Defense: Armor and Evasion?

Well, if we do have a "Dodge" stat, or what not, I would prefer if Armor didn't give a static -2, but instead percentage demerits to "Dodge" ... although honestly I don't see how Dodge would be implemented without separating Attack into two different stats as well.

For instance, wearing Cloth or Leather armor would not effect your Dodge stat, while Wearing Light Chainmail decreased it 10%. Wearing Heavy Chainmail (or Scalemail?) would decrease your Dodge by 20%, and by Wearing Basic Plate-armor your Dodge is decreased by 40%, but expertly made Plate-armor could give you 30% Dodge (or even 25% if really good material). Meanwhile Plate-Mail would usually be 25-30% Dodge reduction.

Expertly Crafted Armor can generally decrease the penalty somewhat, but only in Plate Armor is the difference seen so vastly. In this way, some plate armor can be more expensive yet give better Dodge scores, while Other Plate armor can be better at armor, and give even WORSE dodge scores.

In any case, the real pain of this system would be when we would have to split Attack into Hit and Damage.

I don't really see how splitting attack into hit and damage is a real pain, that's so simple that it's the basis of most RPG systems period.

Granted, Elemental is a TBS...but it's also an RPG influenced TBS with equipment and quests and loot and levels. I don't think making it a little more sophisticated, so that people can make more varied units and characters is that radical.

Attack is ability to land a blow.

Strength/weapon type is the amount of damage the blow deals when landed.

Evasion is the ability to avoid a blow.

Defense (or armor) is the amount of damage absorbed when a blow is landed.

Dom3 does this VERY WELL.  But you have to be open to some different kinds of die-rolls.  Their open ended D6 system seems to work really well though.

I would heartily endorse armour and defence ratings (or armor and defense if you want). Having no advantage in lighter armours and quicker reflexes would really oversimplify the combat in my eyes.

If such a system WERE implemented, I would want to steer clear from armor giving any "evasion bonuses" and instead having light armor give less penalties. Having no armor should definitely have the highest evasion score. Especially if you are a monk.

So, say your basic Heavy Plate armor allows for 60% max evasion score, and your basic studded leather armor allows for 90% max evasion score. Meanwhile your Master-Crafted Starmetal plate allows for 80% max evasion and your master-work leather armor allows for 100% evasion. Most Champions would have 100% evasion if NO armor ... however if you achieved the Monk Feat or the Quickened reflexes feat (or something like it) then you would have 120% evasion with no armor, or +5% evasion with any type of armor. (meaning a monk in heavy plate would have 65% evasion as opposed to 60)

/// this essentially means that "monk" gives +5% evasion with armor or +20% evasion without

If we were to split Attack into Attk/ Damage and split Defense into Def/ Evade .... then I think Attk and Evade should be dealt with dexterity stat, while Damage is dealt with strength and Def is dealt with consitution.

Meaning that people with higher consitution would be able to absorb more damage, and people with more strength would be able to land more damage. This constitution is, of course, separate from the excess Hitpoints you gain on level-up so its not a complete double acting system (more HP, greater Damage Absorption) except for at level 1 .. or if you spent level up points on CON instead of HP.

So, you would have the option of adding another point of CON (+1 HP, +0.5 damage absorption) or another 10 points of raw HP.

In addition you could either add another point of Dex (+0.5 hit, +0.5 evade) or another point of Strength (+1 damage). Perhaps there is both a Hit roll and a damage roll, resulting in [0, hit stat] and [0, damage stat] values.

I like the 4 stat approach. Attack vs. Defense and then Damage vs. Armor. All the possible combinations add depth to combat that wouldn't exist in a system where armor and defense are combined in one stat. And visually there should be a difference between missing and getting blocked by armor. Defense (evasion) and Armor work better with spells that only need to hit you. If there will be spells that can be dodged that is.

I sure hope Deves really think this over for I agree with Hound. If Elemental wishes to capture the Massive RPing community, these four stats in the core Engine is a must. Maybe there can be a choice to combine or switch them for those that do not Role play, but for role playing purposes I just can't imagine a Monk with no evasion and dexterity bonus to avoid damage. Please no monks with armor, and Fighters using Full Plate armor with access to Evasion feats and dexterity speed bonuses it ruins the RPing aspect of the character development (well at least for me).

I think another good aspect of a system like this is that it would clearly illustrate the difference between training and equipment when it comes to troops.

Ideally, Attack and Evasion/Defense (whatever you want to call it) should be trainable; something linked to stats.

Meanwhile, Damage and Armor should both be based mainly on equipment, I.E. Weapon Damage and Armor Rating. (With Stats like Strength and Constitution factoring in, of course.)

In this case, if you want troops who have higher Attack and Evasion/Defense, you need to spend more time than money training them...but you could also equip them and go the route of more money/resources and less time, to 'mass produce' legions of peasant troops who have equipment: sort of like the difference between crossbowmen, and longbow-men.

It also allows you to tweak what you want your troops to do and be good at much better; how do they react to an incoming volley of arrows: run for cover, or stand and raise their shields? (Ideally Shields should be a form of Armor, stack-able with other armors.)

Furthermore, when it comes to Sovereigns and Heroes, it gives you more room for customization and ability differentiation; whether you want to be able to dodge and weave, avoiding spells or area attacks, or absorbing them...I imagine resource/money poor sovereigns are more likely to go the Evasion/Attack route rather than the equipment heavy route.

Lastly, a very good contrast you have heavily armored shock-troops versus light, quick 'assassin' type troops. One type is slower, can absorb attacks, is mostly immune to low-damage attacks, area or otherwise, and costs more up-front. The other type is faster, avoids attacks, and has to be worried about things like large area attacks or rapid-fire low-damage attacks, and takes time to gain exp and become more useful, rather than costing more up-front.

I will chime in with the suggestion everyone check out Dominions 3 (the free demo is quite fun once you get past the UI), simply to check out how the units and items interact in combat.

The idea of being able to customize units in Dom 3 is tantalizing, due to the beautiful interlacing between unit stats, weapon stats like Attack, Defense, Damage, Length (One of Dom 3's coolest mechanics is the weapon length mechanic, which interfaces with enemy Morale)...

Lets not call it "dodge" or "evasion".  Maybe "defense skill" or "chance-to-block".  Anyway, armor gives one kind of defense and experience/skill/training  gives the other. Anyway, I vote for the 4-stat system, functionally like Master-of-Magic all those years ago.

Well, Evasion (or Evade) just sounded better than Dodge...Defense might be best but I didn't want it confused with the 'current' Defense stat.

It could represent Dodges, Parries, Weaves, and other things that aren't armor.

Attack/Damage and Defense/Armor .... Attack and Defense are skill based, while Damage and Armor are equipment based.