Frogboy Frogboy

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from JoeUser Forums

Sorry we’ve not been posting as much. Things are moving so fast that it’s hard to keep up.

Some highlights of work this week:

  • Performance is MASSIVELY better.
  • Been doing a lot of focusing on stability.
  • Been tightening up the game mechanics considerably and taking into account the many discussions here.
  • Tactical battles are much better
  • AI is much better
  • A lot better filling out of the tech trees to balance things.
  • A lot of work on the quest system to have the quests and goodie huts be more rewarding

Things we’re still not happy with include but are not limited to:

  • The magic system. This deserves its own post so I won’t go into it. Elegance in a design document can be just work in a game.
  • The UI. We are going to update the UI but it’ll not be in the RTM version but will be in the v1.0 day 0 version. Right now, there’s just too many clicks.

I’ll post more as time permits. Stay tuned.

108,410 views 56 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm expecting a week from today.
End of quote

awwww... oh well get starcraft 2 in a few days so im good. but you better not take a brake for starcraft.

I thought from earlier posts it sounded like this is the last gameplay build we'd get until launch.
End of quote

3c is pretty basic for gameplay pretty shallow and unpolished.

Yea, Beta 3C is a distant memory at this point for us.
End of quote

for a budget of  5 million dollars you really are effective thats why i love stardock.

beta 3c seems pretty broken so far but its played the best since 2a

starcraft 2 had a budget upwards of 60 million ....

The UI. We are going to update the UI but it’ll not be in the RTM version but will be in the v1.0 day 0 version. Right now, there’s just too many clicks.
End of quote

ok now UI is pretty flawed at this point and you guys seems to be able to skin well as well as make things way easier in terms of stuff like Fences but if that means slowing down balancing as well as new features just work on the UI when you can't do anything else.

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

If you really had a corrupt system file it could be any number of things un-related to beta, but may have been triggered more by the beta. It could be bad ram, bad hard drive (or going bad)
End of quote

no it would be the beta had some graphical fuzzy pictures issues on my Xp Computer while on my brothers Win 7 it had no issues and was far more stable both had Nvidia Cards.

so far the changes at stardock would be quiet instant since they would fix it right away but they wouldn't be able to pick up issues from people with different system specs i would assume that stardock have about all the same computers or a few more variations of older or newer specs  so they relies on us to send in crash reports as well as the graphics one.

we only get a beta update once a week or basically once they got the build ready.

will Beta 4 contain more than just the mod tools
End of quote
it would just add the mod tools they are already using as well as update the game play / add more features

Best bet is to send the reviewers a copy they can download off Impulse,
End of quote
make sure you also say how many free more features plan to be added after release

The magic system. This deserves its own post so I won’t go into it.
End of quote
magic so far feels almost broken & useless in Beta 3c like to see how good its gotten for beta 4.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 24

Quoting Spitz, reply 23When do you expect we'll get to try out some of the new goodness. I'm a bit put-off from testing 3c since I'm not sure how much of the feedback I'd provide would be useful at this point and how much of it would simply be: "You're worried about that? We completely revamped that two days ago!"
I'm expecting a week from today.

Yea, Beta 3C is a distant memory at this point for us.  We've gotten a ton of great feedback from the community. It'll be pretty obvious pretty fast after running it that we were paying attention to the beta group.
End of Frogboy's quote
frogger, WILL we be receiving a 3D version?

harpo

 

 

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Sorry we’ve not been posting as much. Things are moving so fast that it’s hard to keep up.

Some highlights of work this week:


Performance is MASSIVELY better.
Been doing a lot of focusing on stability.
Been tightening up the game mechanics considerably and taking into account the many discussions here.
Tactical battles are much better
AI is much better
A lot better filling out of the tech trees to balance things.
A lot of work on the quest system to have the quests and goodie huts be more rewarding
Things we’re still not happy with include but are not limited to:


The magic system. This deserves its own post so I won’t go into it. Elegance in a design document can be just work in a game.
The UI. We are going to update the UI but it’ll not be in the RTM version but will be in the v1.0 day 0 version. Right now, there’s just too many clicks.
I’ll post more as time permits. Stay tuned.
End of quote

Sounds good Froggie. I am especially happy about the improved performance part, because the game tends to slow down occasionally -> extreme lagfest, and my comp is quite good...as for tactical battles, I can't wait to see that what was changed. Could you post some details about the changes to the tact. combat system?

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Murteas, reply 4
Frogboy said in another post that they typically review the day 0 version (i.e. RTM + day 0 patch).

