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Elemental Beta 2-B Change log

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Elemental Beta 2-B Change log

from JoeUser Forums

For a lot of users, Beta 2-B is going to feel like several steps backwards in terms of playability and fun. We apologize in advance for that.

I myself have found the pre-beta 2b builds to be really painful and unfun so you have been warned.

The beta should be up tonight for those users already in the beta group.

Here are some of the things we’re looking for from the beta group:

  1. Suggestions and ideas on how you would like to manage spells. We’re working on this internally but we’ve love to hear your ideas.
  2. Suggestions and ideas on how you would like magical spells that stay in effect (do you want to require a mana cost or just have it be free? I’d rather see it be free otherwise players will have to run around dispelling things and that’s just tedious).
  3. Requests for types of quests you would like to see.
  4. Any other feedback you’d like to provide is welcome, particularly on things that make Magic and Adventuring a viable alternative to “mundane” strategies.

 

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----------------- Beta 2B Change Log  -------------

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****************

* Gameplay Tweaks *

+ Changed all improvements to start with a sensor range of 1, to be updated on completion to whatever value the improvement type uses

+ New map for beta 2B
+ Beta 2A map renamed Dragon
+ New spells added
+ New resource: Wild Garden
+ More balance to units

+ Added a player ability A_SpellPointCapBonus that gives a bonus to the max spell point cap of a faction

+ Added Administrative bonus to the city cost (primarily for the Civilized bonus)
+ Implemented the "StartingCity" tech for civilized (will cast the ground spell and create a city)

+ Added the "StartingCity" tech for Civilized

+ Changed RestoreGarden to place a wild garden instead of a fertile land resource hoard

+ Automatically unlocking resource hoard types is now data-driven, instead of listing resource types in CWorld::CreatePlayer to get them to be available off the bat 
+ New Realm descriptions for Empires/Kingdoms from the Hiergamenon
+ Fixed references to Telescope in Wild Goose Chase quest
+ Changed IceSpellbook to WaterSpellbook for consistency

- in NewCity(), commented out the code that was giving cities a starting population of 10.  The city hub changes its tile design based  on certain population thresholds, and by setting it to 10 right from the get-go, some of them were getting skipped
+ Created new Magic Resources
+ Hooked up Temples to Technologies 
+ Uncommented Basic Garden, renamed Display name to Basic Garden
+ Can now put defending unit game modifiers in tile design xmls, and if that tile design is used for a world prop, when a unit is on top of that world prop they will get the stat bonuses specified in the modifier

+ NPC's ability stats more properly balanced.

+ Lots of new goodie huts and question destinations
+ Lots of new quests
+ Several new monster units
+ New Spell: Summon Imp
+ New Spell: Summon Familiar
+ New Spell: Summon Wilding
+ New Spell: Summon Minor Elemental (earth, air, fire, water)
+ New Spell: Summon flowers (cosmetic spell)
+ New Spell: Summon mushrooms (cosmetic)
+ New Spell: Summon meadow (cosmetic)
+ New Spell: Beautify Land (cosmetic)
+ New Spell Book: Book of Restoration
+ New Spell Book: Book of Summoning
+ New Tech: Spell Control
+ New Tech: Technologies can give player access to spell books
+ Several new magical items players can get during higher level quests

+ Beta map is now sprinkled with bits of revived land
+ Normal size on units is now slightly smaller
+ Wolf is nerfed
+ New Spell: Brilliance. +1 to all research buildings and is part of the base spellbook
+ New Spell: Productive. +1 to all material producing buildings and is part of the base spellbook

+ Added UnlockAchievement(pPlayer->GetPlayerID(), ELEMENTAL_ACHIEVEMENT_ID_CAPTURED_A_CITY);
+ Added UnlockAchievement(ulKillerPlayerID, ELEMENTAL_ACHIEVEMENT_ID_MONSTER_KILLER);
+ Added UnlockAchievement(ulKillerPlayerID, ELEMENTAL_ACHIEVEMENT_ID_DEFEATED_ARMY);

+ Changed Iron(WeaponName) internal names to just (WeaponName) for consistency

+ Hooked up new Icons to Ancient Ruin Quest Tiles
+ Created Experienced Unit Quality Type
+ Fixed some NPC Backstory/Quote spelling errors

