[gameplay - pipedream] Round table negotiations

from Elemental Forums

Goodmorning all,

I've been replaying GC, SMAC recently and been thinking. 

There is one thing i would like to see,  genuine multi-party diplomacy.

SMAC has a planetary council, which at least you can request people vote the way you want them to.  and GC has the galactic council, which is both more powerful in terms of what it can do, and more of a joke it terms of diplomacy.

I would really like to see a system where the council is broken into cycles. 

One part to choose the question or questions which the council will address in the second meeting.

A second where each party states how they would vote, right now,  then one or two rounds where you can try to convince the others to vote they way you want them to, or build a team to vote a given way on a given topic.

Each channaler has their own list of 'want' 'willing $$$' and 'not willing' to see happen. . . and to some degree would tell how much they care, and what political ramifications there could be if the vote doesn't go their way.

Let the wheeling, dealing, and backstabbing begin.

Robbie Price

4,053 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the sound of this.  The only problem with this idea is that, based upon GC, the question du jour always seems so arbitrary.  Whenever there is a galactic council, the question is far removed from my concerns of the moment. It would be neat if your sovereign could call a council and formulate the question.  I guess the question could be created using a system like that found in the diplomacy screen (e.g., Should Empire X have to PAY/SURRENDER/TAX, etc.  In other words, a dialogue tree of sorts that will allow the player to craft a proposal the AI can understand).

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I was thinking kindof the same thing.

In SMAC the leader of the council can call a meeting and choose the topic of the meeting from a list of possible topics. However the list of avalible topics was ... poor ... at best.

GC had a good list of fun topics,  but as you said, they are randomly picked from and never timely.


I would suggest that the council would meet once or twice to pick the question or questions to be decided on in the final or final 2 meetings of the season/year/cycle. 

SO something like

Seating 1:  Each channaler chooses 3 or 4 questions they wish to be brought to the council. (chosen from an extensive list of options, or built from AI understandable building blocks.)

Eather at seating 1 or at seating 2,  Decide on a list of (1 -3) questions that will be put to vote in the decision section.

This would be achieved by bribing or threatening other channalers to choose your questions either between meetings or at the meeting.

 

During the 1 or 2 meetings of the decision the (1-3) questions are discussed and each channaler offers to support or reject the given motions for certain prices, threats.

The final meeting or the end of the decision meeting votes are cast, and it's discovered who betrayed who and who stole goods without providing votes (one stage would exchange goods the next would cast votes allowing you to double cross). and if there is time between the two meetings you can 'sell' your vote to more then one team,  with obvious political ramifications.

Anyway just thinking, Night

Robbie

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Good thinking, nonetheless.  :beer: I wonder if such a system is possible?

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CrusaderScott, reply 3
Good thinking, nonetheless.  I wonder if such a system is possible?
End of CrusaderScott's quote

When we were talking about diplomatic capital I ended up brainstorming a multi-turn negotiation sort of thing - first, the idea, necro'd from this thread:

Quoting Sareln,

Additional Thought:

If you want to go another step. If there is a diplomatic meeting like the UN/Apostolic Palace of CIV or the Galactic Council of GalCiv here's how I would use dipcap in it.

Council is set to be held (player spends dipcap to call it, some space necessary between councils) - players get a popup asking them two questions.

  1. The 1st turn, Will you Attend (Yes/No - players nominate a champion/sovereign to attend)? and how much DipCap will you bid to be able to set the resolution/thing to be voted upon, and the location of the meeting.
  2. The 2nd turn, the Highest Bidder sets the resolution, highest bidder is hidden.
  3. the 3rd turn all players are told what will be voted upon, and have a number of different dipcap options, for instance:
    1. Attempt to Assassinate a Representative
    2. Increase Guard (costs cap because you're not trusting other players)
    3. Disrupt Proceedings
  4. The 4th turn, dipcap events are resolved and players vote (if the representatives are still alive!) Votes are weighted by the level of the representative, the populations they represent, and a bonus based on capital stores (so primary controllers are population and representative level, with capital stores acting as tiebreak).  Sovereigns get a bonus, as do family members.  If the resolution passes, the sponsor and all ayes gain dipcap from the losers

You need at least a majority or plurality of players to agree to attend or the council doesn't happen.  All council attendees are at truce (cannot attack, but can move through each other's territory) during the council (eg. a player who is campaigning abroad does not want to attend the council if his opponent is likely to attend).

End of Sareln's quote

I still like it TBH, but it's involved enough to probably need CIV-level access to the DLL to pull off properly.  Not so with the idea you've put on table, I think I see a way to hack it in.  You would need to accomplish two primary things:

  1. Chained Events
  2. A Resource or Tradeable Called "Vote"

You would use the Chained Events to actually run the council, each would fire in sequence.  The resource/trade-able called vote would be something players could "buy" on the interturns.  This would give you a basic "council" framework to start building on the more in-depth features.

So definitely doable.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CrusaderScott, reply 3
Good thinking, nonetheless.  I wonder if such a system is possible?
End of CrusaderScott's quote

Maybe it's something that's just too hard to get AIs to use well, at least for now. Sure would be nice, though.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

This is one of the things that I would love to see, and I think it could be awesome.

 

Just think of LotRs for example or other stories where a council is called to deal with a big issue, ie: a council of 'good' factions coming together to discuss how to deal with a big menace. That could be great in Elemental. You could use it to form alliances to deal with specific threats, or even to start a quest (ie: Destroy the Ring).

 

I'm sure this can be accomplished in scripted campaigns, but it would also be nice to have it possible in sandbox mode. Hopefully modders will be able to come up with something.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

In a campaign it's simple to come up with a scripted event, where it behaves like a round table, but is actually a choose your adventure storybook.  Choose to say any one of the following 6 choices,  then and one of the following 3.

Making something dynamic that the AI doesn't suck at.... would be a challenge.  What 'Hooks' into the AI will we have, or do we have?