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Elemental: BETA 4 Preview

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Elemental: BETA 4 Preview

from JoeUser Forums

We’re finishing up our work on Beta 4 for a release later this week.

Here are a few highlights:

#1 A general polish pass has been done across the board.  Not quite to 1.0 but significantly better.

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#2 Players will be able to access the Workshop’s Tile Editor

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#3 PLayers will have access to the Workshop’s Map Editor

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#4 The tactical battles have gotten a lot of polish

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#5 There’s been a lot of love given to spell effects and sounds throughout the game

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#6 The game will occasionally design units for you (for players who don’t like designing their own units).

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#7 A MASSIVE pass on performance tuning. This same screen in Beta 3C would have been 11 FPS.

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#8 MASSIVE pass on cloth map performance to make sure the game runs on Netbooks.

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#9 The start of work on the tech trees to make them more challenging (This will be an ongoing thing).

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#10 The Diplomacy system has gotten its first pass at the AI intelligently valuing things (this will be an ongoing thing to improve)

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We have also done a massive pass at both stability and video card compatibility.  Generally speaking, beta 4 shouldn’t crash on you during the course of a game.  However, we are still working on loading games from within a game (there’s a lot of STUFF to deal with there) as well as loading saved games. It’s still far better than beta 3C but it’s not perfect yet.

We have also dramatically reduced the memory foot print but this is an area we will be making substantial improvements during the next week or so (post Beta 4).

When Beta 4 goes out, we’ll go into more depth on the things players can expect us to focus on in particular for the release version.  Given that Beta 3C was only a week ago, I think the beta community will find Beta 4 a major relief (i.e. how much can change in a single week). 

The stability of Beta 4 (our current internal beta of it) is equal to the day 0  version of Galactic Civilizations II and its performance significantly better than the release version of Galactic Civilizations II.

After Beta 4, our code tree gets separated into the version that will be polished, tweaked and bug fixed for the manufactured version (the version that hits stores on August 24) and then the version that will go towards the release (Day 0) version that will be available on August 24th.

As of today, the game is now sufficiently ahead of schedule that the Stardock team is no longer in “crunch mode”.

If you’re still playing Beta 3C, you should stop before it causes permanent damage (it’s pretty awful).

Our main focus going foward is polish polish polish polish polish (including AI, UI, Balance, Spell Work, Special Abilities in tactical battles, Tester requested tweaks, etc.).

Oh, btw, the campaign (which won’t be in the betas) is pretty damn cool and was 100% made with the mod tools and XML (i.e. you guys could make your own campaigns).

Cheers!

193,741 views 128 replies
Reply #76 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 76
As time, and Beta phases, have passed I have come to believe the Dev Team, whom we know are 3 Builds ahead, are keeping things from us for our own good.

I can't imagine, come launch day, downloading a game that has no surprises in it. What the hell FUN would that be. There is no way in hell that the current character graphics make the final cut, most don't have mouths fcol.



 
End of John_Hughes's quote

 

I agree 100% 

Reply #77 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cynjian, reply 77


I agree 100% 
End of Cynjian's quote

 

I had the longest suspicion of them intentionally leaving in memory leaks.

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #79 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting FrznMD, reply 79
Can't wait for beta 4 

@John_Hughes, obviously not a fan of RTS games?

I love SC2, the only two games I bought this year, is SC2 and this.

I also love to mod SC2.
End of FrznMD's quote

To be perfectly frank, SC2 is not really an RTS.  As victory is more based on CPM and unit micro, than actual strategy.  Honestly, I played the beta and knew right then I wouldn't be paying for SC2, or even playing it for that matter.  It took them 7 years to do all of about nothing. 

P.S. paying 180+$ just to get the full singleplay story is an absolute joke. Bobby Kotick should be fired.

P.S.S. Average game length was 8min 37secs as of the last beta... pathetic.

Reply #80 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sushikawa, reply 78


I had the longest suspicion of them intentionally leaving in memory leaks.
End of Sushikawa's quote

That is pretty regular.  Which would you rather have them spend time on?  Getting leaks down from 20% to 0 for each build, or adding 10-20 hours worth of extra features?  Plus having you send them leak reports gives them a much wider spectrum of machines than they can possibly have, and more scenarios than they can duplicate.

It isn't that they hate you, but they have to be as efficient as they can be.

Reply #81 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting VermillionChaos, reply 80

Quoting FrznMD, reply 79Can't wait for beta 4 

@John_Hughes, obviously not a fan of RTS games?

I love SC2, the only two games I bought this year, is SC2 and this.

I also love to mod SC2.
To be perfectly frank, SC2 is not really an RTS.  As victory is more based on CPM and unit micro, than actual strategy.  Honestly, I played the beta and knew right then I wouldn't be paying for SC2, or even playing it for that matter.  It took them 7 years to do all of about nothing. 

P.S. paying 180+$ just to get the full singleplay story is an absolute joke. Bobby Kotick should be fired.