+ Spawn System Changed. There are now spawn levels for:
- The world's monster spawn level.
- The world's goodie hut spawn level.
- The world's NPC spawn level.
- The world's quest spawn level.
- The player's individual goodie hut level
- The player's individual NPC recruiting ability
- The player's individual quest level
+ When a player researches a technology that increases goodie hut or quest spawn level, it now checks to see if their level is equal to the world's. If it isn't, then it doesn't increment the world's spawn level.
+ Several new quests added
+ Adventure technologies updated to support the new spawn rating system.

+  Fixed the hedge wall, fort wall and fortress wall to provide +2, +4 and +8 defense respectively.

+ Created Stronger versions of existing potions
+ Renamed InternalNames for Book Of Experience for consistency
+ Created Archivist unit unlocked through Archiving technology

+ Moved all the improvement tiles that were in the core tiles directory into the improvements sub-directory
+ Moved all the quest tiles that were in core tiles to the quests sub-directory
+ Updated the beta map to have a lot more resources and goodie huts. WIP.
+ New resources added:
- Old Growth Forest. Build a lumber mill on this and you can get lots of materials. WIP.
- Pumpkin Patch. Build a farm on this to get food out of it. WIP.
- Enriched Land. Build a farm on this to get 500% more food.
+ AI updated to be more effective at building cities.
+ Familiar now uses bandit animation
+ Core Tiles loading now takes place in the XMLData load thread to speed up initial loading.

+ Added environment type short name to the terrain and environment draggable info card in the main game wnd

**********

* Bug Fixes *

+ Fixed bug where if game was saved while unit was playing an attack animation, it would play attack animation when game was loaded even though attack wasn't happening

+ Added call to UpdateFOW in StartConstruction
+ Added code to update sensor range to be same as improvement type's sensor range upon completion, with a min of 1

+ Fixed bug where Improvement was not updating FOW after being placed
+ Added check in DestroyImprovement which prevents the walls from being re-calculated unless the destruction leaves a tile completely empty
+ Added code in DestroyImprovemetn to mark the ZOC as dirty

+ Fixed GetBuildTownHallEssenceCost to actually get the essence cost from the spells instead of just setting it to 1

+ Fixed bug where IsActionAvailableToUnit would never let the negotiate action be available, because it would skip the logic for it

+ If no death flyback animations, units will play a regular death animation

+ In ApplyGameModifier_Map, fixed a crash if a CreateResourceHoard was given a non-existent resource type for a resource hoard, from a missing null pointer check

+ Fixed bug from the forums where experience books would not give experience points, but would instead adjust the experience stat of the unit that used them
+ Checked in elite catapult that Paul gave me before with the basic catapult, but that I didn't add at the same time

+  Found the inconsistency between how loaded improvements were built and how loaded "under construction" improvements were built.  The under construction ones would upgrade correctly but the built ones would not. Changed the code in City.cpp::LoadImprovementAndCreate() to fix the problem. Also updated the savegame version to 135 in Elemental.cpp.

+ BuildAllowedSubtileList() function wasn't taking into account the fact that resource hoards can now be created with spells and thus wasn't allowing improvements to be built on them.  Fixed.

+ Made IsTileEmpty more efficient

+  If an improvement requires a resource hoard, we no longer test for correct terrain after finding the hoard since the terrain is irrelevant.  
+  If an improvement requires that another improvement already be built we do not list it in the improvement list since we've no way to express to the user why it's greyed out.  (Example, the granary, which you can only build after building a farm, wheat farm, apiary or orchard.)

+ Fixed FindPath bug where the server wouldn't send the path if it was already calculated

+ Fixed bug where path tiles were not being saved in CEventData_UnitBuildTownHall

+ Fixed bug where resources would remain hidden if you uncovered them while in cloth map

+ Fixed bug where the riders on mounted units would always use their idle animation in a unit cutscene, no matter what the unit's animation was set/changed to

+  Made the city radius system check the actual XML to determine the build radius and made it more flexible. 

