New research mechanic suggestion.

from Elemental Forums

A quick suggestion for the new research mechanic.

 As proposed you'll end up with a HUGE list of technologoies to choose from by say level 7.

even at level three we already have

  • Barracks (green)
  • Weapons (green)
  • Leather Armor (green)
  • Plate Armor (yellow)
  • City Walls (green)
  • Archery (green)
  • Fortify Position (red)

For options, if we only get one tech per break through by level 7 the list of possible techs to get will be unmanageable and will require a search option just to find the tech you want.  ouch. 

I would suggest that instead of just adding 10 RP each level and starting the counter from 0 each time, that the colour of the tech change the starting point, or the number of RP needed.

I would suggest that changing the starting point would be easiest.

So when shown the Options you see somehting like (luckly that all options for level 3 were granted by the RNG)

  • Barracks (green) (-15 points)
  • Weapons (green)(-15 points)
  • Leather Armor (green)(-15 points)
  • Plate Armor (yellow)(-35% of total)
  • City Walls (green)(-15%)[just became green]
  • Archery (green)(-15%)[just became green]
  • Fortify Position (red)(all RP)

So when you choose a very low tech you only have to make 25 more RP to get a new tech, but if you pick a RED one you have to start from 0.  various % stages inbetween baced on probability of being given that option.

Then you can add a 'take nothing' option which removes no RP at all, and in 10 more RP you get another roll of the RNG.
You would use this if you don't want any of the techs offered enough for the RP costs, or if you wanted to turn a RED into a YELLOW (hopeing to get it again now that it's yellow) and save 40-50% of your RP. (this option would NOT unlock new techs to become RED, IE  if you're working on Warfare 3, you still are working on Warfare 3, just a more expensive version of it)

Each tech would have a min points off stat, but in general once that min level is reached it would decend no further.

additionally you can add in a 'if tech has been at min for N techs remove it from the list perminently' to further keep the list from getting over populated, also if a tech is at it's min level it choosing it would also not advance the catagory counter. (perhaps choosing one min RP cost tech would cause a differnt min RP cost tech to be removed from the list if more then 1 tech is at Min status. to preserve the 'can't get all the techs' effect that stardock apparest to be aiming for [which i do support]).

 Just a thought

 Robbie Price

3,992 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm afraid I see some problems with your idea...


Then you can add a 'take nothing' option which removes no RP at all, and in 10 more RP you get another roll of the RNG.
You would use this if you don't want any of the techs offered enough for the RP costs, or if you wanted to turn a RED into a YELLOW (hopeing to get it again now that it's yellow) and save 40-50% of your RP. (this option would NOT unlock new techs to become RED, IE  if you're working on Warfare 3, you still are working on Warfare 3, just a more expensive version of it)
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If you choose nothing, why should there be a chance for a RED tech to turn into a YELLOW one? As I understood the new research idea Frogboy suggested, going from Warfare III to Warfare IV is what makes new techs show up, but also what makes RED / YELLOW techs to change to YELLOW / GREEN. Having a tech become easier to get just for 10 (or whatever) RP seems a bit strange to me.


additionally you can add in a 'if tech has been at min for N techs remove it from the list perminently' to further keep the list from getting over populated, also if a tech is at it's min level it choosing it would also not advance the catagory counter. (perhaps choosing one min RP cost tech would cause a differnt min RP cost tech to be removed from the list if more then 1 tech is at Min status. to preserve the 'can't get all the techs' effect that stardock apparest to be aiming for [which i do support]).
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I don't think removing techs from the list permanently is a good idea. If I get to choose between a green tech I want, but have been ignoring for a bit, and a interesting red tech that becomes suddenly available, I shouldn't been afraid to pick the red tech. I shouldn't be forced to choose the green techs I want just in case they won't be available anymore next research upgrade.

Also, I don't think Stardock is aiming for a limit on what techs you can get. Maybe I must something, but I never got the impression that was the plan. If it is, it shouldn't be the low level techs that dissapear, but it should be that high level parts of the tree become unaccessible because of some choice. For example, you have to choose between high level plate armor, or high level leather armor, but you can't get both.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't think it's the way you think it is, as it was already explained by Scorpiana.

What I've been thinking now about, is how will the game show up all techs available to you? If you for example skipped a few techs, and will be able to choose one from 20, will we just get a looong list, and then a loong list from which we can choose (after the breakthrough)?

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

goodmorning all,

It isn't the way i suggested,  currently you face a long and expanding list each time you move up a level.

If you choose nothing, why should there be a chance for a RED tech to turn into a YELLOW one? As I understood the new research idea Frogboy suggested, going from Warfare III to Warfare IV is what makes new techs show up, but also what makes RED / YELLOW techs to change to YELLOW / GREEN. Having a tech become easier to get just for 10 (or whatever) RP seems a bit strange to me.
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Ya, i'm not 100% happy with this, but the idea is that by putting an extra 10 or N reseach points you should get a higher chance of getting harder to get techs.  Either because the new list has all the the old list did, + another chance to pick up any red or yellow techs you didn't get offred the first time,   or because the probabilty of getting that red or yellow tech goes up a bit. 


Basically the idea is that  you look at the tech options (1 of 2 yellows, and not the red you really wanted), and thier costs, (15 RP, 15% RP, 100% RP, ). Currently you're stuck, you choose one of the greens or yellows you don't really want and start again from 0.  I'm suggesting an alternative where you tell your Research team to go give it another few days to think it over.  They then take the extra RP to give you better options, or lower costs (modelled as higher probabilities to get each tech, lower costs of chooing the techs). 

so instead of going  Warfar 1, Warfare 2, Warfare 3,...

you can choose to go
Warfar 1, Warfare 2, Warfare 3, Warfare 3.1, Warfare 3.2, Warfare 4,...

You delay finnaly finishing Warfare 3, so you progress slightly more slowly but get nicer choises.

I don't think removing techs from the list permanently is a good idea. If I get to choose between a green tech I want, but have been ignoring for a bit, and a interesting red tech that becomes suddenly available, I shouldn't been afraid to pick the red tech. I shouldn't be forced to choose the green techs I want just in case they won't be available anymore next research upgrade.

Also, I don't think Stardock is aiming for a limit on what techs you can get. Maybe I must something, but I never got the impression that was the plan. If it is, it shouldn't be the low level techs that dissapear, but it should be that high level parts of the tree become unaccessible because of some choice. For example, you have to choose between high level plate armor, or high level leather armor, but you can't get both.

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Your right, I don't think Stardock actually stated an intention to remove or make unavalible techs,  This was mostly, but not completely, an addition on my part, wrongfully contributed perhaps to stardock. The reason i made the contribuation was because  if you're on warfare 45,  and not gotten City Walls (for whatever reason),  You have the choice between techs that are JUST turned green at 460 RP value, or a tech that was green at 10RP value . . .  In the current system were you loose all 460 RP  weather you chose walls or 'technomagic sheild of physical repellation' [4th upgrade of the 'wall' concept, or something else, just an example] . . .  choosing city wall is poor RP economics . . . maybe the choice should still be there, but if i were looking for a way to clean up the displayed number of availible techs, those city walls would be amoung the first to go (If i've not got them in 44 techs, something REALLY odd's got to be happening that i want them now ,more then i want a tech that is actaully worth ~ 460 RP.)

One could argue moving them to another submenu 'really old stuff', or giving them for free. . . i chose just throwing them away to clear clutter... I'm not overfond of that solution but it seams the cleanest, clearly your researchers have no inclination to walls, or you'd have them.

Anyway that's me two cents, take care.