Books/Movies/Games that have inspired Elemental?

I was wondering what books, movies, and other games have inspired the development of Elemental.  I know Master of Magic is a big one, and I read somewhere that the team was also inspired by George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.  Are there any others that have especially influenced the various aspects of Elemental (the gameplay, story/world, art design, music, etc.)?

I only recently pre-ordered my copy of Elemental, so now I must patiently wait to be let into the beta.  I thought it would be fun to check out Elemental's inspirations while I wait.  Just last night I picked up A Game of Thrones from my local bookstore (I've never read the series, despite being a big fantasy fan.)

Are there any other major influences that would be worth mentioning?  Some of my guesses: Lord of the Rings, Ultima, Heroes of Might and Magic...

6,549 views 17 replies
Reply #1 Top

...with regard to games: IIRC MoM, AoW1-2-SM[?], Dominions 3, Civ4-FFH2.

Reply #2 Top

GalCiv 2 ;P

Reply #4 Top

books. Apparently you need to read some George R.R. Martin.

Reply #5 Top

KellenDunk, I'm not sure I understand your post.  I mentioned George Martin in my original post (that he supposedly influenced the Elemental team and that I picked up his first Ice and Fire novel last night).  Please clarify?

Reply #7 Top

I seem to remember frogboy talking about how The Lord of the Rings is a big influence on the lore.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting GreenIsles, reply 5
KellenDunk, I'm not sure I understand your post.  I mentioned George Martin in my original post (that he supposedly influenced the Elemental team and that I picked up his first Ice and Fire novel last night).  Please clarify?
End of GreenIsles's quote

I guess I just skimmed your post.  I was just repeating you then.  The only thing of his that I've ever read is Sandkings.  and although that seems like it could make a fun strategy game I know it has nothing to do with elemental.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 8

I guess I just skimmed your post.  I was just repeating you then.  The only thing of his that I've ever read is Sandkings.  and although that seems like it could make a fun strategy game I know it has nothing to do with elemental.
End of KellenDunk's quote

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying :)  I'm almost a quarter into A Game of Thrones as we speak.

I thought you may have been implying that George Martin should NOT be associated with Elemental (i.e. that once I read his books I would come to that conclusion myself).

Reply #10 Top

The latest Dev Journal makes me think that one of their inspirations was the Sword of Truth series (Kingdoms of Midlands -> Kingdoms, Imperial Order -> Empires).

Reply #11 Top

Yea ... the last post did make the Empires sound a lot like Jagang's Empire of Men (lol)

I like it, its a cool spin on things (The large qualitative differences between Empire and Kingdom)

Reply #12 Top

Quoting _PawelS_, reply 10
The latest Dev Journal makes me think that one of their inspirations was the Sword of Truth series (Kingdoms of Midlands -> Kingdoms, Imperial Order -> Empires).
End of _PawelS_'s quote

 

I didn't consider it that way at all.  The empires sound far more like capitalist authoritarians than socialist ones.  Also the Order preaches that all are equal, the Empires say the opposite. 

Reply #13 Top

I'm not sure that Emperor Jagangs Sorcerors would agree with you ...

The Empire seems to instill a lack of compassion for the weak, as well as a right to rule by birth (how good you are) ... this doesn't mean a noble lineage, per se, but outright genetic discrimination based upon empirical evidence of utility.

Emperor Jagang: the dreamwalker, recieves much of his powers by birth, as do the sorcerors and other various magic users that work for him.

Meanwhile, everyone else is equal. Yes, that is the whole reason why I cannot see the Empire as being free-trade or social mobility (Capitalist, political/social Darwinism) because the Empire is outright genetic Darwinism. There are those born for greatness, and the rest are obligated to be dutiful servants without any aspirations or social mobility.

I suppose the main difference between Jagang's Imperial Order and the "Empires" is that after Jagang has taken over the world, he wishes to rid the world of all magic (ubermensch), thus becoming the only Exceptional person in existence.

Whereas the empires would continue to uplift those born exceptionally gifted. This is to say that there is no Social Mobility in the empire. At all. Even those exceptionally born are limited to only the role they are naturally good at. There is no room for aspiration to do other things, or climb the ladder of ranks. Ranks are determined as soon as you are born. Under a capitalist society of any kind, there is always some form of social mobility. Even in a fascist society (corporations ruling with the iron fist of the military) there is some social mobility, especially if the particular fascist society has no racial prejudices (very possible within the definition of Fascism).

A good example (Of Empires) would be the movie GATTACA

The Empires, however, would be most closely associated with Either Stalinism or some Stark retelling of Chinese Imperialism. (meaning all the Chinese politics and none of the Culture). In both cases, the only people elevated above the level of Peon are the Bureaucratic Administrators. These people would be selected by Nation-wide standardized testing, and being selected for their naturally high intelligence, the logic would dictate that they would be the best to control the central authority of the government.

A highly simplified version, I am sure, but nevertheless a useful Foil.

Meanwhile, the "Kingdoms" seem, to me, most like the city states of Ancient Greece ... with elements of republics, excess of extreme democracy, and other elements of complete authoritarianism. In these societies, decadence (Culture) is allowed and often encouraged, while politics are often placed within the hands of the people. Social mobility is often acceptable, through proving your worth to your fellow men to be elected as a Senator or Administrator. In this society, the key emphasis is on self expression ... and by extension you get to pick your own rulers. The only difference with the Kingdoms, of course, is that the Sovereign actually has all of the power and could take away any civil freedoms he or so chooses at any time.

