Why would Fallen use Death Magic?

from Elemental Forums

So.. one of the main features of the game is how the lands of the human kingdoms and the Fallen empires will be different due to humans using life magic and fallen using death magic, right? 

As far as I can tell, Life Magic restored-land gives you an eden with incredibly fertile land, pleasant weather, tons of plant and animal life, and a generally easier place to live in. On the other hand, Death Magic gives you a barely-survivable wasteland, where food no doubt does not grow nearly as easily, merely surviving is harder due to the harsh terrain and climate, animal life is less abundant and more hostile, and the whole deal is generally bad.

Why would anyone, ever use Death Magic? It might give you some slight military advantage, but no doubt Life Magic has tons of offensive spells as well, that hit just as hard without ruining your OWN land in the proccess.  It's like nuking the entire planet, including your own nation, to wipe out a few enemies.. sure, they'll die, but you'll have nowhere to live.  The only reason I could think of is perhaps Fallen either can't use life magic, due to their.. created status, don't know HOW to use life magic, or won't due to some self-destructive ideology.

 

Has there been any explanations on this? or is it 'just because'. :p

elemental
19,731 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Because they only have access to death magic?  It seems to have something to do with being stuck in the east.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I personally think it's #1: that their unnatural status blocks them off from life magic. That, and the fact that just because it looks uninhabitable to us doesn't mean that they don't find it pleasant...

WindowBlinds - Free yourself of the default settings, customize your desktop.
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Because they like killing things? Perhaps they are like Necromongers.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

The EMPIRE uses death magic.

A Fallen race could be on the side of the Kingdom.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 4
The EMPIRE uses death magic.

A Fallen race could be on the side of the Kingdom.
End of Frogboy's quote

Really? So I can have a Non-Fallen Race play as a Empire faction or a Fallen race as you mention be part of the Kingdom factions? That will be awesome.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Ah! that makes things seem like they make a lot more sense - one would assume not all of the Titan's creations feel the need to follow in their creators footsteps so to speak.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

right, the Krax are humans on the empire side!  its reasonable to assume there is somebody on the flip of that coin.   (though I guess its easy to say after Frogboy's already confirmed it)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting landisaurus, reply 7
right, the Krax are humans on the empire side!  its reasonable to assume there is somebody on the flip of that coin.   (though I guess its easy to say after Frogboy's already confirmed it)
End of landisaurus's quote

He said, "A Fallen race could be on the side of the Kingdom." That confirms the possibility for custom factions, but not for the canon factions. Brad's cagey like that.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

The EMPIRE uses death magic.

A Fallen race could be on the side of the Kingdom.
End of quote

It good to hear that there is the potential of mixing things up a bit.  I was worried about that.

But what about the original posters question?  What is the benefit of death magic?  Will the game actually make farming and production worse for kingdoms on "death" lands?  If so will death magic be that much more powerful than life magic?  They are interesting questions and now I'm curious.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting edpfister, reply 9

But what about the original posters question?  What is the benefit of death magic?  Will the game actually make farming and production worse for kingdoms on "death" lands?  If so will death magic be that much more powerful than life magic?  They are interesting questions and now I'm curious.
End of edpfister's quote

Just wild mass guessing here, but wouldn't "death" magic good at leaching energy from living things? So "death" magic farming could be about getting as much as you can from your arable land, ultimatly depleting them, before moving on. At some point you may ran out of fresh lands, but then you can just fertilize your grounds using corpses or something sinister like it.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Death Magic isn't about killing things. Death Magic is about using the energy released when death occurs.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 11
Death Magic isn't about killing things. Death Magic is about using the energy released when death occurs.
End of Frogboy's quote

 

Sooo....

 

It's not about killing things, but in order to use it you have to kill things.

 

Ok then.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting shadowtongue, reply 12
Quoting Frogboy, reply 11Death Magic isn't about killing things. Death Magic is about using the energy released when death occurs.

 

Sooo....

 

It's not about killing things, but in order to use it you have to kill things.

 

Ok then.
End of shadowtongue's quote

does a solar powered calculator produce sunlight?

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

does a solar powered calculator produce sunlight?
End of quote
Good one. Any ecology would likely have more than enough death to keep a sorcorer happy for quite some time... I always envisioned the death terrein as not so much barren as just wierd and a wee bit distrubing... the rivers appear to be some form of blood as opposed to lava, the ground is likely covered in a type of non-green plant life, et cetera.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 13

Quoting shadowtongue, reply 12Quoting Frogboy, reply 11Death Magic isn't about killing things. Death Magic is about using the energy released when death occurs.

 

Sooo....

 

It's not about killing things, but in order to use it you have to kill things.

 

Ok then.

does a solar powered calculator produce sunlight?
End of KellenDunk's quote

 

Um...

 

I think your analogy is flawed.  But Death magic reqires death, just as a solar powered calculator requires light.  (sun or other, to be pedantic).

 

In anycase, one would assume that to perform really powerful death magic, one would need alot of death, I think the initial observation stands.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Hehehe ... instant mana recharge wether the Oppenent's army is being slaughtered ... or even if your OWN army is being slaughtered. Perfect Equation for the Evil Sorceror sending his people's to their deaths.

