EU Price

It's simply the USD price converted at the going rate. There is no regional pricing on the game for Europe.

Yes, I know. And that's exactly the problem.

Big labels keeps price high in digital distribution, because they protect other distribution channels -- shops, local distributors, etc. What's your excuse? There is no box distribution in Europe. With CiV for instance I have a choice: pay 49 euro for download in Steam, DD, Impulse, GG or pay 110 PLN (about 28 euro) and get a box in a local store. That's fair.

Another example: l4d2 from Valve. In steam store I can buy it for 22 Euro (Poland and other countries in Central Europe). In Western Europe customer pays 30 euro, in US -- 30 $. That's fair.

Here I don't have a choice. There's no box version, thers no price adjustment. So -- for now there's no buy from me. I see no reason to pay 30% more than for other brand new games. Sorry.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not QQ or something. It's your business and I'm just a one customer. But you say a lot about being better, more fair than other, big companies. I just don't see it.

Still -- good job with Elemental. I will surely buy it, when price will be fair.

Everybody pays the same price--it doesn't get any fairer than that. If it were only $30 there, then people would ask why they must pay more here. It's the same game no matter where you buy it or how, so it's the same price too. A box is just a medium.

Saying it's fair to pay 22 in Poland and 30 in Western Europe is quite mind-boggling. Why does it have to be more expensive in Germany than in Poland? And how could that be fair? It's just milking German, French, etc. because they have more monehy to spend in general. Stardock's pricing of one price everywhere is the fairest one. Now the price may be too much for you, but that's another issue.

becouse in germany the ppl earn 3x more

i remember guild wars sold here in Serbia nearly 50% cheaper then in Germany alot of ppl i know bought it because of the cheap price

I don't want to write about global and local economies, purchasing power of money, average income, relative price, etc. So I only write this: In Poland Elemental is very expensive in comparison with other new games. On top of that the price (in relation to average income) is higher than in USA. Do You really think it's fair? Well, I think that in Poland Elemental is not commercialy viable.

As a customer I can decide where my money goes. Competition is big. My 30 Euro I'll spend on CiV preorder, and Elemental I'll buy in a couple of months, on some sale -- just like GalCiv2.

Steam understands differences between regions better than Impulse. Of course big companies keep AAA prices on the same level, but games from Valve have prices comparable with other games in Poland. That's the reason I have 30 games on Steam, and only 2 on Impulse. (They have other downsides though.) Still, that's my opinion, voice of one customer. I don't know how many people think alike and made their choices similiar to mine.

I don't expect you to change price policy. I just give you some argument why sales in Poland are smaller that it could be. After all I really like your games and distribution model. But price way higher than MW2 and other AAA titles is a little dissapointing. Especially from a small, independent and innovative studio. But it's your choice. I'll make mine.

LDiCesare -- Just like you said: because they have more money to spend in general. That's the difference. I pay for my games and I could buy Elemental with this price. But I won't. Because the price in comparision with other games is too high. When I'm writing about fair price I don't think of universal justice or something like that. It's just question of supply and demand, basic economy.

I prefer the Impulse version better. Here in Denmark we always end up paying a lot more than other countries - partly due to a 25% sales tax, but often also to artificially inflated prices.

But then again as you said, both systems has downsides. I preordered the limited edition + box, and I have paid about 115 dolllars for it, shipping included. And if I'm unlucky, customs will grab my package, and I'll pay 25% + handling fee of 30 dollars

yea the so called justice system

Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but I have to put that a little bit into perspective regarding "fairness":

Yes, ppl in Germany earn 3x more, but they also pay 3x more for energy, rent, food etc. The actual earnings in Germany have been stagnant, in some economic fields even dropped during the course of the last decade. That is one of the main reasons why the german economy could maintain its competitiveness, because of very modest salary expectations while the costs and prices were constantly increasing. If you want to earn the big money in Europe you have to go to Britain, Scandinavia, Switzerland, Austria but certainly not Germany. Not anymore.

I just don't see it...why should countries with more money pay more for the same game?  I mean if they lowered the cost for Poland say, so that they are paying less then say a person in canada, because they make less money overall that seems ludicrus. 

