Traits/Abilities on units for more depth into the game and combat system.

Perhaps an addition to the depth of the complexity of units.

I was reading the "More attributes needed for Elemental" Post from NTJedi. Red1939 replied at some point with a post about adding abilities to the game, Personally i had been thinking about this before to, It didn't get any responses within the post so i decided i'd make a new post just to talk about that.

To Clarify what i am talking about with "abilities/traits" i will try to explain. Besides a unit's attributes it will sometimes also have an ability/trait, This will maybe be displayed in the info card by having text that says for example "Brace Yourselfs!" (The first attack made against this unit will only deal half damag) or "Leave no survivors" (When over 90% of the enemy unit stack is killed. This unit will deal double damage).

Now there are so many ways this could be implented, I will talk about a few that i came up with.

Basic

Let's start with the most Basic way throught the unit creation screen. It could just be another tab in the unit creation screen along with weapons/armor/equipment/(Traits). This splits to another several of options on how to obtain these, this could be through research or perhaps unlocking them by meeting certain physical prerequisted or even by statistics like winning 10 battles without survivors on the enemy's side will unlock the "leave no survivors" Trait. Perhaps not a brilliant example, but it will do to show you what i mean.Feel free to name any other ways you'd like to see of unlocking traits in the game in a post below. Ofcourse the amount of traits a unit can have and the cost of these can be balanced out later. Depending on how you want to apply the RNG factor can range from almost none to somewhat random. From where i see it this way won't make things to complicated for people that are new to the game or don't like complexity's but that's my humble opinion and it might be off.

City's with Character

This one crossed my mind when i read a post by cookie_1 called "The use of essence in building large cities". Units trained in City's that have a history will have a trait because they are from that city. For example the first city you ever build in this world will after a large period of time gain this ability and every unit build there will have the trait "since the begining of light" (When fighting inside your territory units get a 10% bonus to attack and defense). The family's of these people have lived her from the begining of your empire. In this case they have grown a strong gratitude towards you and will fight like no others to protect your empire. Just an example. So basicly what i am trying to say is that City's will sometimes unlock this abilty. The Trait soldiers gain when trained in a certain city with that ability can be made to relate to buildings/surroundings/timeline(build in a war in time of peace. First of your empire) of the city to give it some History. Ofcourse there will have to be limits and prerequisteds for city's to prevent city spamming. This can be done by limit it to a certain amount of city's or maybe find some other factors that you bind it to for example Sovereign level 1 city can get this trait for every so much Sovereign leves. Maybe you can even make an essence cost to this. Feel free to give ideas on this to. The thing about this method is that it does have a certain amount of RNG in it. Which for some people is a problem. Perhaps to limit the amount of RNG involved it can be kingdom specific. You research a kingdom specific research that allows you to build a unique building in one of your city's. This building will give the city the feature that every unit that is trained in it will get "a trait that that building provides for that city. I shouldn't go into thigns to deep as i will over complicate things for myself and others. I think you get the main idea. This idea would also be more complex then the previous and if i understood correctly Complexity is what we try to keep limited.

Achievements to unlock.

This will mainly be the basic way but a little more complex on the unlocking part of it so i thought it deserved it's on bold lettered title. In Demigod you could unlock achievements and score points with that that you could take from game to game and unlock items with those points that would be unlocked in every game you play. Now i don't know the details to this since i don't own the game but from what i understood of it, i thought it was a fun idea. It will give the player the option to develop his playing style not only personaly but also show it in unit statistics by lack of a better way to put this. On that note i am sorry for any typo's, grammar fails and misuse of words. English is my second languege and it sometimes prevents me from getting my point clearly across. So with this every account will get it's own achievement points counter and with those achievements points you can unlock Traits that you can give to your units the way i described in the Basic part above. Achievements points could be earned simply by playing a map. Winners get more then losers but depending on your statistics it will determine how many points you get. so that long games are a bit more rewarding. They could make a curve in unlocking points that prevents people from quickly unlocking all skills and negate the personal playstyle depth factor. Or maybe even limit the amount of unlocks you can have at a time and it will cost achievements points to switch them. Most likely this system will be ripe for exploit due to the moddabillity of this game(which don't get me wrong is a great thing). So it might not be the best way to go and i won't go into it to much.

If it won't kill you, it will make you stronger.

Combat..Experience. It the post "It is time to discuss....DEATH!!!! (or at least combat) from Frogboy. He mentioned that he would like to see experience being used as more then a modifier to the current stats. I figured why not mix it up in this idea post with traits. So i think it's pretty self-explainatory but just in case. When a unit gains enough experience from doing combat and surviving it it will level up. Now on level up it will get an increase in stats from what i get so far. Now along with the stat bonus maybe on for example level 3 it will gain a trait. This trait can be randomly selected or it could be picked by the player out of a pool of unlocked Traits. Maybe even selected by the game based on certain factors like units weapon/armor/misc/current area/City created in. So for example Billy the Soldier will get a trait when he reaches lvl 3 after a battle. It will be called "Now if you are running the full version like i am you can actually go overhere and unclick....ooh..i guess i can't.." (Drops the enemy morale severly). He got this trait because at the time of his creation he had to be in Frogboy's video thus that being the deciding factor of what trait he got. Hope that clears things up. Maybe high level soldiers can even unlock more then one trait but it will have to be balanced. As for RNG factor this can be decided depending on how to unlock the traits. Comlexity i'd say it would be decent.