 

"Ha! you have defeated my army, now I shall DESTROY YOU!!!!! muahahahaha."

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Not really. Although i must admit, the calculator thing makes no sense at all. I was sort of thinking about it like this. Living things do their living thing, which generates power for life channelers. However, living things are also sotring up power and building themselves up as they live and grow. An oak tree might not produce a whole lot of power at once, but it will live for hundreds of years, so thats quite a bit of time to generate life power over. However, a death channeler only gets one shot of power, when the living things dies, but its a big shot of power. A 200 year old oak has had a long time to generate a build up power, so when it dies, its a massive amount.

If you think about it like that, life magic would be slow and steady, but death magic would get huge bursts at intervals. Over the long run they end up with the same amount of power. Circle of life, closed system, laws of thermo and all that. The only real difference in power would be the timing, and if you are looking at a large enough area, i am sure there is enough life and death going all over to balance it out.

Even in battle it would be balanced. Yes, there are lots of people dying, but at the same time, the ones who are still alive are struggling hard to live and thus would also be putting out more energy for life channelers.  The corpses would also nourish the plants around the battle field as well as any scavenger.

You can only have death if something had lived, and everything that lives has to eventually die. Its a perfect balance.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm ... I would say that a Massive slaughter would definitely be more advantageous to the Death Channeler than to a Life Channeler ... sure the life channeler might have the advantage at the start of the battle, but once peoplrre start dying, the Death Channeler gets more and more powerful, until he is more powerful than the Life Channeler. As you say its all about timing. Life Channlers have a greater peace-time advantage, and a greater advantage for protracted wars with low Casualties.

Pyhrric Battles with Massive Slaughters on both sides would be HIGHLY advantageous to a Death Channeler, as alot of killing is happening at once.

Maybe Life Channelers recharge mana slowly over time, while Death Channelers recharge mana much slower, however during seasons of massive death they recharge much faster, even as much as fully recharged in one turn after a massive slaughter.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

I hate to just toss something like this out, but in that case it seems appropriate. I am sure the devs can figure out a way to make it work. Bam, there, i did it. The way frogboy phrased it made me think that they have already figured all this out and have a system they think will work, and since SD is brilliant, imna trust em.

but ya, a horrible slaughter where most of the folks die would certainly help a death channeler more. However, assuming we get a retreat button, that kind of bloodbath should only happen when you are defending your capital.

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

I think the "Concept" Frogboy is getting at is that Necromancy can be used for a lot of things. If you follow D&D, certain types of Healing Spells are Classified under "Necromancy". This would mean that a Holy Cleric of good was using Necromancy. When most people think "Necromancy" or "Necromancer" they usually assume it's something or someone evil, which is simply not the actual case. It's a stereotype.

Following that same concept for Elemental, Death Magic is nothing more then a form of energy. That energy can be used to heal, or to kill, and the power of Death creates this energy. It is not inherently evil, it is a force of nature.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Except for the catch, that if you need a big boost of power for something, you kill something to get the boost. You can use the power for anything, but getting the power in the first place is where the evil comes in. After all, if you are being all good and kind and waiting for people to die naturally, while your opponent is out pulling a khorne thing and massacaring people while screaming praise to the blood god, the crazy guy is gonna end up with more power and stomp you silly.

Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top

Would this

 

Kingdom = Arcane (Based on the old world elemental, magicians, from where the channelers evolved from, if i understand the lore correctly)

Empire = Eldritch (Based on the strange warping ways of the Titans)

 

Be better ?

Edit: added explanation of words

Arcane
 
ar·cane
   /ɑrˈkeɪn/
–adjective
known or understood by very few; mysterious; secret; obscure;
esoteric: She knew a lot about Sanskrit grammar and other arcane matters.

Origin:
1540–50; (< MF) < L arcānus, equiv. to arc(ēre) to shut up, keep
(deriv. of arca a chest, box) + -ānus -an


Eldritch

el·dritch
   /ˈɛldrɪtʃ/

–adjective
eerie; weird; spooky.

Also, eldrich, elritch.

Origin:
1500–10; earlier elrich, equiv. to OE el- foreign, strange,
uncanny (see else) + rīce kingdom (see rich); hence “of a strange country,
pertaining to the Otherworld”; cf. OE ellende in a foreign land,
exiled (c. G Elend penury, distress), Runic Norse alja-markir foreigner

 

 

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

The death for empire, life for the other side(can't recall their name) is already decided by devs. Although you could probably mod it however you wanted.

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Cerevox, reply 23
The death for empire, life for the other side(can't recall their name) is already decided by devs. Although you could probably mod it however you wanted.
End of Cerevox's quote

Thought very little was set in stone, but ok

If it was up to me i would go with Preserve / Defile or Arcane / Eldritch, magic

Life / Death is simple and works, but not very precise and i get a feeling of Paladinish behavior from the Kingdom side,

makes my skin crawl :)

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Very little has been declared to be so. The empire = death, other = life is one of the few things that has been. The devs have said it enough times that changing it now would just confuse the crap out of everyone.