Emerging AI opponents and "Super-enemies"

or those feared most in the lands

from Elemental Forums

One of the things that really caught my eye when I was reading the dev journals was when one of the guys was talking about an npc necromancer that raised an undead army from the battered and destroyed cities of previous players' battles. That kind of AI, one that slowly shows up (rather than starting as an established enemy at the beginning of the game), and is at odds with all the other players in the game, could be a really awesome idea and gameplay feature.

The only other game I have really played with this feature (that I've noticed anyway) would be like Sword of the Stars, where when researching AI Technology (basically gives you insane boosts to research and production) you could accidentally start an AI rebellion that consumes half the galaxy, and all the set players in the galaxy have to deal with the threat (rather than each other).

So in example yeah necromancer shows up, makes huge army, all of a sudden multiple nations have to stop their wars with each other to deal with this new (and much more pervasive) threat to their empire.

The other idea I had was the idea of Super-Enemies. Once again, a concept from Sword of the Stars, where a when a galaxy was generated, it would generate basically a super boss enemy that could theoretically beat the other players unless taken care of. One of them was a massive planet called the Von Neuman that spawn ships that would destroy planets permanently (if I remember right).

In example of that then would be something along the lines of the Tarrasque from Dungeons and Dragons, a nigh unkillable rampaging beast that showed up every so often and devoured towns. Or perhaps the most ancient of dragons, one with a long name suggesting a deep history, list of famous heroes he's killed, etc.

Throwin that out there :P

10,620 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Sounds good.  If the devs don't do it the modders probably will.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the sound of "Super Enemies". :thumbsup:

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

One of the things that really caught my eye when I was reading the dev journals was when one of the guys was talking about an npc necromancer that raised an undead army from the battered and destroyed cities of previous players' battles. That kind of AI, one that slowly shows up (rather than starting as an established enemy at the beginning of the game), and is at odds with all the other players in the game, could be a really awesome idea and gameplay feature.

The only other game I have really played with this feature (that I've noticed anyway) would be like Sword of the Stars, where when researching AI Technology (basically gives you insane boosts to research and production) you could accidentally start an AI rebellion that consumes half the galaxy, and all the set players in the galaxy have to deal with the threat (rather than each other).

So in example yeah necromancer shows up, makes huge army, all of a sudden multiple nations have to stop their wars with each other to deal with this new (and much more pervasive) threat to their empire.

The other idea I had was the idea of Super-Enemies. Once again, a concept from Sword of the Stars, where a when a galaxy was generated, it would generate basically a super boss enemy that could theoretically beat the other players unless taken care of. One of them was a massive planet called the Von Neuman that spawn ships that would destroy planets permanently (if I remember right).

In example of that then would be something along the lines of the Tarrasque from Dungeons and Dragons, a nigh unkillable rampaging beast that showed up every so often and devoured towns. Or perhaps the most ancient of dragons, one with a long name suggesting a deep history, list of famous heroes he's killed, etc.

Throwin that out there
End of quote

Interesting idea with the super enemies.  A sleeping Leviathan that awakes every 50 years for 6 months to wreck havoc would be an interesting twist--- perhaps if he shows up early on in the campaign, the best that players could do might be to "deflect" it toward a different civ, rather than destroy it outright.

In our D&D campaigns, there is always a small chance, every year of in-game time, that a catastrophic event occurs.  It's happened only twice in our 7 (real) years of playing, once when they were high level (when they were strong enough to fight it with the help of a few armies) and once when they were low level (when they just did their best to stay out of the way.)  Either way, it made for an interesting spin on the setting. 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

aye, i would love something like this.

 

Always loved super-enemies appearing later in 4x games.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

This reminds me of Masters of Orion where there would be random events periodically. Some of those events were rampaging 'monsters' in the form of space worms, strange space crystal creatures or the Antarian fleet. I'm sure WoM should be able to do rampaging dragons or other mythical beasts or maybe barbarian hordes etc.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Reminds me of the great wyrm ... That just would be awesome. Or a nature rebellion if too much desacrated ground is here, or the surge of an ancient demon if there's too much holy ground.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Another example would be like someone uncovering an artifact that unleashes an army of golems that slowly build their own city, but for some dark and secret purpose.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

The Black Fortress from Krull.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Or in fall from heaven 2, the demon race that arise mid-game (thanks to the armageddon counter)

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Dude this is a good idea. Can shake up the game! 

Maybe another option too, 2 great races appear and everyone is forced to join a side or be destroyed. Then after one races is the winner. Some races are merged into the super race and everyone one else is left with some choices, join up with the super race, team up and destroy the super race... Just a random event that could make the game more interesting...

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I really enjoyed fighting against the planet itself in Alpha Centauri. I'd love to see that kind of AI at work sometimes in E:WOM.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree that both emerging AI opponents and super-enemies would add some variety to a game.

 

Super-Enemies

From the way you describe them, super-enemies should be seen as problems lurking the map. I'd like to point out that if super-enemies are not tough/destructive enough or grant a great reward upon their death, they may be seen as opportunities to feed heroes with experience, or players with powerful artifacts.

I can't wait for the raging Leviathan to spawn so I can level up my hero and gain the ultra rare artifact of supreme ownage.

vs.

Aww shucks. If I wait a few turns to gather my army to confront the Leviathan, it would raze 2 of my towns.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I am pretty sure Frogboy has already something in store for us.

 

I remember the first time I activated the "Draginol" event in GalCiv (strangely, or sadly, I played GalCiv much longer than GalCiv II): I thought WHAT THE HECK!!

And there were also those events about Empire X divided in two by civil war or some planets federating to fight evil empires. Gonna be some nasty surprises down the road. :dur:

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Speaking about dragons, wasn't there some talk about recruiting monsters, and rarely, a dragon, to fight alongside you?

Any-thoughts on how to gain such creatures?

 

Also, I think that certain super-enemies could allow for a team-up (at least temporary) if the right alignment/religious pre-requirements were met ... then you could at least TALK to the darn thing, and it would give you a quest to complete, and if you complete the quest it would team up with you.

Preferably talking with the beast would prevent it from attacking you for at least 10 rounds or so, or deflect it towards the next closest civ.

This deflection could theoretically slingshot an evil beast through an evil coalition, until it finally attacks a goodly civ. Alignment could be affected by both race and religion, and possibly by the abilities and actions of the Sovereign.

Something akin to Civics, combined with something akin to broader alignment, combined with religions, combined with starting weights for wether you are human or fallen.

 

Im sure there are various cultural variations separating the different sects of humanity, and different sects of fallen, each with different alignment pre-weights.