[Suggestion] Hazard Range

from Elemental Forums

In Civilization 4, you can pretty much build a city wherever you'd like and you are limited only by the geology of the terrain.  There may be a few barbarians here or there, but even raging barbarians are a pushover.

In Elemental, I would like to see Hostile NPC's and dungeons be a as influential on where you place your cities as geology.  What I mean by this is that many hostiles would have a range of hostility, and the closer your are to them, the greater likelihood they will attack you and in greater force.  So on the strategic map, you would toggle a little "hazard" button that would color the landscape to represent the "hazard rating" each square is subject to.  When you destroy dungeons or or other hostile entities that are contributing to that hazard rating, the color goes down in intensity.  Also, until you explore the surrounding area, you aren't aware of what the "true" hazard of a square is.

So basically, when you are planning on where to plop a city, not only do you have to consider the resources of a location, but you must consider whether it is safe.  You would basically have two modes of spatial expansion: you could either conquer other kingdoms or you could clear out hazards and build new cities.  In this schema, hazards would be highly formidable, sometimes even neutral, non-sovereign opponents (an underground city of undead, tribes of trolls, etc.) 

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Solid Idea.  Here are some thoughts on it:

  • I think it makes more sense to show hazards even if you haven't scouted the area - or would we like the hidden dangers of the map to reach out and 'thwack' the unsuspecting?  This could go either way, but definitely something to think about.
  • Hazard rating could have a malus rating for population growth for cities (check the hazard rating on the central tile?). This reflects people's unwillingness to move into more dangerous areas, even with the support of the nation.  It takes a special kind of person to be willing to dive out into the great unknown.
  • It's possible that such a setup is "farmable" for sovereign and army experience.  Is this something we should be worried about?
  • Would/Should hazard ratings effect the pathing of roads and caravans?

Your hazard map has gotten me thinking about a UI change... *scurries off to go write that up.*

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I definitely like the idea of hostile factors possibly hurting your city based on location. If you build a fledging city near the hideout of powerful bandits, they should actually capture your city and loot it, unless you manage to defend it. Likewise with dungeons and other adverse conditions. I'm not sure how apparent these should be made to the player, though. Perhaps some scouting should be required?

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sareln, reply 1
Solid Idea.  Here are some thoughts on it:


I think it makes more sense to show hazards even if you haven't scouted the area - or would we like the hidden dangers of the map to reach out and 'thwack' the unsuspecting?  This could go either way, but definitely something to think about.

Hazard rating could have a malus rating for population growth for cities (check the hazard rating on the central tile?). This reflects people's unwillingness to move into more dangerous areas, even with the support of the nation.  It takes a special kind of person to be willing to dive out into the great unknown.
It's possible that such a setup is "farmable" for sovereign and army experience.  Is this something we should be worried about?
Would/Should hazard ratings effect the pathing of roads and caravans?
Your hazard map has gotten me thinking about a UI change... *scurries off to go write that up.*
End of Sareln's quote

Well, ideally you would not want to show the hazard influence until you've scouted, otherwise hazard zones will be a sort of back door way TO scout (after all, if you see a nasty hazard radius then you know that there is a big dungeon nearby.)  And besides, not showing hazard radius until you've scouted the source buffs the meaningfulness of actually scouting.

As for farming hazards, the best way to handle this is to make each hazard act in its own best interest.  For instance, a band of Goblins would look at the mighty archer-studded fortress and say, "You know what, maybe we should pick a softer target."  Baddies would generally only attack when they had a fighting chance, and they wouldn't generally raid a city to destroy it.  They would probably attack and begin to "steal" from the city as the melee continues, then retreat once they've gotten their fill.  Fail too often in defending a city and it eventually is burned or disbanded.  Want to eliminate the raids?  Then you have to go destroy the source.  

On the other hand, if a cave of trolls or a village of goblins see your city's army vastly outgrow their forces, they might eventually just pack up and travel elsewhere.  In one of my earlier posts, these kinds of hazards were actually rudimentary AI's that had their own little mini nations, but could never grow as mighty as a late game sovereign kingdom.  So a lot of those hazards might even be quarelling with one another.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

This is one of the best anti-city-spam ideas I've read yet around here--it's nicely 'organic.'

I agree that it seems odd to have hazard info available regardless of FoW. I also very much like the idea of hazard level affecting caravan movement (or automatic roads, if they stay that way).

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, and one of the added benefits beyond remedying city spam is that it also changes the "shape" of an individual's kingdom.  Because imposing, nasty hazards will encourage sovereigns to seek "softer" land, they may be encourage to, say, take to the seas to colonize a distant, large, peaceful island rather than the fertile land next door that happens to be under the gaze of some formidable and jelous monster.

When you look at maps of medieval kingdoms, they are never big blobs that ooze into ever niche in the landscape.  No, they are piecemeal, existing and expanding based upon a balance of ease and benefit. 

In Elemental, I'd like to see something similar: a mountain kingdom that zig-zags through mountain valleys.  Two hefty ends of an empire, separated by the vast territory of an easily awaken dragon, connected only by a flimsy road.  An island kingdom that pushes against the coast of a forgotten continent, held at a sprinkling of seashore cities by a fearsome collection of Lizardman tribes. 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

In Elemental, I'd like to see something similar: a mountain kingdom that zig-zags through mountain valleys. Two hefty ends of an empire, separated by the vast territory of an easily awaken dragon, connected only by a flimsy road. An island kingdom that pushes against the coast of a forgotten continent, held at a sprinkling of seashore cities by a fearsome collection of Lizardman tribes.
End of quote

Why not an Underground Dwarven Kingdom, with carved mountains being the cities?

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cikomyr, reply 6

In Elemental, I'd like to see something similar: a mountain kingdom that zig-zags through mountain valleys. Two hefty ends of an empire, separated by the vast territory of an easily awaken dragon, connected only by a flimsy road. An island kingdom that pushes against the coast of a forgotten continent, held at a sprinkling of seashore cities by a fearsome collection of Lizardman tribes.


Why not an Underground Dwarven Kingdom, with carved mountains being the cities?
End of Cikomyr's quote

Whatever makes each kingdom flavorful :-)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Whatever makes each kingdom flavorful
End of quote

An intact forest to niche your few elven towns..