Commander-Generals

Academy Training vs Command Experience vs Level

from Elemental Forums

Having multiple Champions in an army is fine ... but what if we assign ONE champion/sov as the "general" of any given army. For instance, you have an army without a Champion ... no general. You have an army with 3 Champions ... select one to be the "designated general". The only Command related abilities/talents that would effect the army would have to belong to the General.

examples of this could even be related to Stats.

Charisma could effect the overall morale of your troops. As well as the loyalty of your troops (more defense vs mind spells ... and potential bribery).

Intelligence could effect your flexibility of setting up troops/deployment before the battle starts. Having less than 10 intelligence would give an automatic set-up like the Game currently plays. As well as small bonuses to logistical (strategic) movement.

Wisdom would effect the luck of Favorable terrain (example: starting on higher ground than your opponent, with more forest on your side of the map). And additional chances to sense traps and ambushes*. Could also help sense Assassins**.

*- the ability to sense a trap or ambush would be tied to your command level. The chances of spotting per attempt could be increased by Intelligence, while the number of attempts could be increased by Wisdom.

**-Sensing Assassins would be tied to Command level, modified by the number of assassins you have killed mid-attempt, as well as your Wisdom score.

In addition, Troop loyalty and Logistical movement could also be somewhat tied to Command level. However Charisma and Intelligence, respectively, modify these.

(more talk on traits at the bottom)

 

Another interesting thing would be to have "command talents" ... with each Champion having some level of inate commanding talent, that can be increased by Academy training, command experience, and level-ups in different ways.

(level-ups can include increased Charisma, and certain Command-based traits and abilities that require either a certain amount of either Academy training, Command Experience, or Charisma rating)

 

Academy Training opportunities could depend on Tech Level (and how upgraded your Academy building is ... if you have one). This would be based primarily on tech level, and require the Champion being in a city with a Military Academy. There could be a couple stages of Military Academy upgrades.

Academy Training could allow your Champion to use various new formations ... and the higher level the Academy + the higher your Warfare tech level, the more formations are available.

Command Experience could effect a "command level", and this experience should only increase if the Champion is the general of the army and combats with a particularly numerous foe OR any foe from a primary or minor faction. The command level of a Champion could determine the strength of each formation. Formations could be stronger (or simply increased effects). For instance, a low Command Level could have Testudo formation give some increased Archer block, and some attack penalty. Meanwhile, a very high command level could have Testudo formation give ALL archer block, and NO attack (and a higher over-all defense bonus).

Then, traits gained on Level-up could effect mainly Morale and Army Maintenance. For instance, "Logistical Mastermind" could be a certain trait that requires a VERY HIGH Academy Training rating, that greatly reduces the maintenance of any army he commands. Or he could buy "War Hero" which requires a certain command level (from commanding multiple victorious battles vs Faction armies), that greatly increases overall morale.

 

At the opposite spectrums of Academy Training and Command Experience, you see two radically different strategies. One relies on vast amounts of troops using a HUGE library of Combat Formations ready for ANY situation, and the other relies on highly effective "elite" troops using basic formations.

The latter could still field huge armies if he wanted, but the Maintenance would be much greater, so the War Hero would wish to focus on leading a smaller army of hardened elites ... with near un-ending morale.

 

// If the adventure tree includes unveiling the location of rare metals (perhaps with limited deposits), then the War Hero could focus more on Adventure than Warfare, and have a small, elite army ... while the Tech-Master Academy "by the book" buy would focus more on Logistics techs and Academy techs In the Warfare (and possibly Civilization?) tree.

In an extreme example, the War Hero could be leading some elite units + Champions with the 4 Swords of the Armageddon, in Death Armor, against a large army of musketmen, Cannons, and halberds.

 

***Traits***

Dexterity could increase your Dodge rating, which works separately from parry to completely negate a melee attack ... especially negating an Assassin's "Killing Strike" (which ignores your melee-parry rating).

Wisdom could increase your dodge vs an enemy's "back-stab" ability ... which has a high chance of ignoring your normal/Dex based dodge rating.

(Heavy Armor lowers your dodge rating)

(Heavy Weapons lower your melee parry rating)

Strength could increase your chances of ignoring an enemy's parry rating, as well as increasing the chance of destroying/dislodging the Shield of an opponent that successfully Shield-Parrys your attack.

Wisdom and Charisma both increase your Loyalty rating, while Intelligence lowers it. A champion with High Intelligence and Low Wisdom AND Low Charisma will be highly susceptible to mind attacks (and bribes). The Int modifier only goes into effect above 10, while the Wis and Char modifier is always in effect.

Therefore ... a low Wis + low Char is still susceptible to Mind attacks even if it also has a low Intelligence.

Of course, anyone will be some-what susceptible to a powerful Mage's mind attacks. Morale may also affect susceptibility.

A Dodge rating more easily evades a melee attack than a Ranged attack, yet dodging a ranged attack is not impossible.