P.S.S. Average game length was 8min 37secs as of the last beta... pathetic.
End of VermillionChaos's quote

 

Blizzard is no longer the golden child of the gaming industry, no matter what several million WoW zombies might have to say about it. Starcraft set the bar for RTS's when it came out in the 90's, 12 years later they finally stop smoking the money they've been making off of WoW to make 1/3rd of a sequel. I can't stand blizzard. The only game I'll be purchasing from them in the future is Diablo 3, and that's because it's exactly like the first two. I wouldn't be surprised if the next game they made was WoW 2. Bah.

 

As for the beta! Here's hoping tomorrow is actually the day they're releasing it. I heard Thursday spoken somewhere elseso fingers crossed. I can get up to the 500's in turns before 3c crashes if I stick to cloth map only, just not much fun to play empire. Most of the tech tree doesn't even work for them.

Reply #82 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 76


Mostly because SC2 was a frigging waste of $70.00. Even 12 years later, it took 3.25 minutes to get through the Tutorial...

 

End of John_Hughes's quote

 

I was able to get it for about $40, otherwise, I don't think I'd have it now.

It's not a bad game, but $59.99? Or *gasp* $100 for the CE? Nope.

Elemental CE for $70 looks like a steal by comparison. Heck, it's only $10 more than standard SC2.

Reply #83 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm always amused by people complaining that a game that's meant to be fast paced (and never gave any indication otherwise) is.. fast paced. It's okay to not like fast paced games, but you can't really trash SC2 for doing it because that's exactly how it's meant to be. It's not meant to appeal to (predominantly) TBS gamers. :P

Reply #84 from Elemental Forums Top

The best solution would be introducing several game speed settings like in Civ4, so it will appeal to people who like slow-paced and fast-paced games.

Btw a TBS game should appeal to TBS gamers, otherwise it's a game for no one, I don't think RTS-lovers who don't like TBS will play it.

Edit: Sorry, I just realized that you were talking about SC2... But I still think that game speed settings are a good idea for Elemental.

Reply #85 from Elemental Forums Top

Edit: Sorry, I just realized that you were talking about SC2... But I still think that game speed settings are a good idea for Elemental.
End of quote

When you create a game there's a "pacing" setting in the lower right which I don't think actually does anything yet. But Stardock does have the right idea.

Reply #86 from Elemental Forums Top

Netbook resolution, at least mine, is 1024x576, or something close. Its very problematic because many applications ask a minimum of 800x600. Which means that the 600 is already busting the 576, so it does not work. For example, to try master of orion 3, I needed to plug it on my TV else it crashed on startup.

I don't undertand why you need 2 version of the game. Is it to separate the engine from the game? If this is the case, you intend to design a game in a month? You are pretty courageous, it took me years to design my first game.

Reply #87 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 86

Edit: Sorry, I just realized that you were talking about SC2... But I still think that game speed settings are a good idea for Elemental.
When you create a game there's a "pacing" setting in the lower right which I don't think actually does anything yet. But Stardock does have the right idea.
End of Annatar11's quote

 

I think it does. When I select Epic pacing, the time to research takes a LOT longer.

Reply #88 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 84
I'm always amused by people complaining that a game that's meant to be fast paced (and never gave any indication otherwise) is.. fast paced. It's okay to not like fast paced games, but you can't really trash SC2 for doing it because that's exactly how it's meant to be. It's not meant to appeal to (predominantly) TBS gamers.
End of Annatar11's quote

 

Well, I play SC on Normal game speed even though fast is the default.

I do actually want to see what's going on and since I'm not used to twitch RTS games (more "slower" RTS like CoH or Kohan) I put the speed on Normal.

Reply #89 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 84
I'm always amused by people complaining that a game that's meant to be fast paced (and never gave any indication otherwise) is.. fast paced. It's okay to not like fast paced games, but you can't really trash SC2 for doing it because that's exactly how it's meant to be. It's not meant to appeal to (predominantly) TBS gamers.
End of Annatar11's quote

See the issue is that SC isn't really an RTS. It IS a clickspeed and micro game. Calling it an RTS is purely insulting to games like King Arthur and Total War.

Very much a 'rush and counter' game. Its fine if you like that. I am not ripping on SC2 because of what it IS.  I am ripping because of what it ISN'T.  Minimal improvement, for massive time and money invested.  I would give SC1 a solid 9.3. SC2 gets a 7.2/10 at BEST. Not worth the money.

P.S. If you really like RTS and decent pacing.  Go get Shogun: Total War when it comes out. Skip SC2

Reply #90 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting larienna, reply 87
. For example, to try master of orion 3, I needed to plug it on my TV else it crashed on startup.

End of larienna's quote

 

Which is the best thing that game can do for you.

Reply #91 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 60

Quoting kapeman, reply 59
Quoting John_Hughes, reply 58With Harbors and Transports, via the Seafaring Tech, the Sea doesn't keep you away from the islands on a map with them. Load em up and set sail young man. Adventure awaits on them there islands.
 

Is your post in answer to mine?


Also, why are the shipping techs under warfare?


It would also be nice to have an online (in game) resource to look up the prerequisites of a specific tech.

Might have been. Many pages passed before it hit me about the Harbors and their utility as is.

It is under Warfare as you can create Warships. Not much use yet but the transports work, if a tad slow, but more move points would fix that.