+ Improved the EndTurn function so that it does not iterate through the player list multiple times
- Combined similar code for calculating the population changes
+  Restored improvements showing up greyed out if the city is not of the appropriate level yet.
+  Fixed a case where a pointer to an improvement might be null before it is used, causig a crash.

+ Added     CImprovement* GetImprovementUnderConstructionByID( ULONG ulID );
+ Fixes to DestroyImprovement
    + Added call to apCopiedImprovements.reserve to optimize allocation time
    + Changed calls to apCopiedImprovements.insert to insert at end instead of beginning, which will use less copying
    + Changed loop that was adding other improvements not in same list as pImprovementToDestroy to use a call to std::find_if to find the improvement, and then used iterator arithmetic to do inserts, thus eliminating the need to do another find
    + Eliminated extra loop to search for improvement that we've already found

+  Found the inconsistency between how loaded improvements were built and how
   loaded "under construction" improvements were built.  The under construction
   ones would upgrade correctly but the built ones would not.

+ Missing Horse quest will now give a mounted unit that can be equipped (i.e. horse riding).

*****

* UI *

+ Flags in city and city wall gfx now display the correct team color
+ Fixed bug where if you equip/unequip items on champions in an army, the army's gfx wouldn't update
+ Improved the path and position of the "arrow" effect when using archers or other ranged units

+ Edge scroll speed now goes from 0 - 400, with 5 notches.  Max value + num notches are stored in prefs so that users can knock themselves out

+ Fixed color of flags (they were using the smart colors)
+ Added "No Scaling" unit scale option

+ Added call in SetOwner to update stats that go on the subwnd and tooltips (otherwise you have to end the turn to take effect
+ Added some new text for the spellbook
+ Added an entry on the page for the spell type

+ Added code to SetOwner to update EmpireTree
+ Added code in UpdateStats to update FOW if current sensor range has changed
+ Fixed bug where city wasn't updating empire tree if it wasn't the capital

+ Updated ImpulseReactor and overlay binaries, including new achievements screen
+ Checked in changes to catapult, adding annotations so elite catapults and both fallen catapults can launch projectiles when attacking
+ Added cooldown time and range to the spell info card

+ Made the "Mana:" text disappear when Mana is 0
+ Changed the "Cost" icon to the Spellbook (as is used elsewhere). Changed "Spellbook" icon to the wisdom icon to avoid confusion
+ Updated intro lore book text
+  A few changes to the build list - improvements will no longer show up if the city is not of the appropriate level.  They also won't show up in the list if the improvement requires a previous improvement that isn't built yet.

+ World prop bonuses will show up in the terrain info box, below any terrain bonuses

+ Added ability to set faction config metal color with <UnitMetalColor> tag, and added a metal color entry to the customize faction wnd
+ In the create sovereign wnd, the color swatch lets you set the metal color instead of the clothing colors
+ Removed metal color overrides from base sovereign and soldier unit types so that new units made during the game will be affected by the metal color of the faction

+ Updated Research Wnd

- Updated the OnBreakthroughSelected function to handle the new page format
- Updated the MSG_CUSTOM_LISTBOX_ENTRY_HIGHLIGHTED Callback to deal with now having 2 listbox's with highlighting
- Removed functions FillTechUnlockIconList and FillTechLeadsToIconList for FillTechPossibleList responsible for everything+ Gave new unit types in the create sovereign screen a default metal color of light grey, instead of black

+ Fixed bug where when you cast the create garden spell, the garden would not show up until FOW update
+ Overlay Fixes
- When in windowed mode having an overlay dialog open no longer stops you using the titlebar buttons or moving the window using the titlebar.
- The achievements option is back in the main menu (now that we have achievements)
- The achievements which have yet to be achieved now have grey text to better match the greyed out icons
- The mouse wheel is working again in the achievements window. 

+  Changed citybuilding so that you can no longer destroy an improvement that would
   make your city non-contiguous.  This shoud fix all of our city weirdness,
   including broken walls.
   +  Improvement.h/.cpp - removed the internal check for contiguity since this needed
      to be done at the city level.
   +  Added a new function CheckImprovementContiguityList() that takes a list of improvement
      pointers and checks to see if the defined city is contiguous.
   +  Changed DestroyImprovement() to build a improvement list without the improvement to
      be destroyed and to check if the city would still be contiguous.  If not, a message
      box pops up telling the user that they cannot destroy the improvement.
   +  Elemental.str - added strings for the new messagebox popup.

