Heartblades

and other specialty weapons

from Elemental Forums

You might have heard my statements on an Iron weapon costing X iron (say 4 iron), while a Steel blade might cost say 6-8 iron, and a refolded steel blade costs more, ect.

Well, beyond simple refolded steel, I thought "why stop there" when we could go beyond the realistic and into the legendary as far as masterwork blades of intricately refolded steel that is even more relatively powerful than its historical (and extremely deadly) counterpart.

Given the examples below, a truly well made historical Japanese Katana would be the 12 attack Katana requiring 20 iron (in this example) ... thas just how much better they were than the average katana, or a Toledo steel blade for that matter. Anyways, going even beyond that we have the "placeholder" Hittori Hanzo swords ... as an example of a mass producable legendary blueprint.

Also for your reading pleasure we have my Original Idea the Heartblades ... blades only forge-able with the aid of a Dragon's bloody heart.

 

Having "specialty weapons" (like Katana +1, although in this case it would be Katana +3...) should cost significantly more Iron.

This could be tweaked by balanced, but lets say a regular Katana of 6 attack costs 5 iron, while a prized Katana +3 (9 attack) uses 10 iron, and a master work 12 attack Katana could require 20 iron.

To represent the extra time it takes to forge such weapons, as well as the more metal (although perhaps not *as much* more) required for the process of multiple refoldings.

A theoretical Hittori Hanzo Katana would require a special Quest-gained technology, have 24 attack, and would require 50 iron.

Now, the numbers could be tweaked ... even to the point of a 1:1 ratio if Swarm tactics prove more effective than giving an awesome super weapon to a leveled Champion (although I would hope this were not the case).

Additionally, perhaps training a soldier with such a specialized weapon would add extra turns to the "training time" although it would probably be better to store this extra time as a necessary material for item creation. Abstract perhaps, yet if you were forging a Hittori Hanzo blade for your Soveriegn, it would still take say 5 turns (or so) for the weapon to be created (as opposed to immediately).

Perhaps an additional requirement of the Hittori Hanzo blade (placeholder name for a buildable, mass producible, super weapon that is found via questing) could be that only one such blade could be under production at a single time (within a city). This could be facilitated by having the blade require a special building be present within the city. My preference would be that the building would be a national wonder ... meaning any given faction can only build one such building at any one time. Therefore, you can only build one Hanzo blade at any one time, and only in one city, and only after you build the special building. If its just blue-prints for a one-time legendary weapon, however, then it doesn't need any such restrictions because you would need to obtain a very rare material for creation.

Below lies the Heartblade

Personally I would like to see a Weapon (or armor) blueprint that has under required materials a Dragon's Heart. (Heartblade) ... then, for any given Heartblade (at the time of creation) you can make it more powerful by adding more gold and magic crystals (like a slider system for price/utility). Then, there would be several optional *specialty* materials (can only choose one specialty material) ... like a Sapphire Orb, Talisman of Souls, or Obsidian Mirror. Depending on the specialty material used, the Heartblade takes a different form with different special powers (in addition to the already potent Attack skills of the weapon).

For instance, the Heartblade without any specialty materials could have a high attack (17), with a 33% chance of a "heart strike" which automatically deals 5 damage regardless of attack role (except vs large creatures) and adds +10 to the attack role. The 5 damage would not stack with sucessive damage dealt by the attack role, so if the attack of 27 dealt 5 points of damage (after initial 5) then it wouldnt ... as in only 5 points of damage would be dealt. However if the attack of 27 dealt 10 points of damage, then 5 additional points of damage would be dealt.

Vorpal Heartblade (Talisman of Souls) would give +1 death damage for each strike, as well as slowly draining the morale of nearby opponents.

Pristine Heartblade (Obsidian Mirror) would have a 25% chance of reflecting damage that would of been recieved, and instead inflicting it on the attacker. This works for magical attacks too. Pristine Heartblade also grants the wearer immunity to fear, poison, and disease.

Glimmering Heartblade (Sapphire Orb) doubles the attack speed of the wielder. Extra speed (over 10) is translated into increased attack. 20% chance to evade physical attacks, 10% resistance to magical attacks. Immunity to fatigue and time spells, as well as a 33% evasion chance for single target magical attacks.

