[Customization] Factions

Please re-enable some form of in-game faction creation

from Elemental Forums

I made a reply to Frogboy's rethinking factions post earlier today, but I thought that I might as well set out my thoughts here too.

The article referenced in IGN’s Feature on Elemental Modding states that modding custom factions will be handled in the xml files, which leads me to assume that we will no longer be able to create our own factions in game. Here's the quote:

"As soon as it gets complex, we hand it over into XML so that a different class of modder will go in," says Wardell. "For instance, during the beta, we let users create their own custom factions right in the game setup. But each subsequent beta, the create faction screen got more and more complex since you were creating faction bonuses, choosing what race they would be, applying racial bonuses, choosing what people in the faction would look like and on and on and we realize that sort of functionality should not be part of the "I just want to play the bloody game" setup and moved that into the realm of mods where people could really go to town and make their own elves or orcs or whatever races they want to have in."
End of quote

 

I'd like to have that feature back in the game; here's my reasoning:

1. Many people enjoy creating and playing with their own faction. Refer to the poll (My favorite faction is) at the top of the journal page for evidence. Right now it stands at 76% voting for "The one I created myself" with Pariden in a distant second with 8%. Presumably most people responded during the beta period where it was possible to create your own faction.

2. Now a big assumption: Most players won't mess around with the xml files. I think its a pretty reasonable assumption.

That combo alone means that a large number of players will miss out on a feature that they enjoyed.

3. Balance. So, assuming you learned your xml, found all the right files and bits and pieces and put it all together, what about your numbers? You could throw in any number of bonuses and advantages. The sovereign customization system gives you a list of stats/bonuses and makes you buy them using a limited number of points. That useful information (which bonus is worth how much, and how many of each type you can have) would be lacking in a purely xml customization.

4. Multiplayer. If you make your own faction, you want to play with it, yes? Maybe even against other people? I'm not sure exactly how the multiplayer servers will work, but I would theorize that you will not be able to take your custom faction (I'm assuming it'll be treated like a mod) onto the official servers, and you'll have to share yours around with everyone if you're playing on a custom server. Unless you can make a custom faction in-game, in which case everyone can bring their own.

4.5 The balance issue crops up with multiplayer again. With out some rules and boundaries, coordinating with your fellow players on a server about acceptable modifications to custom races would be tedious and aggravating. That kind of structure isn't provided when each individual player has to go into the xml files and code/copy-paste their own faction.

 

I can understand that the factions have too many features to go through the process of creating a faction every time you wish to "play the bloody game." However, I'm not asking that we get enough tools to make things drastically different, i.e. "elves or orcs or whatever," just enough to be able to make a faction to call our own. Like the sovereign customization system.

 

So... those are my somewhat scattered thoughts about faction customization/creation. I'd miss the feature, and I'm sure others would too, so please bring it back.

11,685 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I was under every impression that they were going to re-implement the faction creation system in either a future beta or at release along with all the other modding tools. It'd kinda suck if they didn't.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I believe it will be available to us just as part of the mod tools.. Frogboy said something about a workshop mode, sound like there we could create our factions then start a game and use them... I suspect we will see it again in once 4 releases ..then again i could be wrong. would not be the first time heh...

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Twohawks, reply 2
I believe it will be available to us just as part of the mod tools.. Frogboy said something about a workshop mode, sound like there we could create our factions then start a game and use them... I suspect we will see it again in once 4 releases ..then again i could be wrong. would not be the first time heh...
End of Twohawks's quote

wasn't that the race making tool?

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

.

Quoting KillzEmAllGod, reply 3

Quoting Twohawks, reply 2I believe it will be available to us just as part of the mod tools.. Frogboy said something about a workshop mode, sound like there we could create our factions then start a game and use them... I suspect we will see it again in once 4 releases ..then again i could be wrong. would not be the first time heh...
wasn't that the race making tool?
End of KillzEmAllGod's quote

 

well that is what the op was asking about. The poll referenced by the OP is about factions within the 2 races in elemental,  men and fallen (each having several faction in them).. so the the only modding tool i have seen was a faction tool.. you could choose which race it was from it was from the fallen or men...   so from that aspect we (or at least I have never) have never seen a race creation tool.. although I do expect it can and will be done in modding.. and I would like to see a tool for it for custom games :D

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I was talking about factions rather than races. I can see where race creation could be a little too complicated to have an in-game editor.

I too had thought that the faction creation tool would be back in by release, but the article made me think that this won't be the case. Hence this thread, where I'm hoping to bring some attention to the issue.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Its not really gone they just moved it from the game setup screen to the workshop.. so you wont see it in the game setup (unless they change it again) but should see it in the modding tools  that the game is shipping with. Frogboy said they did this in order to make it a more robust tool with more options ... I suspect we will see it in  tomorrow or Fridays update as its the Modding update heh heh.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

I believe that you will have a nice tool provided by Stardock to create a new faction.   This will allow you to define the various strengths/weaknesses of the faction as well as what tech tree they use (think GalCiv 2).    While I want to have some way to ensure that I can't completely wreck the balance with my faction, I like the fact that I can create my faction out of the game and get it just right then use it as I want in the game. 