* MISC *

+ Added a spawn rating to CGoodieHutType, which defaults to -1. Currently, there is no spawn rating data set for any of the
  goodie huts.

+ Can now place random goodie huts in the map editor. As with NPCs, creatures and quests, you can specify if these random goodie
  huts are spawned at the start of the game, or when the goodie hut spawn rating level hits the appropriate value. A Spawn
  rating between 1 and 10 must be selected. When the map is loaded into a new game, it randomly selected which huts are placed
  at those locations. Only a goodie hut with a corresponding spawn rating will be placed; if one cannot be found, nothing will
  appear at that tile.

  The random selection is weighted using the rarity value  in the goodie hut type; a value between 0 and 100, it determines how
  likely it is that any given goodie hut will be chosen. A higher value makes a goodie hut more likely to be selected, while a
  rarity of 0 means it will never been selected.

  Goodie huts with the “spawn on level reached” option set get placed on the map when the goodie hut spawn rating reaches that
  level. As with the NPC, creature and quest spawn rating, this value is incremented with an “update spawn rating” game modifier
  is applied. These modifiers are identical to the NPC, creature and quest update spawn rating modifiers, only with the StrVal
  set to GOODIEHUT. Currently, there are no update spawn rating modifiers for goodie huts in any of the XML data.

- Cities start with population of 2 instead of 10.

+ Added game modifier for placing a world prop at a given tile (and here's an example):
    <GameModifier InternalName="Fortify">
              <ModType>Map</ModType>
              <Attribute>CreateWorldProp</Attribute>
              <StrVal>P_Fortify_01</StrVal>
        </GameModifier>

+ Automatically unlocking resource hoard types is now data-driven, instead of listing resource types in CWorld::CreatePlayer to get them to be available off the bat
    + Setting <NeedsToBeUnlocked> to 0 in the resource type xml will make it show up at the start of the game without needing a tech or anything to see it
    + To keep the same behavior as before, resource types default to TRUE for NeedsToBeUnlocked, so put <NeedsToBeUnlocked>0</NeedsToBeUnlocked> in any new resource hoard that you don't want the player to need a tech to see.

+ Can now permanently block off tiles from movement in the map editor using the “Blocked Tile” tool. Tiles blocked off appear
  with a red ‘X’ graphic. Once blocked off, no units will be able to enter that tile for the duration of the game.

+ Added the ability to specify a wander radius for NPCs and creatures in the map editor. When set to the default value, NPCs and
  creatures behave normally, but when overridden with a wander radius, that NPC/creature will patrol around their tile of origin
  within that radius. If set to 0, the NPC/creature will not move from their spawn tile.

+ If you turn down a quest after being offered one from a quest location, it removes it from the map.

 

NEXT WEEK

Next week begins the Beta 3 series!

With that all the technology trees get enabled, the Imperial factions get enabled, the minor factions get enabled, tactical battles will get enabled (beta 3A), and tons of other stuff get enabled.

160,548 views 91 replies +1 Loading…
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 24
Sure, it's a very clean design, TP.  So clean it doesn't display any of the unit stats. 
End of Frogboy's quote

Tooltips... ttooooooooollllttiiiiiipppppsssss :X

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting TheProgress, reply 26

Quoting Frogboy, reply 24Sure, it's a very clean design, TP.  So clean it doesn't display any of the unit stats. 

Tooltips... ttooooooooollllttiiiiiipppppsssss
End of TheProgress's quote

No thanks. I want to see my stats without having to monkey around with my mouse.  

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from JoeUser Forums Top

Is it unreasonable to hope that this unit actually means that event logs are going to be somewhat detailed and accessible via the game UI? Even if it took working a research tree and building a structure and a unit to station in it, I'd dearly, dearly love to be able to root through events from 20 or a 100 turns back when I'm considering a new situation.
End of quote

Archivist produce research points. There isn't an event log.