In this way, the Kingdoms are even MORE like the midlands ... because they have a system of Absolute Rule (Lord Rahl, Mother Confessor) while at the same time the people are encouraged to pursue self expression (many tolerated minorities, magics allowed in all forms, social mobility).

Sparta would actually be closer to an Empire due to their Stark and Spartan nature, with selecting the role of a child soon after birth, sacrificing of those physically handicapped, etc.

Thus, as you can see, the Imperial Order does hold many similarities with the Empires and the Midlands hold many similarities with the Kingdoms.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 13
I'm not sure that Emperor Jagangs Sorcerors would agree with you ...

The Empire seems to instill a lack of compassion for the weak, as well as a right to rule by birth (how good you are) ... this doesn't mean a noble lineage, per se, but outright genetic discrimination based upon empirical evidence of utility.

Emperor Jagang: the dreamwalker, recieves much of his powers by birth, as do the sorcerors and other various magic users that work for him.

End of Tasunke's quote

This was the hypocrisy in the Order's preaching.  They couldn't really hide the fact that some were better than others, Richard goes on many-page long rants about this in his head a billion times. Either way, embracing that some are inherently better than others is no the way of the Imperial Order.  Jagang's crew is nothing like this crew.  If anyone had any thoughts about being deserving of something or better than someone else, they would be jailed and beaten.  Most likely abused sexually to show that they are no better than anyone else regardless of how they were born.  They broke even the gifted in this manner.


Meanwhile, everyone else is equal. Yes, that is the whole reason why I cannot see the Empire as being free-trade or social mobility (Capitalist, political/social Darwinism) because the Empire is outright genetic Darwinism. There are those born for greatness, and the rest are obligated to be dutiful servants without any aspirations or social mobility.
End of quote

Capitalist systems promote social mobility?  What statistics have you been looking at?  The USA probably the most openly Capitalist country in the world has really poor mobility.


Whereas the empires would continue to uplift those born exceptionally gifted. This is to say that there is no Social Mobility in the empire. At all. Even those exceptionally born are limited to only the role they are naturally good at. There is no room for aspiration to do other things, or climb the ladder of ranks. Ranks are determined as soon as you are born. Under a capitalist society of any kind, there is always some form of social mobility. Even in a fascist society (corporations ruling with the iron fist of the military) there is some social mobility, especially if the particular fascist society has no racial prejudices (very possible within the definition of Fascism).


A good example (Of Empires) would be the movie GATTACA

End of quote

GATTACA should be required viewing in all tenth grade Literature classes!


Meanwhile, the "Kingdoms" seem, to me, most like the city states of Ancient Greece ... with elements of republics, excess of extreme democracy, and other elements of complete authoritarianism. In these societies, decadence (Culture) is allowed and often encouraged, while politics are often placed within the hands of the people. Social mobility is often acceptable, through proving your worth to your fellow men to be elected as a Senator or Administrator. In this society, the key emphasis is on self expression ... and by extension you get to pick your own rulers. The only difference with the Kingdoms, of course, is that the Sovereign actually has all of the power and could take away any civil freedoms he or so chooses at any time.

In this way, the Kingdoms are even MORE like the midlands ... because they have a system of Absolute Rule (Lord Rahl, Mother Confessor) while at the same time the people are encouraged to pursue self expression (many tolerated minorities, magics allowed in all forms, social mobility).
End of quote

I agree here, A bunch of Allied Nations left to rule their own lands how they see fit, unless they piss off the Mother Confessor.  After Richard takes over, it's less like the kingdoms, though.  He forces them to give up their local sovereignty.

Although now that I think about it, There really is nobody that represents the Confessor or D'haran Emperor on the kingdoms side.


Sparta would actually be closer to an Empire due to their Stark and Spartan nature, with selecting the role of a child soon after birth, sacrificing of those physically handicapped, etc.

Thus, as you can see, the Imperial Order does hold many similarities with the Empires and the Midlands hold many similarities with the Kingdoms.
End of quote

I don't think the Imperial order IS much like the Empires, but I enjoyed your write-up.

If we want to compare this description of the empires to anyone in the Sword of Truth I would think it would be Dhara under the rule Pannis and Darken Rahl.  In Their Dhara strength is prized above all other traits.  Little Girls are abducted at a young age based on predetermined criteria as to who were born to be the best candidates and then they are FORMED through magic and torture to be Mord-Sith.

Reply #15 Top

Yea, I would have to agree with you that Darken Rahl's Dhara probably holds the most similarity with the Empires. The only real difference here is the fact that soldiers were encouraged to become better, gain rank, gain battle experience, etc. With the Dragon Core and the Quads being reserved for those that proved themselves through battle, not birth (IIRC).

I think the one interesting parallel among Imperial Order and the Elemental Empires, however, is that both contain the vast majority of the world's population while their potential opponent is rather outnumbered. (at least within the canon lore, it would seem)

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 15


I think the one interesting parallel among Imperial Order and the Elemental Empires, however, is that both contain the vast majority of the world's population while their potential opponent is rather outnumbered. (at least within the canon lore, it would seem)
End of Tasunke's quote

Agreed.  Although the scale of the Old World compared to the new was much more pronounced.  I wish I could remember the example used by one of the wizard fellas.  Zedd or Nathan used it I think.

Reply #17 Top

Looks like I started an interesting discussion...

Of course there are differences, the Empires ideology is not an exact copy of Jagang's ideology.

But there is one important similarity: they both despise liberty and individualism.