Eaglet Heartblade (Silver Goblet) doubles movement speed and allows flight. Immunity to Air magic, and 75% resistance to ranged physical attacks.

Carnal Heartblade (Female Champion/Princess"death"- or - Ruby of Desire) +2 attack speed, +4 strength, 50% of damage dealt is absorbed back into the wielder (for a temporary max of 150% total HP, meaning a 60 HP champion could hold 90 HP during a battle, after absorbing 30 HP). 20% resistance to physical damage, 50% resistance to fire damage. 20% weakness to ice damage.

Adamantine Heartblade (Adamantium Ore (rare) + Crystal of Resonance (moderate/uncommon)) wielder is 80% resistant to physical damage, and 50% resistant to magical damage

Golden Heartblade (Heart of Midas) each kill turns into gold (+50 gold for a human, +200 gold for medium sized monster, +500 gold for large monster, +1000 or so gold for gigantic monster kill). In addition, 80% chance to evade any lethal attack ... if Golden Heartblade user has 4 HP, and an attack deals 5 damage, the user has an 80% chance to completely dodge the attack.

Silver Heartblade (Tooth of the Silverine)- ignore 50% of the defender's defense rating. (alternatively, ignore non-magical equipment based defense)

Mystic Heartblade (Statue of Jade)- ignore status affecting magical attacks, ignore opponents magical defenses (vs damage or status affects), 50% resistance to magical damage

Static Heartblade (Jewel of Zeus)- +5 electric damage with each attack, 85% resistant to electrical damage

 

All Heartblades (or other unique/extremely rare weapons for that matter) drop onto the battlefield after the wielder has been slain. Such weapons appear as loot for the victor of the battle.

11,501 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

The idea is that each of the specialty items are in themselves rare, with maybe a 20-30% chance of showing up each game, and even harder to find even when they are within a game.

As you can see, there are many more types of Heartblades than there would be Dragons on any given map. Even rarer, of course, is the person crazy enough to spend so many resources to hunt down and kill a dragon that isn't threatening their kingdom.

Therefore ... the Heartblade is incredibly hard to get, and the Special versions of the Heartblades are incredibly rare and even harder to get (usually at least a couple specialty items per game ... but really hard to get, and each type of specialty is found in a different type of locale, so you never actually know where to look) -> sometimes a specialty item could be right under your nose and you don't realize it.

In any case, the combination of relative rarity and raw difficulty makes owning or wielding an Advanced Heartblade is incredibly prestigious ... roughly equivalent to building a Diamond Golem.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea of your heartblades/dragonarmour.   I also like the idea that you can only have one of them for each dragon heart you acquire (assuming dragons are rare in game).

However, your fancy mass producable pblade that you must acquire the "recipe" for before being able to build it, in my opinion, would be extremely poor game mechanic.  This is because it would create a "recipe" hunt in EVERY GAME.  Which I think is bad because it would severely limit play styles.  Conversely, if your "recipe" blade was only SLIGHTLY better than the best researchable weapon (of the same type), then perhaps tying the "recipe" weapon to a finite resource (not as rare as dragon hearts), either found at the same time as the recipie or to be acquired later, would give enough reward for the risk, but not cause every game to be a hunt for the "recipie".

eg:  best researchable blade = 10 attack (I made that up :P).   Recipie exists for blade that would have 12 attack.  Recipie requires Earth Enchanted Obsidian Ore (EEOO).  The EEOO can only be acuired AFTER you have the recipie.  The EEOO will only exist at(or around?) Earth shard locations.  EEOO will not be more than X amount at each Earth shard location.  EEOO is NON-Regenerating.

I believe this example would give enough reward based on the risk of getting the recipie (please don't have it lying around in the open by itself!!!), not unbalance the game, and not create a recipie hunt because you can at most build 1 army unit with the extra attack.

PS:  If implemented, this should not be limited to equip that has increased stats.  But should grant equipment with Modifying abilities (Invisibility, Spell Turning, etc).  ie things other than hit harder or resist more!!!!