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting CariElf, reply 28
... There isn't an event log.
End of CariElf's quote

Not even something as simple as GC2 has now? That's both surprising and disappointing. I'd pay for an expansion pack that did nothing else but fund a good logging schema and a simple 'dashboard' to make it accessible in the game.

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

What do they do before you hire them?  Or are these trainable units, as opposed to NPC's who you hire?

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ddd888, reply 13

Quoting Autarkhos, reply 10I don't know if I do or don't appreciate a mana drain. If we've got a "max" mana, then it may be a good idea to go the Dragon Age route of "taking one off" the max mana. Therefore, the more / bigger longterm spells you cast, the less spells you can "barrage" at one time. So, if a player's got a bunch of world enchantments up, they can't go shooting fireballs out of their wazoo.

Then again, this all depends on whether spells are meant to be one shot things that last for a few turns (ie. you cast them and then they last for three or four turns) or things that can last for as long as the player wants to sustain them (ie. main drain over time with a lesser initial cost).

I'll make suggestions once I've played 2B. =p
 

dragon age system was shit

 

basicallly if you started with 2 3 buffs you couldnt cast anything

 

how can be fun a system that prevents you to do things?
End of ddd888's quote

I don't like the max mana route either, but IIRC the original idea was to drain it off your regen instead. So if you regen 5 mana a turn, then say "Ice Age" costs 2 regen. It doesn't lower your maximum mana, but it does take you longer to reach it while maintaining Ice Age.

There really should be an upkeep cost for the strong world affecting spells, in some form or another. Making you decide WHAT you can't afford to cast is important to making a fun game (just blowing everything up in sight with infinite magic doesn't stay fun very long compared to a game that forces real decision making).

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Point Frogboy. The 'you-must-mouseover-for-any-stats' model used by D3 is near useless in a large scale or strategic game. You need the data 'at a glance', not 'after I look at it'.  Mouseover tooltips should be reserved for either extremely indepth breakdowns, or Flavor descriptors.

Now on the subject of enchantments and magic.  I think a combination of AoW and DA systems would be best here.  I.E. if you have a number of towers/magefoundries/manaholdingbuildings then unit enchants would be pulled from those first.  However you would be allowed to spend yourself into 'debt' on enchantments, which would reduce the sovereigns spellcasting in some fashion (be it regen/maxmana/etc).

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

I would like to see spell upkeep on a more personal level instead of drawing power from any buildings. It should be the caster personally maintaining the spells, possibly drawing the power from shards, to avoid city and magic building spam.

The most powerful spellcaster should be the one that does not waste essence on cities beyond the first.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Greetings, happy to hear the game is coming along nicely. Regarding the city building someone mentioned in the forums the idea to add tabs to the build improvement. And I agree that making the icons dissapear instead of graying em out isn't the best thing imo. I want to add to the tab idea by saying that a "Build Tree" tab could be added that could visually tell you what you need to build prior to getting a building. Now I honestly don't know if this would make it any easier or harder but I made an example as to what I'm trying to explain.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8088480/BuildSuggested.JPG

Its a rather crappy Bitmap edit, but in it you can see that in order to build a barrack, first you need the command post. I added a red 3 in the corner to indicate a level 3 town is required (but im not sure on this atm). 

PS: Can anyone tell me why the only way I can add a picture is by adding the link? It doesnt want to appear in my post body, please PM if you do ty!

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

I'd be very happy with no upkeep for ongoing spells.  I'm a big fan of feeling like a badass as a sovereign, for the single player campaign.  That said, I know a lot of players want some form of upkeep.  This would be of particular import for multiplayer.  Perhaps even handling magic slightly differently in multiplayer would be worth consideration, or not due to release date constraints.

 

Dragon Age has it's faults sure, but it worked out alright if you built your characters a certain way.  That said, I don't think permanent decrease in mana (for duration of spell) is the way to go for Elemental.

 

Perhaps, as has been suggested, a decrease in the mana regeneration rate would work well.  Having not really used magic at all myself yet (but greatly looking forward to it in 2-B!) I'm not familiar with how regeneration works behind the scenes, so I'm not sure if this is an easy route on the coding side.  I do think it'd be a nice balance between being able to cast lots of spells, and still having to pick and choose in the long run what you want to have ongoing vs. what you want to have available come fighting time - especially in multiplayer.