If a game is available on both Steam and Impulse it seems to be always cheaper on Impulse for me. Steam converts $49 to €49, while Impulse converts it by using the correct exchange rates.

Impulse need to have more titles available outside the US though. It is not very fun to find a cool game and then get "not available in your region".

Civ 5 is £25 ($39) in England and Elementals download was £33 ($51) when i pre-ordered then i paid £25 for the Limited edition upgrade and P&P thats £58! Thats the most i have ever spent on a game in my life. But my rational was I liked the beta, i love the lore i've seen so far and i have played and loved Gal Civ 1 & 2, Sins and Demigod. Plus i brought Destiny Embers which is £10 ($15) over here. My total was like £68 which is $106 so i see how people who maybe hard up for cash may just want to settle for Civ 5, Yeah i said settle   .

I'm sure only hard core TBS fans and Stardock fans will get Elemental in England, £33 is alot of money for a pc game, especialy if its just a digital download. The Box version shipping cost is like £45 which is more then console games cost over here.

haha you think that is bad..

In NZ we pay equivalent of 220 PLN ($100 NZD/$70 USD) for a new release title at birck and mortar store.  If we are lucky we can buy off Steam/Impulse for USD price which is much fairer,  many titles now having regional pricing though so we can't escape the no lube reaming.  That is why I don't buy Civilization V,  they charge me an extra US$20 (compared to US price) just because I live in NZ.  We have no tax for this item and it is digital download so freight charges are irrelevant, it is just because they know we are used to get ripped off and with these new cheap way for them to distribute why should they not make even more off us instead of give use fairer price??

Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.

~ Pubilius Syrus, Maxim 847

In theory, the seller sets price(s) which makes him the most profit or value. Perhaps a particular seller values market penetration over pure money, so he is willing to reduce the price so that a greater number of units are sold.

With region based prices, the established price takes into account only the people of that country or region. Region pricing almost certainly advantages the seller and people with less purchasing power, since the seller can make maximum profits where they are possible, and still make some profit in other markets, which might not sell sufficient units for profitability at the same price as another market.

With a currency-translated world price, the established price encompasses everyone with an internet connection.  The seller is no longer able to both sell to the smaller market while maximizing his return in the more valuable market - instead, he has to balance his price into a new equilibrium for both markets.

Neither of these two situations quite describe the situation which Elemental and Stardock face however, because they are trying to offer a single price to a world-market while others are offering region controlled prices for the same type of good.  It also means that they naturally cannot work within the different price-fixing standards of each particular market.  Since they are also offering Elemental at retail, they are stuck with the constraints put upon them by the retail markets they are participating in.

With all that said, I applaud Stardock's position on regional pricing.  I look forward to the day when games are purchased for what they're worth (good games being worth more than the kruft that is so often shoveled out there today) - and view world pricing as a step in the right direction away from the commodity based pricing of games [all launching AAA games in the USA are commonly priced at 60USD regardless of quality, I consider this bad].

EDIT: Incidentally, the implication of the quote is that it is best for the Seller if he can charge exactly what someone is willing to pay for every item he sells - be glad you live in a reasonably mass market which prevents that.

Prices are hightened in more wealthy countries becuase they can get more money from selling it at a higher price, as the average citizen/the target audience will have more money than those in poorer countries. For example, games in Poland might go for $30, but here in Canada they sell for about $50, since we have more GDP than Poland.

And in Poland, and i a couple other countries. You're probably right Thizzbaby. I'm not sure this is optimal business strategy. That's all I'm saing.

//-----

Sareln, I agree with most of what you wrote, but this:

Not quite. 1) In Europe ther's no retail, so probably no constraints.  2) Stardock could adjust pricee to local markets, just like Valve.  It's rather intresting that you don't see a lot of threads about unfairness of regional pricing of L4D2 on Steam forums. I think most of people understands reasons. And Steam don't even have big problems with interregional gifts.

I can understand your vision -- one price for all, games purchased for what they're worth and so on. But with economy rather "glocal" than global it is Utopia. So one more time -- Elemental is great product, but on polish market it's not worth 50$. Hard core fans probably will buy it, but most of potential customers will be waiting for better price.