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Eh ... it sounds like more of a gimp than a balanced alternative. I would rather have the Hittori Hanzo blade only buildable in one city at a time, and requiring 20 turns to complete (or 30), rather than to make it weaker.

I'd even through in a maximum, like you can only have 5 total or something (although that would take 100 turns of dedicated Hanzo forging). But maybe that's just my level of attachment to Kill Bill

Yea, I agree with a generic, randomly found recipe, that it should be something weak like you suggested. However the Hanzo blade ... could be part of a stock quest that is relatively easy to find (but hard to complete, takes a long time and many battles/bosses) ... in addition to taking 10+ turns to build and limiting them to 5.

 

On another note, I am glad you like my Heartblade idea ;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Sounds like your Hanzo blades are more like the heartblades :).  Just a different version, maybe slightly easier to acquire, but less powerful too.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Yep, I suppose you could say that. Finding the Quest for the Hanzo blade should require a mid-level Adventure tech(lv 7+), and completing the Hanzo quest (final dungeon) should probably require a red-level Adventure tech (that turns yellow at Adventure level 14??)

Meanwhile getting a Dragon Heart requires finding a Dragon (much easier) and killing a Dragon (much, much Harder!!! requires massive army, or super soldiers, or both)

 

The main difference between the Hanzo blade and the Heartblade, however, is that with minimum gold + magic crystal cost, the Heartblade (other than the Heartstrike skill) is slightly weaker than Hanzo. Then, if you max the cost of gold and crystals, the Heartblade is stronger than the Hanzo even in terms of base attack. Hanzo, meanwhile, requires a lot more Iron, as well as actual time/turns to complete (while the Heartblade is immediate)

The Specialty Heartblade is the main reason to seek a Dragon Heart. Things like the Adamantium Heartblade make specialties easily 10x more powerful than a default, non specialty Heartblade. (due to special powers/ comic book level powers)

Specialty Items could also be best described as being 2x as difficult to find as a Hanzo blueprint. You might even find a chain of quests which brings you back to your very own Tavern!! Maybe the Tavern is an ancient mage that owns the Silver Goblet. You'll have to either pay him off or kill him, and sometimes he might flee to another nation. Then you'll have to diplomatically get the nation to turn him over, or be forced to invade if you want the specialty item.

This is just an example of the types of things I had in mind. Sometimes finding a Special is like finding a super rare Alchemy Ingredient or Item in a random chest in Oblivion/ Morrowind. Its unexpected, and immediately top priority to get out of that dungeon alive.

// I feel like the Hanzo quests would have to be tied in with Gangs or Yakuza at some level. Maybe the final dungeon is lair to a powerful mob-boss or bandit lord ... and maybe he is actually not human, but a demon ...

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

suggested methods for finding/ placing the Specialty Items

 

Saphire Orb - in 5% of the games is random loot in dungeon chests (appears only once per game this way), in another 20% of games you can find it in the bedroom of the Jade Empress (head consort to the Mafia Boss of the Southern Crystal Bandit Ring), within the cavernous temple in the side of the Volcanoe.

The empress will probably try to kill you (even if the Saphire Orb isn't there) and she has some pretty strong body guards- be warned. The other 75% of games the Saphire Orb doesn't show up.

Talisman of Souls- 30% of games, can be found within the torture chambers of a Dark Manor within the Deadlands. Usually such a Manor is ruled by a demon or an independent fallen lord. Many roaming, mindless undead might be found within this location as well ... especially the torture chamber itself (a lot of half-tortured zombies). Another 20% of games its random loot within the Catacombs of the Dead -> usually found within a coffin. Warning, many powerful creatures of the dead are magically trapped in such coffins ... so searching in this fashion might prove deadly lethal. Another 10% of games its random loot in random dungeons within the Deadlands. If the Talisman of Souls is random loot within a given game of Elemental, it may show up a maximum of two times (two copies).The other 40% of games the Talisman of Souls doesn't show up.