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 31
... Making you decide WHAT you can't afford to cast is important to making a fun game (just blowing everything up in sight with infinite magic doesn't stay fun very long compared to a game that forces real decision making).
End of Tridus's quote

Isn't it really about what you can afford to maintain in addition to what you can afford to cast? Some MoM overland spells were one-time costs, but others had a base cost plus maintenance. The difference forced me to think about short and long term mana spending simultaneously, and I liked that.

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

It would be interesting if when a wizard creates a permanent spell they tie it to a physical object, trinket or something.  (ie casting the spell makes a magic trinket)  And whomever is holding the trinket gets their total mana reduced to make up for having to channel energy continuously into the object.

 Should the holder of the object die the people/creature that killed em get to loot the object and either maintain or destroy the spell  (possibly reversing the spell or moving it or something if they're a caster as well?)

 

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

"If an improvement requires that another improvement already be built we do not list it in the improvement list since we've no way to express to the user why it's grayed out.  (Example, the granary, which you can only build after building a farm, wheat farm, apiary or orchard.)"
End of quote

How about if an Item has an Improvement that can be added, it would sport a + symbol in its listing box that when clicked open another list showing the specific Improvements.

That symbol could be used for multiple levels of depth.

+Farm - click the plus - Granary is shown. the others, (wheat farm, apiary or orchard) would also have +'s

Example:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8370296/Elemental_1277506908.jpg

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top



 Suggestions and ideas on how you would like to manage spells. We’re working on this internally but we’ve love to hear your ideas.

I'll need to give this some thought.

Suggestions and ideas on how you would like magical spells that stay in effect (do you want to require a mana cost or just have it be free? I’d rather see it be free otherwise players will have to run around dispelling things and that’s just tedious).

I like the GalCiv2 model - offer an option to pay "the full price" up front, or a MUCH lower amount with a maintenance cost. Downside of offering that option is is it just one more decision for the AI to have to deal with, and it may not deal with it intelligently. This option really makes MORE sense for this game than it did in GalCiv, as in GalCiv it was just a financing choice. In this game, you might only NEED an effect for 20 turns, and so it would make more sense to take the maintenance option, whereas an effect that you wanted permanent (barring dispelling of course) it would make more sense to pay the full mana cost. But again this might add a level of complexity that would be hard to make the AI intelligent about (i.e. casting a permanent spell 10 turns before it was going to win the game.) So I will leave it to your consideration.

Requests for types of quests you would like to see.

Well, this is an area I have high hopes for. I have proposed this before and never really got a response as to whether you liked teh idea, were already heading in this direction, or were going in a completely different direction. I would like to see a lot of different low level quests. At game generation some of these low level quests should be flagged that as an OPTIONAL reward they could give clues that would lead into mid range quests. You might even have to do an additional quest for the low level quest giver to get the information, and the information MIGHT lead to a dead end. The same process would continue up thru progressive levels to the Master Quest that is a Quest Victory. At the higher levels even getting to the quest giver should be difficult and dangerous, not to mention the quests that they send you on.

  A simple way to think of it is to think of the different levels of quests as concentric rings, with the Master Quest in the middle and the starter quests as the outer ring. Consider the quest givers that can give you information to access the next level as "gatekeepers". Of the bottom level quests I think that roughly 20% would be what I call Excellent Gatekeepers and 20% Mediocre Gatekeepers, and the other 60% non gatekeepers. They just give you your reward for doing the quest.

  The difference between a Excellent Gatekeeper and a Mediocre one is this: An excellent Gatekeeper will send you to a contact in the next level of quests WHO IS ALSO a gatekeeper (either Excellent or Mediocre himself). A mediocre gatekeeper will send you to someone who WILL give you a next level difficulty quest, but who is not a gatekeeper. However, that person would then give you information to a Gatekeeper at his own level.

Each quest level could have requirement in adventuring research to actually be able to do the quest. Also, obviously the quests will get progressively harder in higher levels, so you champion and his group will need to be advanced enough with equipment and experience to successfully navigate the quest tree.