 

So hopefully it will just be the pirates that get the lesser version.
End of Murteas's quote

 

Na I dont think so pirates get updates easy just look for them on the internet lol. And even C&C4 can be played online with a pirated version :/ so i dont think getting a update is even 0.01% hard for pirates :/ probably just 0%

Reply #31 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting SpaghettiMon, reply 25

Quoting Frogboy, reply 24
Quoting Spitz, reply 23When do you expect we'll get to try out some of the new goodness. I'm a bit put-off from testing 3c since I'm not sure how much of the feedback I'd provide would be useful at this point and how much of it would simply be: "You're worried about that? We completely revamped that two days ago!"

I'm expecting a week from today.

Yea, Beta 3C is a distant memory at this point for us.  We've gotten a ton of great feedback from the community. It'll be pretty obvious pretty fast after running it that we were paying attention to the beta group.
 

Does this mean we'll get another Beta 3 type build, or will Beta 4 contain more than just the mod tools? I thought from earlier posts it sounded like this is the last gameplay build we'd get until launch.
End of SpaghettiMon's quote

It would be kind of difficult to test the modding tools if you couldn't play a game with the things you modded in IMO. Not only do the tools have to work correctly the creations need to fuse with the game correctly as well. My guess is the next version has both but I could be wrong.

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Well, I think there will be people *attracted to* buying Elemental outright precisely because of the minimal (Impulse online version) to non-existent DRM (retail version - single player anyway ;-)).

Best regards,
Steven. 

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

The will review the Day 0 version.  the RTM version will be sent to get the DVDS printed and packaging in order.   But once  you load the game I suspect the day 0 update with be installed from the servers

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Denryu, reply 18
The community has been wondering why the magic system has not been part of the beta for a long time. For this game, magic should have been very central from the get go, and with the community feedback it is hard to imagine where that part of the game could be.

"We told you so!"

Live and learn, eh?
End of Denryu's quote

That's maybe a tad harsh, but maybe I'm a tad too optimistic about what the devs might pull out of their collective hat given their repeated claims of how 'easy' it is to do 'content' now that the engine is nearly finished.

It sure would have been nice to be able to discuss essence=mana cap with a magic-enabled build in our hands well before Brad et al adopted that as a locked down rule. Heck, it would have been wonderful to have had even half the give-and-take that's gone on for the mundane economy & knowledge trees. Maybe the 'other' (non-seafaring) expansion pack will be the thing that makes the game magic feel, well, magical, and not like a bunch of science fiction effects wearing fantasy costumes.

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Blazerules, reply 30


Quoting Murteas, reply 4Frogboy said in another post that they typically review the day 0 version (i.e. RTM + day 0 patch).

 

So hopefully it will just be the pirates that get the lesser version.


 

Na I dont think so pirates get updates easy just look for them on the internet lol. And even C&C4 can be played online with a pirated version :/ so i dont think getting a update is even 0.01% hard for pirates :/ probably just 0%
End of Blazerules's quote

 

I thought that wasn't the case with stardock games, where you have to log in to impulse to get the updates.    Stardock, IIRC, doesn't release patches separate from Impulse.  

Reply #36 from JoeUser Forums Top

They don't, but what's to say that Stardock doesn't have a few legit users who don't post on the forums that feel the need to crack the patches as they come down the pipes and post them to the pirate bay or whatever?

Reply #37 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting DoomBringer90, reply 36
They don't, but what's to say that Stardock doesn't have a few legit users who don't post on the forums that feel the need to crack the patches as they come down the pipes and post them to the pirate bay or whatever?
End of DoomBringer90's quote

All they really need is one user to repackage the (patched) game with a custom installer and distribute it via pirate bay or whatever. You can't stop piracy, it's an effort in futility to try and you end up inconveniencing paying customers more than the actual pirates when you do so. People playing with a pirated copy don't have to deal with all the copy protection BS a paying customer does and that's simply ridiculous. Stardock fortunately realizes this, if somebody wants to pirate something, they'll pirate it, that's a simple fact.

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

what's to say
End of quote

The fact that a cracked "patch" never appeared on TPB for, say, Sins. Now, updated games are another story. If someone can package 1.0 to throw up on TPB, they can package 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, etc to throw up on TPB.

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Slainangel52, reply 37

Stardock fortunately realizes this, if somebody wants to pirate something, they'll pirate it, that's a simple fact.
End of Slainangel52's quote

 

Yeah, too bad other game developers don't :(

I guess they are being idealistic or something to think they can develop THE system to end piracy. Like you said, it's up there with world peace, the end of poverty, and the end of crime. I.e. never going to happen.

Reply #40 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting VR_IronMana, reply 39

Quoting Slainangel52, reply 37
Stardock fortunately realizes this, if somebody wants to pirate something, they'll pirate it, that's a simple fact.
 

Yeah, too bad other game developers don't

I guess they are being idealistic or something to think they can develop THE system to end piracy. Like you said, it's up there with world peace, the end of poverty, and the end of crime. I.e. never going to happen.
End of VR_IronMana's quote

Pretty much, if there's somebody who can create a security system, there's somebody who can get around it as well. It's a never ending escalating battle that just creates more and more annoyances for the paying customer while only creating a slightly longer wait for a pirate release to occur.