Tooth of the Silverine- The Silverine is a monstrous wolverine with the size and coat of a Polar bear, with the rough shape and agility of a Wolf (but stockier like a Tasmanian Devil). In 20% of games, the Silverine shows up in the Icy Northern Wastes once every 20 turns, wanders for 6 turns, and then disappears for another 20 turns. In another 20% of games, the Silverine makes his home in one of the many rooms of the Icy Caverns high up within the Alpine Mountains. IF you kill the Silverine, you will gain two suitable Teeth of the Silverine. The other 60% of games the Silverine does not show up.

The Adamantium Ore ... occasionally you might find a small deposit of adamantium naturally which has, maybe 5-10 units of adamantium. Meanwhile, 30-50 units of Adamantium lie within a collection of stones and stone-ware gaurded by a mighty Basilisk. There are three Larger-than-Life Basilisks in elemental (one in the desert, one in the jungle, and one in a swamp) ... and each has a lair of largely worthless stoneware among its "treasure." In 30% of games, one of these lairs contains a great pile of 30-50 units of Adamantium (it requires 20 units Adamantium to build the Adamantine Heartblade).

Crystals of Resonance- random loot within Astral Temple, Temple of Ganeshka, and Temple of the Mountain God. In every game, but relatively uncommon loot.

Statue of Jade- 50% of games you can find a statue of Jade within the quarters of the High Priest within the Temple of Ganeshka in the southern Jungles ... within the same jungle where the (Southern) Crystal Bandit Ring operates. The Temple of Ganeshka has been long over-run with monsters and beasts making their lairs within various rooms of the Temple. You can get the Statue of Jade inspected. Half the time you find the Statue of Jade (25% of games) the Statue isn't high enough quality (which means the other half you can use it in creating the Mystic Heartblade).

Silver Goblet- in 40% of games, the Silver Goblet may be found within the Catacombs of the Temple of the Mountain God, carved into the side of the Alpine mountains. Another 20% of games  it will belong to a shady Tavern-keeper/ Inn-keeper somewhere on the map (in such a game, if no Taverns/Inns are built, the Goblet doesn't appear until such a building is built). Another 5% the Goblet shows up as random loot within Kingdom lands or Wasteland (inside a dungeon). Another 10% the Goblet shows up once within a store (once it shows up in a particular store, it stays there until its either bought or the city is razed ... if the city is razed, then the aggressor gains the Goblet as loot.

Jewel of Zeus- in 25% of games, is random loot within the temple of Ganeshka. In another 25% of the games, is random loot in the temple of the Mountain God. Other 50% doesn't show up.

Obsidian Mirror- in 45% of games, is found within a random coffin within the Temple of Lost souls among the deadlands. Connected to the Catacombs of the Deadlands. In 10% of games, is random loot within the Astral Temple, in the middle of a forbidden desert. Temple is in a windblown valley guarded by a great Sphinx-like beast. other 45% of games the Obsidian Mirror doesn't show up.

Heart of Midas- in 30% of games, found within the Priestly quarters within the Astral Temple. In 20% of games, random loot within the temple of Ganeshka. 50% of games doesn't show up.

Ruby of Desire- in 40% of games, is found within the private quarters of the Madame of "Valley of Sin" a cathouse in the "capital city" of the southern jungles -> overseen by the Crystal Bandit Ring. In 10% of games is random loot within the Cavernous Jade temple in the side of a Volcano (HQ of the Crystal Bandit Ring). Other 50% of games, it doesn't show up. To get this Heartblade, however, you can also sacrifice a female character/Champion on the same altar where you forge the Heartblade to get the desired effect (Carnal Heartblade).

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

While I like the idea of specialty weapons and armor. I beleive they should not only take the time and special resources like you said. But also require a special building for their manufacture, something like the enchantment foundry. And be limited to Sovereign/Champions.

  The idea of being able to build a legion in full Dragon Armor and Heartblades (Yeah the resource requirements would make this a virtual impossibilty probably but) to even be remotely feasiable just seems to either cheapen or overpower standard units that called Standard units for a reason.

And the list of your special items is awesome, especially if they were up for trade during diplomatic conversations.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

XeronX ... its not anywhere close to a remote possibility that you would be able to outfit a legion, or even a company, of heartblades.