It is a bit complicated to explain, I will diagram it and put a link to it that may help explain. 

 https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/questpaths.JPG?w=de5095f7

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

What about decreasing the effectiveness of all spells, the more you have active at once. Depending on what spells we have to choose from in this game, you could either have a lower or higher penatly if the sustained spells were from the same spell book  than if they were from a different one.  You would not be limiting the player, just making them consider their choice more carefully.

This could however become a balancing nightmare and depending on how spell stats are displayed, might be tricky to inform the player what is going on.

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

The beta is up BTW.

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

Does this changelog apply to the patch that just hit Impulse, or to an update pending?  (Since there isn't a 'Beta 2B is here!' thread)

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

i don't know, i don't really see the need for upkeep.  the way i look at it is that once the magic is put into an effect then it resides there.  i think however magic that affects the overland map should have very high costs.  think of it as making magic the sort of life force for an effect.  for stuff like raising and lowering land, once that is done then no more magic is needed.  for creating life, or doing something that's gonna require energy then using the magic to give it self sustaining life will be very expensive.

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GW, reply 36

Isn't it really about what you can afford to maintain in addition to what you can afford to cast? Some MoM overland spells were one-time costs, but others had a base cost plus maintenance. The difference forced me to think about short and long term mana spending simultaneously, and I liked that.
End of GW's quote

yeah that's true. It really depends on the spell, and doesn't have to apply to everything. But it seems like maintaining something like a magical ice age should probably be rather taxing.

Reply #45 from Elemental Forums Top

oh man theres a 3 and thennnn 3A?

 

Having most of us played MoM we can agree that the magic system was genius. But i dont think there was a display active spell page. That would solve everything. So controlling upkeep for summons shouldnt be annoying at all, and MoM in addition had research mana and power.

Reply #46 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 44

It really depends on the spell, and doesn't have to apply to everything. But it seems like maintaining something like a magical ice age should probably be rather taxing.
End of Tridus's quote

 

I have to agree here.. some spells bang over with For example:

(totally made up spells for this)

Meteor Storm: instant cost and effect..

Death Fog: instant cost with a several turn duration so cost higher.

the a fore mentioned Ice Age: instant cost with duration as long as maintenance paid..

these could as easily be for other types

Rain of Fish: instant cost and effect.. (think food increase)

Golden Age: instant cost with duration as long as maintenance paid.. (think extra cash or research)

the maintain type spells should have higher costs to cover their longer term benefits..

 

 

Reply #47 from Elemental Forums Top

Strange, I thought custom factions were to be enabled in this beta; was that delayed to beta 3? Otherwise just starting my game up for beta 2 now!

 

:D

Reply #48 from Elemental Forums Top

MoM system did ALOT of things right.

The magic system which governed mana in research, power, and gathering (?) was very easy to use. Only thing missing would of been a screen showing which spells you currently have cast and how much mana its costing you.

It wont be bothering the player at all Upkeep is easy to manage if you guys wish to have it.

Reply #49 from Demigod Forums Top

It doesn't play well on dual screens. :-( It keeps crashing for me and the city rarely is rendered properly and sometimes the game locks up and I can't advance turns. I get errors saying "Failed to initialize to a display!" and I have to control-alt-delete. 

I have 2x Radeon 5850 in Crossfire on 2 widescreen 24" monitors at 1080p. I've yet to have this happen before this beta. 

Reply #50 from Elemental Forums Top

Long-term spells could require some sort of "spell slot" for their upkeep, so they don't affect mana beyond the initial casting cost. This would cut instant effect spells out of any micromanaging, and make it so the player can tell how many long-term spells they can have active at a glance, without the need to do any math regarding mana regeneration. Max mana and slots could then represent two separate research/questing branches: Some players would emphasize mana so they can use powerful spells or maintain a reserve so they can play in a reactive fashion, while others would emphasize slots, letting them maintain a large number of enhancements, defensive spells, and/or sapping spells.

Whatever is decided upon, it should require the player to make choices that exclude one another, so it would be difficult to rapidly change playing styles within a single game, requiring long-term strategic thinking to better one's chances of success.