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting VR_IronMana, reply 39

Quoting Slainangel52, reply 37
Stardock fortunately realizes this, if somebody wants to pirate something, they'll pirate it, that's a simple fact.
 

Yeah, too bad other game developers don't

I guess they are being idealistic or something to think they can develop THE system to end piracy. Like you said, it's up there with world peace, the end of poverty, and the end of crime. I.e. never going to happen.
End of VR_IronMana's quote

 

Oh :-( *disassembles  "Utopia device"*. I was about to turn it on too. Oh well...

 

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

It would be cool with some youtube vids of this new awesome build. :)

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

DO NOT TURN on that switch.

Your Utopia may screw up my Utopia.

Then neither of us would have the real Utopia we have created.. LOL #:( *_*

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Blazerules, reply 30


Quoting Murteas, reply 4Frogboy said in another post that they typically review the day 0 version (i.e. RTM + day 0 patch).

 

So hopefully it will just be the pirates that get the lesser version.


 

Na I dont think so pirates get updates easy just look for them on the internet lol. And even C&C4 can be played online with a pirated version :/ so i dont think getting a update is even 0.01% hard for pirates :/ probably just 0%
End of Blazerules's quote

 

Please use punctuation dude. I know this is the internet, but it makes reading what you have to say much easier if you actually put some effort into trying to make complete sentences.

 

Anyways, patches are not necessarily easy for pirates, especially for impulse/star dock games from what I've seen. Star Dock doesn't release a "patch" exe like most companies that can be cracked, it sends updated stuff and drm through impulse. Someone would either need to make a patch from scratch, or hack the DRM for every single version to keep it up to date. None but the most popular games get that kind of treatment. A lot of games, even with easy to crack patch.exe's don't stay completely up to date, unless there's a lot of demand from the pirate scene.

Also why make up percentages, when you obviously have no clue?

 

Quoting Slainangel52, reply 31

Quoting SpaghettiMon, reply 25
Quoting Frogboy, reply 24
Quoting Spitz, reply 23When do you expect we'll get to try out some of the new goodness. I'm a bit put-off from testing 3c since I'm not sure how much of the feedback I'd provide would be useful at this point and how much of it would simply be: "You're worried about that? We completely revamped that two days ago!"

I'm expecting a week from today.

Yea, Beta 3C is a distant memory at this point for us.  We've gotten a ton of great feedback from the community. It'll be pretty obvious pretty fast after running it that we were paying attention to the beta group. 
 

Does this mean we'll get another Beta 3 type build, or will Beta 4 contain more than just the mod tools? I thought from earlier posts it sounded like this is the last gameplay build we'd get until launch.

It would be kind of difficult to test the modding tools if you couldn't play a game with the things you modded in IMO. Not only do the tools have to work correctly the creations need to fuse with the game correctly as well. My guess is the next version has both but I could be wrong.
End of Slainangel52's quote

 

Haha yes obviously it'd be hard to test without the actual game. I thought that they would pretty much stop updating the actual gameplay of the game beyond 3c, and focus on updating the mod tools. Not that the gameplay part of it would be completely stripped.

 

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

agreed...i am calling blizzard right now...there will be no shipments of star craft 2 to Michigan for at least a month...anyone seen smuggling them across state lines will be beaten with baby seals.

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

there are alot of things that cant be pirated "fully", as in no updating with patches, playing online, etc. But I think like someone else said, if someone wants to, they'll pirate something, simple as that. even if it has to be with some features or patches.

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

for a budget of  5 million dollars you really are effective thats why i love stardock.
End of quote

$5 million? I would love to have that kind of money to do a game.

Elemental's budget is about half that and that includes the cost of developing its custom 3D engine.

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 47

for a budget of  5 million dollars you really are effective thats why i love stardock.
$5 million? I would love to have that kind of money to do a game.

Elemental's budget is about half that and that includes the cost of developing its custom 3D engine.
End of Frogboy's quote

in otherwords you are TWICE as effective as was supposed.

keep up the good work

harpo

 

Reply #49 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 47

for a budget of  5 million dollars you really are effective thats why i love stardock.


$5 million? I would love to have that kind of money to do a game.

Elemental's budget is about half that and that includes the cost of developing its custom 3D engine.
End of Frogboy's quote

I thought you said a while ago the total budget to make Elemental was under a million? Somewhere in the $800,000 range. Or was that a different quote I'm thinking of?

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 49


I thought you said a while ago the total budget to make Elemental was under a million? Somewhere in the $800,000 range. Or was that a different quote I'm thinking of?
End of Raven's quote

I think that was the budget for GalCiv2.  I may be mistaken as well, however, so it's probably best not to quote me on that.