le tme make items for my heroes in the game!

I'm thinking of items like you could make in game in MoM. The cost/benefit equation to it was pretty simple: items took a lot of magical power and time to make. Additionaly while you were making an item, you couldn't cast any other strategic level spells. So a powerful item for your hero was a heavy investment of time and money. For something added for elemental, think of especially powerful items requiring essence. Think Sauron and the one ring, pouring part of himself into the item. Based on the books of magic you had you were limited not just your spells you could research but also what modifications you could make to magic items. For example, having nature magic was great since you could give an item regeneration, something a death caster couldn't do. Making magic items in the game allowed you to make heroes even more of an extension of your will by allowing you to outfit them to be better at certain tasks.

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Reply #1 Top

There are some good and extensive discussions of item crafting in earlier threads which you might find interesting.

Reply #2 Top

or regeneration could be under life magic :p ... and nature magic could have things like Tree-skin, or water-breathing, or poison drenched (and poison immune as well). possibly an "earth burrowing" feature, where you can either move through the dirt like a sandworm, or wait hidden in the earth until the enemy arrive like a hydralisk. ... you could have both as two different types of burrowing, although movable burrowing "sand worm variety" would probably be the cooler of the two, even if it has a chance of being spotted, you can move + your protected from damage. Hydralisk (static burrowing) you would be completely invisible, undetectable, immune from all non-earth based damage in your area (or possible immune to all damage) but you cannot move or attack as long as you are burrowed.

Reply #3 Top

One thing that should be addressed in this topic also is who makes the magic items and under which circumstances!

In my humble opinion, the making of simple magic items should be governed by your resources, general magic availability and its social penetration. Magic-dependent societies could forge magic items without much effort - and based on inherent characteristics of some enchantments, you could somewhat order a few hundred Swords of Lesser Doom to equip your heroes if resources and labour are around. Now, who should forge these items? It seems reasonable to empower a small shop with magical upgrades or perhaps a specialized magic item manufacture. The first is more interesting in the way it can save space but it can hog your production of normal items. Nonetheless, this seems pretty straightforward.

The complexity arise when you deal with powerful items such as The One Ring or similar. The question of who builds them is now more relevant, yet in theory is not hard to deal with it. Should players/rulers be allowed to create their own imbalanced items at terrible cost? Sure, why not. Just make the cost really terrible. Should these items appear by event or build randomly if you are a magic-rich country? Damn sure. Should be some special techs in which you invest time, money and human blood into the construction of some more oriented item of magical power? Reasonable. Should tech allow you to create even more powerful or new items by all the previous methods? Sure. These methods are all possibilities and offer a great deal of variation on how to selectively build magic items.

Reply #4 Top

Age of Wonders:Shadow Magic  also allowed players to forge their own items!

Reply #5 Top

Creating items for heros was a huge part of what made MOM & AoW:SM fun, although MOM's implementation was better.  Heroes and their equipment are as important to fantasy games as magic & spell.  And they are a big new thing from the point of view of devs who might be starting from GalCiv2.

Reply #6 Top

I kinda think heroes should have relative Attk/Def values similar to their contemporary units (if slightly better and so-on) obviously changeable by specialty/ legendary equipment, ect.

Just a basic guide-line for heroes, I would like at least, is to have massive health, and massive morale, (while basic Att/Def), with the ability to gain the best perks/skills on levels or at military academies, and perhaps with the possibility to lead an army if they have enough leadership/prestige (and if they have enough loyalty where its cost-effective to place them at the head of your army)

Reply #7 Top

I think heros should basically have the same stats every unit has, altered by the equipment, but they should have "unique skills" and effects on the unit stack they belong to (plus, for some of them, the ability to channel magic). Heroes types could have specific types of items. For instance, a mage couldn't wield an axe, and a warrior couldn't wear robes, making items craft mor heroe specific :D

I too think items craft was lots of fun in both MoM and AoW:SM. Being able to loot such a crafted item on an ennemy heroe's corpse is fun too :p

Reply #8 Top

Just thinking... I'd love to craft "cursed" onto an item. An invisible attribute that allows you to choose another say 4 slots that only apply to the item if it transfers ownership. They'd be invisible and have an activation. or passive feature. Imagine looting the one ring, equip it and get 'cursed' and 'passive wraith transformation'. And now you have to decide, it gives +++atack, ++health, ++def etc but you have to gamble with it... you already know that after 'n' turns it'll turn units into wraiths, so can't be equiped forever safely. You could find out the other features of it through a few battles. Say you find out 1 of the cursed attributes after 1, 2, 4 then 8 battles. Really you'd have a choice: keep it for later, destroy the item (and not gain any mana from it), use lots of magic to identify it... then use magic to cleanse it, or use real battle experience or time to identify it for free (it may be a very mild curse) but risk one of the attributes being activated (by healing the unit for example). Imagine a 'healing disabled' and 'poison' curse kick in only when you try to heal your One ring wearing and otherwise amazingly powerful Gandalf mid war.

What about some of these cursed items being given as gifts. Give an ally a ring that passively drains mana from that empire to you. They would obviously destroy the item unless it was powerful enough to be worth it... or pass it on, or lose it, or cleanse it. Perhaps they could use it against you or perhaps it's beyond their ability to forge. Maybe you expect them to cleanse it and plan for that (use is to occupy them magically) or know they can't because the curse is too strong. I hate 'can't unequip' curses... or 'drains health' I'd much rather have them make you really think. Maybe a race could choose as a perk to gain a default curse, it would make those really nasty cursed items that much harder to spot against a sea of -1 attack curses.

Edit: I know this isn't really about heroes as such and it's more revisiting items. But still, knowing that some of the artifact and equipment attributes could be quite strange and interesting is important to making it fun. I'd like to be able to find and make sets as well. Say you can enhance an attribute up to x, if you add anything more than that it'll only be activated when another element in the set is present. So a pair, ring and helmet of [stone]... would have +x defence alone, and +y when together. or even have an extra ability +y per additional item with "set of [stone]" attribute. Maybe have stronger item attributes require another 1,2,3... items to activate. Something to make item sets and artifacts different. Maybe if artifacts could have the powerful spells in and all those spells could only be reached by having a set of 5 otherwise. So you could have the one ring as an artifact and a set of invisibility requiring 5 [air]/[darkness]/[evil] items... not sure how to work it, what sets groups there would be and which spells would fit in each set.

Reply #9 Top

One thing I don't want is the MoM style crafting... 

 

Making special weapons, hell yes.  Making special weapons with your channeler specifically, maybe.  Only making special weapons with your channeler?  It always annoyed me that there wasn't some other method of producing weapons, you pretty much had to go artificer if you went the way of the hero recruiting whore.

Reply #10 Top

Making special weapons, hell yes. Making special weapons with your channeler specifically, maybe. Only making special weapons with your channeler? It always annoyed me that there wasn't some other method of producing weapons, you pretty much had to go artificer if you went the way of the hero recruiting whore.
End of quote

That's only true if you were a score-whore first. I almost never picked Artificer and I always loved forging fabulous items.

It also seems like a red herring gripe when it comes to Elemental, at least by how I've read the loose dev talk so far. They seem near-definitely intent on making some magic items equippable for regular units, and I've missed it if any of them openly called forging Major Artifacts (champion-level items) out of the question.

Reply #11 Top

I never finished games, so score-whoring is out of the question.  I just disliked having my leader completely inactive for such long periods of time.  The game is already decided by the time you can finish them inside the time it takes to wipe out entire civilizations.