Whack a Mole Gaming in Elemental

from Elemental Forums

So last night I decided to dig deep into Elemental and while my overall all impression is very good there are some things that really bothered me.

About 45 minutes in I started seeing random monsters appearing in my territory, a lot of random monsters. Every time I'd wipe them out 5 turns later they would be back. Soon my game became more about cleaning out my territory of random pop up critters than playing the game.

Now I wouldn't mind if these were border territories but this was happening deep within areas that I control. After a while I was really getting bored because these critters were effortless to kill but they just kept appearing in an endless stream.

Now what would be cool (IMHO) is to have all these low level critters spawned in wild lands or border towns areas and every once in a while have a epic type critter spawn deep with-in my controlled territory. For example:

A 50 foot demon has clawed its way up from the depths of hell to take back the power of your fire shard! It's immune to fire, wields a 20 foot sword and you better gather an army before it lays waste to the shard and the area around it!

Now that would be the type of random critter that I'd like to see spawning deep in my territory. Something epic that makes you go "oh Sh*t!", not 10 level 2 spiders when I have units that hit for 350 points of damage. Of course you would have the game gauge your strength and spawn these epic encounters accordingly.

I guess if that is not feasible then perhaps be able to set patrol routes or assign units areas to guard where they automatically engage hostiles that enter the assigned area instead of having the player constantly stop what they are doing to deal with this low level nuisances.

elemental
5,817 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

The game really needs dungeons vs. killing the repeated spawning of creatures. Some times the creatures re-spawn all around your party or even in the same hex.

 

 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

It would help.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

In the 1.1 we will probably get a decent curve to these monsters and how often they spawn. I would remind everyone though that we need such critters in the game to level up our heroes fo bigger battles. I usually leave my offspring in my territory to deal with the spawning. That way after 10 or so games of whack a mole, I get a usefull unit.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 3
In the 1.1 we will probably get a decent curve to these monsters and how often they spawn. I would remind everyone though that we need such critters in the game to level up our heroes fo bigger battles. I usually leave my offspring in my territory to deal with the spawning. That way after 10 or so games of whack a mole, I get a usefull unit.
End of seanw3's quote

 

Yea, I've done the same thing, I still think dungeons that level to play/party level would be a better way to go.

I don't think the re-spawns ever stop in Beta4, I've never been able to clear out a re-spawn area, may be a bug?

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

heh ... you "could" simply leave them alone you know :p

 

although, if such weak creatures were attacking caravans .. then there should be a way to assign units to auto-move with a caravan (act as its guard)

 

but Im a supporter of weak mooks infinitely spawning in the wilds, and stronger mooks inside caves/dungeons ... with the rare Ultra-strong mook both in the wilds and in caves/dungeons

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't mind having to leave a small three man guard party near the woods to deal with the occasional bandit or wolf attacks (I don't care what you say, you'll probably ALWAYS have those problems) but the 50 foot demon re-spawning every month or so is kinda annoying. You'd think once I amass all this military might they'd kinda go away.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I see, once you amass all that power a power hungry demon would go away but not 10 level 5 wolves?

I understand we need cannon fodder mobs to train up champions but I don't think they should be spawning deep in established territory but they should be in spawning around border towns and wilds.

I would just ignore them but they do attack caravans and shards, mines and other bonus items. While this is fine early on when those things make a difference it's just annoying when you are a super power.

Also the demon was just an extreme example it could just as well be a bandit lord/king or something that you don't normally see wandering around all the time nor does it have to be just for when you are super powerful.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I ended up stationing a few heavily armored parties archers in each of wood. That ended the issue more or less. Though hardly an optimal solution.

Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting pad152, reply 1
The game really needs dungeons vs. killing the repeated spawning of creatures. Some times the creatures re-spawn all around your party or even in the same hex.

 

 

 
End of pad152's quote

 

How about combining the two?

 

First you clear out the area surrounding a new city.

Later, as you see more random monster spawns, you investigate the city's environs and you discover a dungeon/monster spawn/hell gate that you must clear out and thus, at least for a while, end your monster problem.

There are many scenarios that could be played out with this basic mechanic.

For example, you need to locate a seer or witch or something to give you the location of the dungeon and that entity may require some item you would quest to get.

 

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 3
In the 1.1 we will probably get a decent curve to these monsters and how often they spawn. I would remind everyone though that we need such critters in the game to level up our heroes fo bigger battles. I usually leave my offspring in my territory to deal with the spawning. That way after 10 or so games of whack a mole, I get a usefull unit.
End of seanw3's quote

 

Yea, I've done the same thing, I still think dungeons that level to play/party level would be a better way to go.

I don't think the re-spawns ever stop in Beta4, I've never been able to clear out a re-spawn area, may be a bug?

 

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Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I think we can find a happy middle ground here.

 

Ideally, there should be a mix of spawning options for independent enemies. I'm not 100% sure of the exact current mechanics.

 

1) Wilderness spawning: This should be in areas that are not very civilized, mostly monsters and animals. This should also be within your territory, just not near larger cities. For an example, look at The Empire in Warhammer. It is a big area, full of dark forests full of Beastmen and other nastiness. For Elemental, it would be great if there was a way to spawn enemies based on distance to a city. So you might see more bandits spawn near roads, but not very many monsters. Off in the wilderness, you will see more monsters and less bandits. This would also be impacted by your units. If you have units constantly patrolling an area, then the spawns will be ended or reduced. Only problem with that is if someone decides to just spawn individual soldiers all over the place...maybe make it so that you need a certain size patrol to reduce spawns.

 

2) Location spawning: A haunted tomb might spawn undead warriors. A spider nest spawns spiders. Etc.This can be ended by getting rid of the location.

 

3) Quest spawning: A quest chain leads to a new wilderness spawn 'event' or a new location being created.

 

We already have this to some degree, I would just like to see it refined a bit more.

 

 

 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea of location spawns, but worry that humans would be able to farm for xp in a way that the AI wouldn't be able to handle.

Fixing XP gain so that its proportional to the threat of the unit would help, so killing weak units doesn't give much xp.

The current method where every fight gives the same xp is just broken....

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

In another thread on this same subject (a week or so ago) I suggested a partial solution for this.. at least with caravans. I suggested a building tech (lets call it a caravan guard guild) that allows us to spend gold to hire guards to protect them.. that or allow us to upgrade caravans with weapons (or make a traders pack) so we can make caravans that can protect them selves..  ^_^