Spell Research Interface Idea

Mixing for Custom Spells

from Elemental Forums

Imagine a picture of a bubbling Cauldron. Around the main Cauldron are a bunch of smaller Cauldrons that correspond to the various elements. The player would use a pointer that looks like a hand holding a magic wand (think old school MoM pointer). You hold the pointer over a container that has a Element in it, like Fire, or Earth, or Air. You click and hold down the mouse button and suck up magical power from the small container. You get a percentage reading of how much "Magic" of the Element you pull out. You then hover the pointer/wand over the Big Cauldron in the center of the screen. When you click the mouse button again you "dump" the magic you're holding in the wand that you just took from a container into the Main Cauldron. The player is free to mix amounts of various Elements to try to make Custom Magic Spells.

Lets say the player mixes 50% from the Fire Element and 50% from the Air Element. They then advance turns while the ingredients boil simulating research time. When the spell is done researching a scroll can float to the surface of the Cauldron or the words for the spell can appear on the surface of the liquid in the Cauldron and the player is notified that their researched produced a new spell. The end result would be a Fire Tornado or whatever the Devs decide mixing that combination would produce.

No matter what mechanic you decide to use for the actual Magic Spell Research this type of interactive interface can provide fun for the player and give them the feeling they are actually "mixing" custom spells (could be used to make potions too). This also minimizes the feeling that the player would be micromanaging spell research because they would have a active part in it.

8,297 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I would love to use such a system. And it would be even better if you don't see the real percentage you used.

I mean : take a little cauldron, click and hold. As you hold some liquid is versed in the big cauldron. you just see the liquid flowing, when you release the button you won't see "34% water", but the color in the cauldron could be 34% blue ;) That just would be really awesome.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting vieuxchat, reply 1
I would love to use such a system. And it would be even better if you don't see the real percentage you used.

I mean : take a little cauldron, click and hold. As you hold some liquid is versed in the big cauldron. you just see the liquid flowing, when you release the button you won't see "34% water", but the color in the cauldron could be 34% blue That just would be really awesome.
End of vieuxchat's quote

I like that, but, that would make it hard to mix spells that you need a certain percentage to get the recipe correct for. Maybe just have the percentage as a small number down in the very corner in case you need to know the "exact" amount.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

No, the "randomness" would come from you : you needed 35% and get only 34 % then maybe there's 2 spells that are "near" that percentage one with 33% and one with 35%. Then you would get randomly one of the two !!!

And you wouldn't know before trying what percentage you need to get your "doom fire". Maybe some books - found while you venture outside - that says you need 'lots" of fire, "a touch" of earth and "some" wind.

 

You would really be researching for your spells, not just "asking" for it. It would be a "try and guess" system. Maybe each spell would have random percentage when you start a new game, so you can't be sure about the percentages of the spell. Or maybe only some caracteristics of the spell (because doom fire would always need "a lot" of fire ;))

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I don/t really think a 'cauldron' fits in particularly with the lore.  It would look cool, but would probably feel out of place

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting astrath, reply 4
I don/t really think a 'cauldron' fits in particularly with the lore.  It would look cool, but would probably feel out of place
End of astrath's quote

I have to disagree. I think Cauldrons fit the theme nicely. As I remember there were quite a few screens in MoM where a Cauldron could be seen. Cauldrons just go along with Magic and when I think of a Magical Laboratory I picture a Cauldron there somewhere along with beakers and burners and such.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea for some of the very rare spells to work like this, but not for any of the common/slightly rare or anything less than doom-fire dragon guarded scrolls type magic

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Dr, reply 6
I like the idea for some of the very rare spells to work like this, but not for any of the common/slightly rare or anything less than doom-fire dragon guarded scrolls type magic
End of Dr's quote

I was thinking this interface would be for "Custom Spells" and maybe for mixing Potions. There should be some "normal or universal" spells that everyone has access to like Fireball, and Lightning Bolt, etc etc. Mixing un-known amounts would be something you do when you want to try something completely new or that uses multiple spheres of magic.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm not sure whether or not I like this idea... It is different, that's for sure. The thing is, I like to have some rough notion what is going to happen. With no indication of what will come out (if anything), it's just random... If there is an indication then what's the point? It just becomes a time-sink when you know the outcome already. If it changes every game, then it would get old trying to figure out all the combinations.

I think...

