, and gotten nothing. There is exactly zero committment to do anything, and a vague promise to maybe look at it again later if usage warrants... which it won't, since nobody will play MP in such a half-assed implementation once Civ 5's full implementation is an option.
End of Tridus's quote
I find it interesting how anyone can decide if usage warrants it, when you can't measure the usage of LAN, when you can't use LAN.

Reply #343 from Elemental Forums Top

My god, stardock, you continue to amaze me with your outstanding PC support. I bought the digital/physical bundle of demigod and will be buying this game on day 1.

 

As someone who does not play games online and has a terrible internet connection the updated physical version is immensely appealing to me.

 

It is a shame that the same is not possible with demigod....unless I am mistaken and there is some way to install and patch the game fully offline.

 

The inclusion of that unprecedented feature would be my absolute most niche wish that I though I alone would hope for but it's just yet another big tick in the list of reasons why I will continue to support stardock.

 

No copy protection is also a godsend. I refuse to buy steam games or retail games requiring steam because of the need for online activation. Like you mentioned, I like longevity in my games and I will be enjoying it for many years to come.

Reply #344 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting psychoravin, reply 127



Quoting NTJedi,
reply 115



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 69
First, 99.9% of users of this game are going to play it single player only.  


Do you even READ your own polls !! Gosh Darn last I saw on the developer journals the polls showed 10% wanting multiplayer not the 0.1% in your imagination.  I remember the same multiplayer pains from Galactic Civilization_2 where 33% voted MULTIPLAYER from YOUR poll on YOUR FORUMS, but it was ignored and today those Galactic Civilization_2(SP_ONLY) forums are as dead as an asteroid in space.  Your dislike and "almost" hatred for multiplayer has blinded your vision of the truth and pure facts.

IF you ever desire to create a game where friends and family will praise it on the same levels as Monopoly or Civilization or whatever then you need to make multiplayer simple and inexpensive.  Take a glance at the original DIABLO... did they require multiplayer to have multiple serial#'s, a "reliable" internet service provider and logged into their corporate servers just to play multiplayer???  NO.  Anyone could play as the warrior on other computers and those wanting to play the other two classes were then expected to buy the game.  I came from a family where I was the 8th brother with 6 sisters... so I definitely feel annoyed your design does not consider the middle class and lower class families.  





Sorry pal but even Polls can be skewed. People can make 100's of online persona and skew any poll that doesn't allow just one vote per IP address and even a good hacker can get through those. Common knowledge is about 2% of consumers of primary single player games will in fact partake of multiplayer and of that 2% only a handful will play it beyond the first month. Multiplayer is for dweebs anyway just trying to show off their Epeens.
End of psychoravin's quote

 

Your right polls can be skewed. But your wrong about the common knowledge statistics that you just pulled out of your a$$ to suport your argument. You see Comon Knowledge is about 80% of consumers of primary single player games will in fact partake in Multiplayer. And of those 80% only 60% will play beyond the first month. Now see how I pulled those statics out of my a$$? Now from the gamers that I have known and spoken to those numbers I just pulled out of my a$$ is about right, 80% of them do play both SP and MP and about 60% stay with the game after a month.

Now to address your last childish comment. I primaryly play SP but I also like MP play as well...Why you may ask?  Because MP is usally more challanging than SP at least until AI can become as good as a human.  The reason most of us play MP is for the increase challange level. Just like the reason you don't like MP is because you can't handle the challange that another human can give that the AI can't. Now yes there are people that will gloat but so what just ignore them. And if your too 'thin skin" to ignore them then maybe you should only stick to SP.

Reply #345 from Stardock Forums Top

But, to be asked to pony up money so we can all play multiplayer??  Yes, that's fair. And if I can't sell them on the SP--then well, they don't buy Elemental, and we won't play MP. 

End of quote

Melodrama QUEENIES everywhere. Nobody cares if you don't buy elemental and most especially if you don't get to play multiplayer. This is a game for the single solo player experience. The multiplayer element was just thrown in for some extra income should it come but not necessary for the game to be a success if nobody buys it for the multiplayer experience. I just laugh at the few multiplayer whiners. Same names different faces sort of thing. For once you aren't going to take over a game for your benefit and ruin it like you have so many others like Age of Wonders:SM. Hurrah for Stardock et al. Hip Hip HURRAH. HIP HIP HURRAH. HIP HIP HURRAHAHAHAHAHAAH

 

Just like the reason you don't like MP is because you can't handle the challange that another human can give that the AI can't.
End of quote

Well I see you show your ignorance again. It's not because of the challenge I've never been beaten by a human opponent in a FAIR game it's the 90% of you that CHEAT when you're losing or just outright CHEAT to win. I used to play Age of Empires online and the Kohan series and I never saw so much cheating in my life as in those two games. That's when I decided then and there multiplayer is for KIDS and COWARDS and CHEATERS only. So, you go right on with your friends your cheating coward lying friends I could care less because I know Elemental is going to be the GAME I WANT not the game YOU WANT. hardy har har har.

