Customizing vs Lore

from Elemental Forums

Having fiddled with beta .0291 over the weekend I came to a few early conclusions. While I love customization I don't think it should kill the 'Lore' of the game.

When starting up the game I could chose my sovereign, pick my clothes, pick traits, chose my faction and chose my race. For me this just didn't feel right. When I chose my sovereign he should belong to a certain faction. A Capitar sovereign, in my eyes, shouldn't be able to rule over the Tarth faction. After that I could chose a race. The 'Lore' section isn't complete yet, but I would love to know what difference picking a certain race brings?

All in all there's so many things to pick before starting the game, for me it's just really confusing. Chosing a leader makes sense but I would like to see it that certain leaders are linked to certain factions. Picking traits is fun too, but combined with picking a race there are too many variables coming in to my taste. Picking clothing? I really don't care about it since it doesn't change the game in any way, but if people really like it, I'm fine with it.

In short I like customizing, but:

  1. It should do justice to the lore or story of the game.
  2. It shouldn't overcomplicate matters. I want to know clearly what the effect is of a certain pick. Too many picks make this too cloudy imho.

 

12,692 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I think most of the lore will be there in the defaults, small adjustments to that are fine... large ones should eventually just be custom civs. Although with lore/backstory I would love it if each trait linked with a line of text that was added or removed to the backstory. So... with the default options they have the backstory, change a trait and it changes any backstory related to that trait.

E.g.
General lore - Faction specific
"after the war of the titans..."
Race specific text - Tarth
"The Tarth..."


Personal bit - Sov specific
"Lord Frogboy, unlike many frogs is able to cast magic..."
backstory - Job specific text
"...a troubled early life, stealing from the rich... and the poor"
Trait text
"ugly in human terms perhaps..."
More text

Final kingdom/fallen text
"Now he/she strives to..."

If you adjusted the old job it would adjust a linked description that appears in the background. All it would mean is having the descriptions moved to the background. Have it editable still, but it'd be a nice starting point for making custom factions that didn't feel empty. (Galciv 2, I had stupid squirrel empires angry and after your nuts, and the odd insect empire and things... but it wasn't really the same as having a race with a background that fitted the universe.)

It's mostly cosmetic... and the background text hasn't been implimented yet, but I would like for the changes you make not to seem random and be reflected in the background. Start with a warrior and turn them frail and people should see that if they read your background without knowing all your traits.

Now what would take more time but would be fun, if other players can read your background mid game and they get used to each race having certain traits... for any of the key traits you reverse they'd have a 'trait lost, opposite gained' text in their background:

Selanna, the most beautiful of the *insert race*, able to enchant mere mortals with her smile. Not for evil, for she is known and respected throughout the land for her kindness. Determined to revive the land and restore what was lost.
(beauty + kindness, kingdom)

Selannna, known once for her (beauty) and (kindness) now (kills for fun) and has (lost the smile that enticed) and gained in it's place (a sneering look of contempt that is hard to ignore). These changes seem to be the work of something evil, something happened to change the woman we once knew. Although she used to be (determined to revive the land), now we can't really be sure of her intentions.
(wicked + arrogant + ugly)

 

 

Also, a small point but at the moment the equipment choices have no effect but I'm sure it's possible that they could represent actual equipment later. (scouts cloak, platemail shirt vs tunics and breaches... maybe equal cost items or with an associated cost for the early game bonus)

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

When suggesting some kind of Sovereign Creation process, I suggested to be able to lock Sovereigns to certain factions. The process involved two steps (Blood Inheritance and Life Inheritance) with an optional third (Social Inheritance) that would lock the Sovereign to a certain faction if used. Having Sovereigns independent of factions can be nice to use your favourite Sovereign with the faction of the day. But locking him to a single faction is (or should be?) a must Lorewise and from a Sovereign Creation process could be linked to faction talents and weaknesses for the Sovereign.

About too many options... Well, until you know them all. The more, if well done, the merrier. More chances to try different things, more replayability... Colours of the faction? The have some by default so no problem. Same for race (which is another cosmetic thing so "worried by the lack of their race in the game" people can have their own race included in the game.  As well as totally weird races created by users.