Also, the Dodge rating applied to melee attacks considers the "Net Dodge rating." Two opponents with equal Dodge rating may not dodge each others attacks. The only exception is Assasin-based attacks (which deal extra damage than even your attack rating). The Defender of an Assassin-based attack is always considered to have DOUBLE his normal dodge rating***.

***- mind you, an Assassin's "backstab" ability IGNORES all non-Wisdom based dodge, so even if his normal dodge is 10, if his wisdom dodge is only 2 ... then your really only dealing with a dodge of 4 (wisdom dodge x 2)

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

On Assassination attempts.

Assassins have special abilities they can use on any-ole tactical battle ... which tend to ignore parries, ignore part or all of their opponent's defense, and deal more damage than the attack roll would imply (anywhere from 20%, 50%, or 100% more).

These Assassin abilities do however use up more action points, and some even require an unaware opponent.

Unaware opponents include opponents that are either Charmed, Frozen, Stunned, or Blinded .... or the Assassin could simply be hidden or invisible.

A "Killing Strike" doesn't require Unawareness at all ... and can even be used directly, in open combat, against an aware opponent. The caveat is that it doesn't ignore ANY defense ... and it costs alot of action points (3?). Yet it does ignore all parry rating, uses a higher-than-normal attack roll, and deals 50% more damage than the attack roll would imply.

A "backstab" meanwhile, ignores parry rating, ignores 50% defense rating, and only requires that the user be directly behind the opponent (and use 2 action points). However, if its against an "unaware" opponent, the assassin also ignores the defender's dodge bonus (all but their Wisdom dodge bonus)

Most assassin abilities have to deal with twice the opponent's dodge rating ... and against an AWARE opponent, those numbers can add up.

So against an Agile and Aware opponent, assassin skills aren't very useful.

Likewise, an Agile (lightly armored) and Unaware opponent is especially susceptible to certain abilities (that don't ignore armor yet up the Damage), while an aware and Heavily Armored opponents is susceptible to abilities that ignore most armor (due to low dodge).

 

As for an ACTUAL ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ... its quite different than simple abilities used during normal combat.

An assassination attempt targets a particular champion ... and a "mini-tactical" is generated between the Assassins involved and the Champion. This "mini-tactical" would probably be about as large as the current battle-maps.

Units involved on the Assassin's team must have some sort of "subterfuge pack", including Assassin, Camouflage, Stealth, and Invisibility. Only one is required per unit ... yet at least one unit must have the Assassin pack.

Units in the army of the "victim" also have a chance to appear. That chance is initially quite low ... yet can be increased by Commander level of the Victim, Commander level of the current commander, victim's Wisdom, victim's Charisma, and Commander's Wisdom. Obviously the Command-level is most important ... yet high levels of Wisdom and/or Charisma can make a difference.

Its quite possible (but rare) that all allied units come to support the victim. In this case, its still considered an assassination attempt, but a rather botched one for sure ... with less survival chances for the assassins.

A unit's "Assassin sensing rating" (again tied to Command rating + Wisdom) determines the chances for it to "sense an assassin" each turn an assassin is near the unit (during an attempt).

At the start of the attempt ... all the Victim's units are automatically spread throughout the map, uncontrollable, immobile, and unaware. The larger the number of units involved (both sides) the larger the map. But the units would be spread out just enough that the assassins would have to move "directly between" two other units to get to the "target" (assuming many units on the victim's side appeared)

Now, here is the trick. If the assassins can kill the target before being spotted ... then no tactical battle is activated and they won't have to fight their way out. HOWEVER!! If they are sensed beforehand, the victim suddenly becomes controllable (along with any of his units also on the map) ... meaning that a "Assassination Attempt BATTLE" will start for the other player (whether human or AI) and your pitted against each other.

Now, any assassin will be sensed AUTOMATICALLY upon attacking any unit. So all kills will need to be one-turn kills. (or one hit-kills, which would make things much harder for the assassins). Now, assuming 'only' one-turn kills are required, its possible that the band of assassins could kill the entire army (if the entire army shows up) one at a time. However, each time one assassin approaches one unit, there is a chance that the assassins will be sensed. Therefore, a lot of assassins dog-piling a lot of units will give a VERY high chance that they are spotted before they reach and kill their target.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Great ideas here, but I doubt we will ever see them in stock Elemental. I hope this sort of thing will be possible with mods...

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Wow, that's pretty extensive and deep. I don't know if the game is quite ready for all of that. I'm trying to add in new traits (like a General history for the sovereign) and that is rather difficult just to get some small bonuses.

If you can figure out how to do army maintenance, I'd love to know! There has to be a value for it somewhere. I'd also love it if someone could figure out how to tie attributes to trait bonuses. For example, charisma increasing morale or loyalty or making it increase a merchants gold output. That'd be the greatest thing ever for trait modding, atm.

Anyways, a very thorough idea you have here. I'd certainly love to see it all implemented. Good luck!

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Generals - I like the idea.

Assassinations - I don't like the idea, it complicates things too much.