Reply #346 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AccountNumber1492, reply 336
I've been following this thread since the beginning, and I just have to comment.  I made this account to do so, since I've never posted here before, or purchased a Stardock game.  Elemental will be my first, and nothing said in this thread has changed my mind on that.

The reason I've been keeping up with this thread so closely is that the complaints that appeared in the beginning are all close to my heart, and many good points were brought up.  Sadly, it seems things have spiraled completely out of control.  All parties are guilty here.  Personal insults don't belong in a reasonable discussion.  One side has accused the other of being pirates or supporting them.  The other side pulled out the Gamer's Bill of Rights where it was completely unnecessary and unfair.  Brad himself has dodged the questions.

In the end, I think there were a lot of problems with communication in this thread, and probably in the community in general.  That's was likely our biggest enemy.  Maybe certain comments or terms used were misleading.  I wanted to contribute to the discussion, but I've had enough at this point.  I don't like to see Brad upset, or fans of this game lowering themselves to the level of insulting each other, or dismissing legitimate issues as childish.  I haven't been following Stardock for long, but I respect Brad, the company, and anyone who is a fan of theirs.

I may mourn the loss of certain features, but I don't intend to cancel my preorder.  This game is still shaping up to be great, and I can't wait to get my hands on it.  For the future, who knows what the possibilities are.  Let's wait and find out.

...can't we all just be friends?
End of AccountNumber1492's quote

Well said mate! I wanted to contribute to the discussion as well, but I changed my mind, becauase I've had enough of this as well.

Reply #347 from Stardock Forums Top

This game will reach the sales figures of Galactic Civilization II because it is a great game with a great ai and fun and those that really care about Stardock and future games from them will buy it just like the Paradox fanboys buy all their games and the Creative Assembly fanboys do the same. None of these multiplayer dweebs are going to change anything or force Stardock to comply on anything in the form of MP because it's just not required or needed for this game to be a success (they don't need their sales or their money it's just extra icing on the cake as Brad has already said they broke even with the PREORDERS alone hahahaha).

Besides if there weren't so many cheap bassturds out there they wouldn't have any problems with this issue anyway. They want to be able to play the game from ONE COPY of it and share it around and stick Stardock without any profits. Good for Stardock don't give them a damn thing.

Reply #348 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sareln, reply 133
Monopoly might take a while, depending upon the size and age of your family I'd be more inclined towards quicker games, perhaps something like Settlers of Catan or Robo Rally?
End of Sareln's quote

Actully Risk would be good. The LOTR Risk game is very fun and there is a quick version as well.

Reply #349 from Elemental Forums Top

Unless I am mistaken, Elemental is a flagship for Impulse::Reactor features that want to compete against Steamworks demonstrating that a viable option to Steamworks exists. And I guess THAT is the primary focus for MP in Elemental.

Reply #350 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Polynomial, reply 6

Quoting Nesrie, reply 5
Quoting Polynomial, reply 2Archival DVDs? Really, Frogboy? Is there reeeaaally that much demand for patches on DVDs?

I think this is awesome, and yes there is. I want to be able to have access to the game, as Stardock intended it to be played, long after Stardock is gone (if that happens of course, it might not).

Great new, and thank you.
No, there is no demand for patches on DVDs. Its for the few crazy types of people who have issues with the new crazy digital download era. Stardock is not going anywhere. Their primary business model is not even in video games.
End of Polynomial's quote

I disagree, and I suppose I fit nicely into your category of "crazy types" who would appreciate this feature they are offering. In life, change is the only constant, and anything can and will happen. I have an extensive library of games, some dating back to the days when DOS was king and you had to use the little paper wheel every so often to continue playing. Some I am able to still play, others I no longer can. The internet and its varying speed is not available to everyone at all times, and I can appreciate a game company taking the initiative to insure that I am able to use and enjoy a product I payed for. I have many fond memories of playing Master of Magic, and this game recently caught my attention because of its similarities to it. The stance Stardock has chosen concerning LAN, copy protection, the toolset, and even the archival DVD are just icing on the cake, and make me glad to be able support them while doing something I enjoy.