We all assume the game will have that come release day (or maybe before) hint hint dev...
End of John_Hughes's quote

 

I was able to load a couple of pioneers on a transport, but the only way to get them to disembark was to destroy the transport.

Also, I never saw any other ships in the tech tree.

I really would like to see the fishing option implemented/reinstated.

Reply #92 from Elemental Forums Top

The game is not out yet, and I am already excited about the later release they hinted at, not sure if they plan on a patch, update, down-loadable content, mod or what ... but adding navel and sea based stuff into the mix sounds like fun.

 

 

for those who know:

Tarth is the Mantis Clan!!

For those who don't understand that last comment.. please ignore.

 

 

 

Reply #93 from Elemental Forums Top

See the issue is that SC isn't really an RTS. It IS a clickspeed and micro game. Calling it an RTS is purely insulting to games like King Arthur and Total War.
End of quote

Those aren't RTS either, they're called Grand Strategy games. They have real time tactical battles, but are turn-based strategy.

RTS games are purely ones like Starcraft, Command & Conquer, Supreme Commander, etc.

Reply #95 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 94

See the issue is that SC isn't really an RTS. It IS a clickspeed and micro game. Calling it an RTS is purely insulting to games like King Arthur and Total War.


Those aren't RTS either, they're called Grand Strategy games. They have real time tactical battles, but are turn-based strategy.

RTS games are purely ones like Starcraft, Command & Conquer, Supreme Commander, etc.
End of Annatar11's quote

Yeah it's an RTS, but SC is all about reaction time & multi-tasking. Not all of the RTS games are working like that.

Reply #96 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting VermillionChaos, reply 80

To be perfectly frank, SC2 is not really an RTS.  As victory is more based on CPM and unit micro, than actual strategy.  Honestly, I played the beta and knew right then I wouldn't be paying for SC2, or even playing it for that matter.  It took them 7 years to do all of about nothing. 

P.S. paying 180+$ just to get the full singleplay story is an absolute joke. Bobby Kotick should be fired.
End of VermillionChaos's quote

I'd love it if people would stop pulling numbers out of their asses like this. I can only correct the same flagrantly wrong information on this forum so many times.

P.S.S. Average game length was 8min 37secs as of the last beta... pathetic.
End of quote

For people who want to get a game or two done in a limited amount of time, that's great. The single biggest problem that hobbled the Sins online community is how long games take on anything but the absolute smallest maps.

Reply #97 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah it's an RTS, but SC is all about reaction time & multi-tasking. Not all of the RTS games are working like that.
End of quote

Indeed so, and like all other game genres, there's a lot of variation in the styles of the games. There are lots of different types of RPGs, from linear crawls like the latest Final Fantasy to story-driven sagas like Mass Effect or Dragon Age to open world freedom like Oblivion. Same for RTS where you have really fast paced brawls like Starcraft, great "macro"/strategic games like Supreme Commander, squad-based like CoH/DoW2, so on.

My point is, people shouldn't bash a game for being what it's supposed to be. :P

Reply #98 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 98

Yeah it's an RTS, but SC is all about reaction time & multi-tasking. Not all of the RTS games are working like that.


Indeed so, and like all other game genres, there's a lot of variation in the styles of the games. There are lots of different types of RPGs, from linear crawls like the latest Final Fantasy to story-driven sagas like Mass Effect or Dragon Age to open world freedom like Oblivion. Same for RTS where you have really fast paced brawls like Starcraft, great "macro"/strategic games like Supreme Commander, squad-based like CoH/DoW2, so on.

My point is, people shouldn't bash a game for being what it's supposed to be.
End of Annatar11's quote

Agreed. :)

Reply #99 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 98

Yeah it's an RTS, but SC is all about reaction time & multi-tasking. Not all of the RTS games are working like that.
Indeed so, and like all other game genres, there's a lot of variation in the styles of the games. There are lots of different types of RPGs, from linear crawls like the latest Final Fantasy to story-driven sagas like Mass Effect or Dragon Age to open world freedom like Oblivion. Same for RTS where you have really fast paced brawls like Starcraft, great "macro"/strategic games like Supreme Commander, squad-based like CoH/DoW2, so on.

My point is, people shouldn't bash a game for being what it's supposed to be.
End of Annatar11's quote

If you are willing to wait 10 years and then pay out the nose for terrible, then that is your call. I have already said my piece, I beta'd it, and I sure as the devil won't pay for it.

Also, I laddered successful and joyfully on SC1 for years.  I just expected improvement after 12 years.

Reply #100 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 97

I'd love it if people would stop pulling numbers out of their asses like this. I can only correct the same flagrantly wrong information on this forum so many times.

For people who want to get a game or two done in a limited amount of time, that's great. The single biggest problem that hobbled the Sins online community is how long games take on anything but the absolute smallest maps.
End of Tridus's quote

Tridius: That is the correct pricing info from all stated intents by Activision-Blizzard.  60$ for Wings and then 'expansion pricing(see 50) for each of the other 2 parts was the announced plan.  If you got some new not-released-to-the-public-info then do link it. Otherwise 60+50+50+tax/shipping = ~180.