Curtains - Customize Windows with additional styles
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 2
When suggesting some kind of Sovereign Creation process, I suggested to be able to lock Sovereigns to certain factions. The process involved two steps (Blood Inheritance and Life Inheritance) with an optional third (Social Inheritance) that would lock the Sovereign to a certain faction if used. Having Sovereigns independent of factions can be nice to use your favourite Sovereign with the faction of the day. But locking him to a single faction is (or should be?) a must Lorewise and from a Sovereign Creation process could be linked to faction talents and weaknesses for the Sovereign.
End of Wintersong's quote

Sounds like a very good suggestion. Still leaves some room for customization while doing justice to Lore. It gives the game the much needed soul. If you really want to make things crazy you can always decide to create a custom sovereign and faction.

Quoting Wintersong, reply 2
About too many options... Well, until you know them all. The more, if well done, the merrier. More chances to try different things, more replayability... Colours of the faction? The have some by default so no problem. Same for race (which is another cosmetic thing so "worried by the lack of their race in the game" people can have their own race included in the game.  As well as totally weird races created by users.
End of Wintersong's quote

I'm not the 'the more, the merrier' type of guy. Too much customizing is killing for 'gamesoul'. Of course the beef of the game is in sandbox mode which implies you can tinker away if you like. But great games keep the tinkering accessible. This also lowers the threshold for new gamers.

 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

 

My favorite form of customization in games is dynamic customization. That is, instead of just choosing what your character/faction is directly, your actions help determine what your character becomes. This, IMHO, is far more engaging than simply direct customization. It makes you feel like you are part of an evolving story, instead of just designing a piece for a game.

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Are there rumors of ingame traits like Empire: Total Fail?

 

(If not: I heard there will be ingame traits from quests and moral decisions)

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Hey, whats wrong with Empire: Total War! its not like I bought it ... or play it ... but Medieval II was pretty cool :p

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

As long as there are default settings, a lot of variables shouldn't be a problem - you don't need to touch them. On the other hand, for the people who want to choose and change everything this is crucial for a game to live long and prosper ...

Personally I would prefer as much customization as possible, also down to clothes, hair style and tattoo/scars on your pink/blue/grey/black skin. \o/

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Empire failed to beta AT ALL.

Back to the discussion at hand, Yes defaults are great for following lore but even though there is a book coming out for this game lore limits my imagine-nation. If I want to be a giant spider king, I should be able to. I'l be a fallen race kept secret and I'll even write my own bio.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

My 2 cents...

Seems to me that it'd make sense to have some sort of restrictions on player customization, limited by race, faction, etc. It does occur to me that you should be able to continue customizing your appearance in game-- you are crazy magic, after all :).

But for convinence sake, it could be something you can turn off from options, for people who'd prefer to rule over their pathetic human subjects as their giant spider overlord.

Each to their own :grin:

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

I dunno. I tend to think sand box mode should be just that.  

In the campaign we can stick to lore.  But in sand box, I'd like to make it so that people can play however they want.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree that there should be a choice for 'custom everything'. And when that's your first choice a player can do whatever he likes. But If I don't want to customize my race I'd rather make a selection for eg a Capitar sovereign. If I chose a Capitar sovereign I shouldn't be able to turn him into a leader of the Tarth faction. It's like having Bismarck ruling the Zulu's in Civ. Just doesn't feel right.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10
I dunno. I tend to think sand box mode should be just that.  

In the campaign we can stick to lore.  But in sand box, I'd like to make it so that people can play however they want.
End of Frogboy's quote
You surely want to elaborate more about that. Could be considered a hint of "In sandbox there is an option in which you get to play dinasties and forget about the 'Sovereign Death = Game Over' issue." which has been denied over and over for a long time now.

Just saying because that topic is quite important for some people here and the less confusion/speculation the better.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 12



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 10
I dunno. I tend to think sand box mode should be just that.  

In the campaign we can stick to lore.  But in sand box, I'd like to make it so that people can play however they want.
You surely want to elaborate more about that. Could be considered a hint of "In sandbox there is an option in which you get to play dinasties and forget about the 'Sovereign Death = Game Over' issue." which has been denied over and over for a long time now.


Just saying because that topic is quite important for some people here and the less confusion/speculation the better.
End of Wintersong's quote

 

It is Lord Frogboy's divine wisdom to hint and riddle. We may however make conjecture at his teaching and twist his implications.

I think in sandbox mode there should, and will be according to the green one, options to have custom or foreign leaders using whatever minions/citizens they desire. My homeland was ruled by a dutch king for decades during a rulerless time in england. How is elemental any different?