Because it would be pointless to complain about it in steam forums. The actual reason behind the higher pricings in western europe are the retailers, who want to charge 50€ for a new game because its the established price there. steam actually used to charge 50$ even for eu customers till the $-€ exchange rate went beyond all expectations so retailers faced a situation where it would be far cheaper to buy a digital copy. And since they are too afraid of competition, they forced the publishers to force the online stores like steam to charge the same amount in the local currency.

Its not like steam invented regional pricings, this simply made it clear to everyone how the market worked.

edit: but now they are using it to charge more even for non retail(indie) games.

So if stardock wanted to sell elemantel in western europe via retail, then they would need to either charge 50€ both retail and online or not make money on retail there.

I'm not so sure about that. Once again let's look at the example of CiV. In all direct download services the prices are almost the same: 49 - 59 Euro. To protect local distributors. But local retail distributor -- in this case Cenega -- sell the same game for 30 euro, typical polish price for a day-1 game. Everyone is happy -- customer has a choice (typical price in stores or higher price on DD), 2K sells a lot of copies in Poland, etc.

Stardock on the other hand pass on retail distribution and trying to sell their games in Poland with american price, higher than average. Only PC game sold here for more than 40 euro is Starcraft 2 with all it's marketing might. I know that american studio don't care about reality on the other side of the word. But as a result only hardcore fans will buy Elemental, and most of normal fans of TBS will wait or download it illegaly. It's a question of financial strategy. I guess Poland is small market, perhaps sells of GalCiv2 was lower than expected -- i don't know. But I know for sure that if 2K, Valve and a lot of other developers can sell their games in retail cheaper then Stardock can too. If Valve can sell their own games cheaper (that is with typical polish prices) even in digital distribution then Stardock can too. They just don't want to.

Like I wrote before: That's their choice. I -- as a customer -- make mine.

Q.F.T.

Not going to get wrapped up in the miscellaneous debates going on in this thread.. other then to say Stardock has the right to decide what to charge, customer has right to decide to pay that price or not.. and for good or bad, each of them have to live with those decisions.

Ah, all I was trying to get across with that statement is this:

Stardock has made two concrete decisions - to participate at retail in the most valuable markets sans Europe and to offer a world price.  Since they're restricted in price by the retail markets they are in (not Europe), that means that their global price is actually the NA price, instead of some global price they've come up with based on market-size, RoI, etc.

On the plus side for those of you on the raw end of this bargain, Elemental already broke even on Pre-orders (according to the frog) so additional sales (which are often encouraged by sales, deals, and other specials) are gross profit and therefore quite attractive.

We should never forget that video games are a luxury good

ITT: People who have little to no understanding of global economy.

Regional pricing has existed since WW2 alongside the discovery of consumerism and creative destruction, and will continue to do so, because it actually earns the companies more money.

Though, with the advent of globalization, it becomes harder and harder to maintain regional pricing in digital media, due to the new channels of distribution being discovered.

Things like Steam and Impulse are still very new, and they are very likely to change and evolve the way they operate economically, dacades into the future.

Disclaimer: We're talking about regional pricing in a very specific manner. Prices may have differed in regions way before WW2, but the mechanism that affects the way regional pricing works now, came with the invention of capitalism (specifically creative destruction and consumerism), around the end of WW2 to make the post-war transition and depression shorter.

That is all true, but with steam you can expect playing for DLC, paying for mini expansions and avatars, as well as rediculous DRM.  Even if I was making 1/3 I make now, I would still buy from stardock at the full price.

This is the funniest thread I have read all day!!! 

When GDP was mentioned I thought I was going to split my pants. There are people complaining about the price of a computer game like it’s the price of a pint of milk or bread.

You are correct and if someone thinks the game is not value for money then do not buy it. You will not go hungry or not heat your house or not clothe on your children.

However, the most amusing thing is that Stardock are charging everyone the same price. If I go to Berlin, Paris or Warsaw then Elementals will cost me the same. I will definitely not feel cheated or bitter that because I am well off compared to other parts of the world and the money grabbing software houses are not trying to charge me more just because I can afford it. Try living in London…and I really mean, try, because it tough.

Let’s put it in perspective; there are starving children in this world but I don’t really care because on August 24^th I will have giving my money to Stardock to play Elementals: War of Magic and safe in the knowledge that everyone else pay the same amount.