The most you might be able to outfit is a party (4 people) with heartblades ... but that would require sacrificing 4 armies to kill 4 different dragons (by that time, your enemies definitely would invade and take your cities)

Also, when I say a specialty item is random loot (other than the Talisman of Souls which may appear twice among the Catacombs) all Special items are only once per game. So, the ability to get a special item relies on a lot of luck (won't always be there), knowing where to go (through maps from Adventure tech), and also being the only one to have that specialty item.

The one good thing about heartblades and specialty items is that they cannot be destroyed. If a city with a heartblade is razed, the attacker gets the blade as loot (assuming its in a store or item bank). If the wielder of the heartblade is killed, then the winner of the battle gets it as loot. This means, that if a monster kills a heart-blade wielder (and wins the rest of the battle) ... for the rest of the game (until killed) that monster will also be carrying a heartblade (in its stomache?) as loot. If its a monster that can use a sword, it will probably be WIELDING the heartblade o.O ... talk about a Boss in mook's clothing.

If someone lost their heartblade due to deaths, ect, they can sell the location of their fallen heartblade to someone else as a diplomatic tool. The other party will have to decide what the information is worth ... whether it be much gold, materials, military aid, or other such things. Also, the trade will be on an "adventure map" -> which adventure techs give you <- which highlights where the Heartblade is, and makes it an icon. If its on/in/wielded by a monster, then the Heartblade icon will move with the monster's (limited) movements.

I somehow doubt that there will be more than 5 dragons on a given map ... and you have to remember there will be Sovereigns who would rather recruit and use the dragon during battle (for their nation) rather than to kill the dragon and use its heart for a heartblade.

Therefore, its an overall strategic decision, and can also be incentivising (if you randomly happen to find the only Saphire Orb in the game, while questing ... do you decide to kill a dragon for the Glimmering Heartblade? Do you keep it to prevent others from using it, while instead recruiting a dragon through adventure diplomacy? Or do you sell it to others via diplomacy? You might be able to wield a temporary military alliance vs your enemy of choice if a Saphire Orb is on the line)

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

The heartblade sounds like a nice reward for killing a dragon, apart from all the other cool loot I'm sure you'll find in the dragon's hoard. On the topic of special items, or magical items, if they are in the game I would like to see the adventuring techs give you an edge in finding these hidden treasures, as this means it won't be entirely luck based. Sending out skilled adventures all across the land to hunt down those ancient artifacts of power would be a lot of fun.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

yea, certain Adventuring Techs will unlock the Lairs where you might find rare items ... as well as mark the location of said Dungeons/Temples on your map.

Higher up Adventuring Techs will mark the locations of specific items ... for instance, a Tech might be "Mapped Locations of all Rarity-3 Ancient Artifacts"

(this is what I hope for)

Meanwhile, specific God-like weapons might have a tech devoted entirely to them ... however these specific techs only show up in games when they are present.

For instance, lets say there is a God-Hammer (something) ... that shows up in 5% of games. In those 5% of games, there is a tech that shows up as red for Tech Level 25, and stays red indefinitely. This tech will grant you the specific marked location of the God Hammer (which may be fairly random in any given game).

Even while you might find the God Hammer before this tech ... You'll only its a God Hammer once you reach ... say Adventure tech-level 20. Before that, it will have the stats of a regular (sub-par) hammer and be named (Indecipherable Hammer Artifact).

As well, I hope many Ancient Artifacts will require a certain Adventuring tech-level to identify (and thus gain full power).

 

//Also, only identified ancient artifacts and completed superweapons can be destroyed for essence. Parts/Materials and Unidentified artifacts CANNOT be absorbed as essence.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

That's kind of what I'm thinking as well, would be fun if you could actually bet on adventuring as a legitimate strategy in the game. Would be a very different type of strategy compared to most tbs games. Curious to find out how the Master Quest (or whatever it's called) is going to work, I'm guessing that's tied to the adventure tech tree in some way as well.

Oh, and about magical items, here's hoping their actually unique and special. To be honest I'd rather have less of them and have them do truly unique things than have +1 swords lying scattered about all over the place.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Thought it might could use a bump, now that we have more beta testers, etc.