 

Or even better, I want to use someone else's faction mods (& race mods) in my game by just adding them in (Draconians - RavenX I'm counting on you to do them justice :thumbsup:  ).  I believe this mod tool will facilitate that.   

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting KillzEmAllGod, reply 3



wasn't that the race making tool?
End of KillzEmAllGod's quote

 

Speaking of races...other than a different appearance, is there any point to it? Do some have different stats? When I create a custom sov, nothing seems to change other than his/her appearance. Is there any point to having multiple races? Strategically I mean. I get to make it more diverse, but you're never really looking at the people too much. Is this perhaps something to come in the near future?

 

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

From what I've seen of the tile editor/xml crossover interface, I get the feeling faction creation is going to be nudged into that nebulous area between user toolsets and outright modding. And, yes, I know xml is a relatively uncomplicated form of data management. That doesn't make the pretense of customization for the user off the street any less of an exagerration at this rate, though. Anyone remember the Warcraft 3 map editor? Surprisingly uncomplicated data management, in a user-friendly environment, capable of producing a whole lot of things. And of course, there's the elegantly simple species editor for Galactic Civilizations 2. Sure, Elemental is working with more variables graphics-wise than GalCiv, and typically with more complex systems than Warcraft 3...

But, c'mon, guys. The devs have made some real strides from Beta to Beta, and this is one of the only things I can really complain about that isn't just a minor bug that needs ironing out. I'm not an avid modder. I don't get into it: I might play a good mod, but I don't have the energy, interest or tolerance for testing and debugging essential to making one. Thus, the idea of needing more energy, interest, time, and tolerance to create a faction than to create a map, when by all appearances a UI-based, xml-dummy friendly shell for creating factions was being developed really disappoints me.

I know there are issues here that I, as a user, do not fully understand... But I also know I'm part of the 71% of people who made up their own factions back when there was an editor... And I know I paid for the game expecting user-friendly customization on a grand scale, as advertised. I guess I have to hope that, post-release, someone will put out a softer sort of faction builder.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

One of the greatest turn based games Master of Orion II had this feature, I loved this game because you could create and name everything. Your leader, race, ships, planets, systems. Playing your personal custom race was half the fun ;)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

There is a list of things I planned to mod into the game. New buildings, equipment, a new faction for myself, etc. When I found out that editing would be done partially in an XML file, I scrapped 99% of my list, saving only the faction I want to play. And I'm really not looking at that like it's something possible now.

I am NO modder. I want to play the game. Some people can sit down and find editing stuff to be fun, but XML documents are a foreign language to me. I don't want to have to learn how to mod or screw around with XML files just so I can play as a custom faction.

Since it seems i have no choice, I'll learn how to mod it, and I'll do it. I won't be happy about it, but I'll do it. And because of the whole 'test the mod, make it balanced' thing, I'm sure that I'll only ever see the same ten factions in any game.

-N

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I was also one of many who was looking forward to the prospect of being able to customize and fashion my very own faction, tweaked and hammerd to suit my likes as well as fit me like a glove.

As others have pointed out, I'm not one of those people who get into or deal with modding myself. I actually stay away from these tools most of the time, even if they are available to me, simply because I do not have either the patience, time or mental capacity to deal with it. This is also true for the fact when it comes to other peoples' mods, I will very rarely (if ever) download the work of others, simply because these unofficial modifications to the core game usually come with annoying, teensy-tiny flaws that grate and gnash at the back of my head as I'm trying to play the game. Thus, I will usually only play the Vanilla version of a game (with the obvious exception of officially developed add-ons or mods, patches and etc.).

The point in this is that if I want a custom faction, but do not know how to work with xml and properly create such a group through the modding-tools, simply because I do not know (or understand) the programming language, one of the major selling-points of Elemental instantly gets flushed down the drain. I could of course download mods of factions made by other people, but again: These are factions made by OTHERS, and I am almost 100% sure that I would not be able to find a faction that was customized JUST the way I wanted (unless some insane person spent ridiculous amounts of time making hundreds of factions with minor, minor tweaks and thus, nearly spamming clone-files). Granted, I probably do not have enough knowledge to properly comment on this topic, since the developers decided to move the system and change it. And they probably had a good reason(s) to do so, but I would like to see it re-implemented in the retail version since it was one of the major reasons that I got drawn into Elemental.

Of course, all of this is just nonsensical if in fact the developers are planning to put the Customizable factions into the Workshop along with an XML-editor.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

All I'm going to say is that custom races/factions really sold the game to my friends... so if you guy's want extra sales I think more custom options are better.