I have to disagree. I think Cauldrons fit the theme nicely. As I remember there were quite a few screens in MoM where a Cauldron could be seen. Cauldrons just go along with Magic and when I think of a Magical Laboratory I picture a Cauldron there somewhere along with beakers and burners and such.
End of quote

When I see cauldrons I think witches and witchcraft. With the source of magic being the shards, that doesn't really seem appropriate to me... My vote is definitely against cauldrons! :P

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting pigeonpigeon, reply 8
When I see cauldrons I think witches and witchcraft. With the source of magic being the shards, that doesn't really seem appropriate to me... My vote is definitely against cauldrons!
End of pigeonpigeon's quote

I suppose you could use a giant crystal with smaller crystals around it. Still, I think any kind of interactive interface would be funner then just clicking a picture on a graph. There could be an indicator of some sort as you mention or you could be following a recipe one of your adventurers find while on a quest. There's lots of things you can do with it honestly.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

well, after seeing the Bioshock 2 trailer, I definitely think we should be able to combine spellls to make new spells ... like say "Fire Tornado" ... or Razor Leaves of Ice! .... or Lava Tsunami ... or Lightning Storm over Exploding Volcanoe (you get it?)

 :D

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I suppose you could use a giant crystal with smaller crystals around it. Still, I think any kind of interactive interface would be funner then just clicking a picture on a graph. There could be an indicator of some sort as you mention or you could be following a recipe one of your adventurers find while on a quest. There's lots of things you can do with it honestly.
End of quote

It's not as much the user interface I'm opposed to as the mechanic itself. It's either too vague and random, or it takes something that should be simple and quick and turns it into a mini-game that would be fun the first few games, but quickly start to get old.

Now... if Stardock does allow us to dynamically create or combine spells of our own... That would be awesome (I cannot emphasize how awesome that would be). And having an interface like this, provided it acts as an intuitive medium for such design, would be much more palatable to me. 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Now... if Stardock does allow us to dynamically create or combine spells of our own... That would be awesome (I cannot emphasize how awesome that would be). And having an interface like this, provided it acts as an intuitive medium for such design, would be much more palatable to me.
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There is a spell eidtor, but that's really just an aesthetic thing tha modders could use to make pretty light shows.

Regarding the cauldron, it does seem to be a little overcomplicated...... and the dev team seems pretty set on doing a card-based system......

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

yea, card based system. Im sure they have an idea of how they are going to make spell progression work, and personally I have no particular stance on it at this moment.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting pigeonpigeon, reply 11

It's not as much the user interface I'm opposed to as the mechanic itself. It's either too vague and random, or it takes something that should be simple and quick and turns it into a mini-game that would be fun the first few games, but quickly start to get old.

Now... if Stardock does allow us to dynamically create or combine spells of our own... That would be awesome (I cannot emphasize how awesome that would be). And having an interface like this, provided it acts as an intuitive medium for such design, would be much more palatable to me. 
End of pigeonpigeon's quote

I could swear I read somewhere that we'll be able to make custom spells. When I read that I assumed they meant by mixing and matching spell effects.

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 12

There is a spell editor, but that's really just an aesthetic thing that modders could use to make pretty light shows.


Regarding the cauldron, it does seem to be a little overcomplicated...... and the dev team seems pretty set on doing a card-based system......
End of Scoutdog's quote

I thought the card based system was just for "Info". I was also under the impression the spell editor was for making custom spells in game, not just for modding how they look. It shouldn't be too different from the mechanic we'll use to make magical items. I'm assuming here too that we'll be able to custom make these on the fly in game, not just be able to Mod them into a game. I think we need more info on the matter.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

im pretty sure the focus on magic will be a pretty late focus compared to the other features ... as we need all the core-mechanics in-place first to even think about spell creation.

At least in my mind. Magic is absolutely the most external feature, as it effects pre-existing features in a certain way, as magic is bending the will of nature/ect ... but in order to bend the will of the natural order, we need to be certain on how the natural order will work imho

:)

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm assuming here too that we'll be able to custom make these on the fly in game, not just be able to Mod them into a game. I think we need more info on the matter.
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My impression was that the item editor was also more modding-based than in-game, but we shall see. Not too sure either way.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

I was under the impression that the spell editor was intended for modding purposes only. I would love to be wrong, or if I'm right I would love them to change their minds (at least in an expansion or something!) because dynamic spell-creation within the game itself (ie, as part of gameplay) would be awesome.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

A 'theme' for the interface of research would be awesome. Be it a couldron or playing lego with coloured crystals. As long as it's not time consuming and purely estetic it's pure win IMO.

An option to research random spells would add divercity and nuiquness to every replay. Also, I don't see any reason why we should choose only one of the systems. A player should be able to decide to focus on 'classic' research or to go wild with his intuition every time he finished researching a spell.

 

 

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

I too like the idea of a cauldron.   But they already have this "magic card" system, which I have no idea how works.   I feel like they are going to work in a similar way to your cauldron anyway, except with cards... not a cauldron.