 

Now i could keep going on with different idea's and all but i feel if i keep talking even the most patient and focused people get bored and wander off to a different post. So let's see what you guys think of this first. Feel free to post and positive comments or negative ones below. Idea's and additions are always welcome to. Try to keep it respectfull towards me and the fellow forums members.

Thank you for reading.

P.S. My reference to Frogboy's video wasn't meant disrepectfully, I have the utmost respect for everyone in the Elemental Team and i think they are doing a wonderfull job.

6,648 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

I would rather a unit to gain some sort of "trait" every level, and then a stat increase every 3 levels.

Reply #2 Top

I think the traits 's refering to are profile traits carried over from game to game.

So you might have multiple profiles (think diablo 2, you have a mage, an amizon, a barbarian) and when you play under a profile you can unlock abilities for that profile like  "When a unit you control kills thier 20th kill they get +10% attack when opposing stack is <10% remaining health."  No matter which channler or side you chose to play that unlocked trait is avalible if your playing on that profile.  You then can choose or preform certain tasks in any game, or certain maps, to unlock those traits, and can only have so many traits for a given profile.

By chooseing which maps to finish in which order, and which traits to unlock you can specialize your gameplay that little bit extra.

(also can add a  'serisouly addicted mode' where a profile can unlock and use all traits, and then people can have online comptitions to start a new profile and race against others to unlock everything in a three month long gamming marrithon of addiction. . . . but that's a side thought)

Is this closer to what you were trying to suggest?


 Robbie Price

Reply #3 Top

I hope he was preferring to units. All unlockable achievments should give exactly ZERO in-game mechanical bonuses ... thats just silly. Make someone be able to play the game more easily because they have played enough? pure skill should determine that. Now ... on a campaign, if its played from one map to the next (although I pray to Jebus that the entire campaign is on a single world-map)

So ... as to my point I HOPE he is talkin bout' leveling on a soldier-to-soldier basis. Of course, benefits of levelling should probably scale to how difficult it is to level up ... but here are some rough ideas.

For most basic soldiers (not a sovereign, hero, or family member)

minor stat gain -every two levels

minor trait -every level (cycling between 4 different traits which slowly stack)

major stat gain- every four levels (boost to the minor stat gain)

major trait- every 3 levels (could either be a boost to the minor trait, or a weapon-specific trait AKA wide sweep, or greater phalanx)

so lv 1 = minor trait, lv 2 = minor trait and minor stat, lv 3 = major trait, lv 4 = minor trait and major stat, and so on.

Then, for A Sovereign/hero/family member, all levels will give major stat gains, skill points (leadership, ect), and every few(3 or 4?) levels will gain a special ability or activatable mode for the battlefield (like crushing blow, bezerk, flurry of arrows, ect) ... selectable. Also, it seems to be fairly easy to equip your hero with whatever you have available (not considering magical artifacts) ... so abilities will be selectable from a list, based upon which weapon you wish to focus on (perhaps armor too, unless armor is kept super-simplified). Perhaps only 5 possible abilities and 5 possible Activatable modes. Maybe less. All gains for Sovereign will be more than that of heroes and royals, of course, and also Sovereign will be able to place skill points into places heroes couldn't even dream of. (Sovereigns are not only better at royals and heroes at what they do, but he can do so, so much more)

Reply #4 Top

Just to clarify. I wrote down several different idea's. One of them was unlocking achievements somewhat as Robbie Price mentioned. I am not the biggest fan of that because there are alot of downsides to i don't know how to work around. Another was indeed what Tasunke Mentioned. I like the idea of having minor and major traits. to balance things out a little more.

Reply #5 Top

I am as well strongly against unlockable skills or anything in particular that has an effect in the game. I don't see how it is beneficial to what can be an extremely competitive 4X game. Starcraft 2 is only going to dabble into some sort of RPG element for the sake of enhancing their single player mode but that doesn't mean so should Stardock in my personal opinion either. As an example, if I was a lot better than this longer playing player, I wouldn't like to see him be able to start or eventually be benefitted with anything in the game and I can't have it because he unlocked some thigs, frankly I think its dumb and doesn't add any meaningful substance to the game design, no offense.

 

I don't see an issue with allowing units to gain traits, but I always preferred Age Of Wonders mechanic of awarding regular units (non-hero's) with new or improved skills fixed and not choosable. I can easily see imbalance issues taking a while to be balanced and its better left with how AoW did it and follow in that line.

Reply #6 Top

Goodmorning all,

Regarding the unlocked abilities: 

I already posted a suggestion on how to incoperate this slightly under https://forums.elementalgame.com/367726 unit experiance idea

In short the suggesion was that when you train a unit in an ability it can only be used under ideal conditions,  (fields, defending, first rounds of battle, ~100% unit strenght...)  As the unit levels up as a unit they begin to be able to apply the skill/ability in more adverse situations.    It's intirely possible that such abilities could have a min level to do anything at all. {ideal conditions being not in battle yet}; a peice of equipment that you are equipped with, but only units level 2 and above can actually use.

Take care all