The Milligan kid is definitely getting the shaft here. Its ashame that when a kid is targeted over his race he has to fall on one side of the fence or the other. If the country is going to enforce hate crimes then they need to enforce them no matter the race of the victim. Its pretty messed up that because Im white if i get my ass handed to me by a group of black people (yes i said it black. Last I checked African American was for immigrants of Africa, not their decsendants) inwhich i was targeted over my girlfriend, the cops would just consider it a assualt. But if the tables were turned and I attacked a black kid cause of his relationship with a white girl id get slammed with charges for a hate crime.

The older guy probably is a closet racist. He hates black people just doesnt admit to it. But probably had a bad day, the woman said something to him, having every right to call him out on his behavior. And lost it, and all that pent up hate just spewed out. The guy is definitely gonna find himself behind bars for a long time.

The problem with cases like this is that very few people recognize (or are willing to admit) that racism goes in every direction. It is not a "white person only" disease. There is the KKK and the Black Panthers. Which one have you heard of as being the epitomy of evil?

If i beat up a white person, it's an assault. If i beat up a black/arabic/jewish/any other than anglo saxon white person for the same reasons, it is a hate crime. If a member of a minority attacks me then it is back to being an assault.

Let's look at it, it's ok to have a "Gay Pride" parade. But if you have a "Straight Pride" parade, the media will crucify you as a homophobe.

It is ok to talk about the assisted advancement of minorities, hispanic and blakc education, etc. But if someone set up an organization dedicated to helping white people, they are a racist.

There is definently a double standard, which is oddly enough, an artifact of racism. Basically, white people are expected to adhere to higher standards of morality and behave better in public, while minorities are pitied and their actions are forgiven more often.

Well, I don't really consider some marches and legal battles a 'struggle'.  While I can see how living as an open homosexual would have had, and still has, many drawbacks in society (And I know people have been killed over it) I can't see the change from "omg never tell anyone" to "IM ON TV EVERYWHERE! w00t!" as a struggle.  I mean, technically the term applies, but compared to women, blacks, etc it's not on par.

I guess -

The question regarding the two articles aside - I agree that the standard of 'hate crime' is far too subjective, and I don't like the concept . . .

I'm like anyone else, I remember being irritated at a black woman in a college class that implied that, as a white male, I had just never had hardship. At the time I was putting myself through college while living well below the poverty line, was living off of a combination of school loans, GI Bill, and minimum wage.

Despite that, the blunt fact is that although it's foolish and self-centered to believe that as a white male I had no problems, it is *also* self-centered to be unaware that there are problems I never had to deal with. A wealthy black woman may not have my own issues, but she is blessed with an entire set of her own that I will never have to deal with, and a poor black woman gets the joy of getting to deal with both sets!

When you take all that into account - do I have a problem with minority getting a parade and special help to deal with *specific* problems that, as a white male, I'm not going to ever have to deal with?

Frankly no.

I'm all for the recognition that everyone has problems. Some people have done nothing to merit getting all the same problems everyone else has to deal with, plus an entire set of others that have been foisted off on them by societal bullshit. I don't need a 'parade' to remind people of my history as a caucasian, the only issue I really have to deal with because I am a caucasian is the sometimes others don't remember that it doesn't imply some immunity to having problems.

Neither of these is true of someone that is a minority. When we get to the point where that is the case, then I'll consider reappraising my opinion on that.

Jonnan

aside from all these racist and oppression issues, that scenario reminds me of the movie Gran Torino. with all of those gangs and stuff, these things will always happen.

Not all heterosexuals are anti-gay.  And not all heterosexuals are in organized religion.  I think you're making sweeping generalizations that are totally unfounded.  I'm heterosexual, and I don't attend any organized religion gatherings.  I have no problem with homosexuals and hope that they have all the same rights and privilages as I do.  To say that all heterosexuals are an interest group that is trying to keep homosexuals "down" is completely wrong.

Also, if a straight pride parade was done, the media coverage would inherently make it look like an anti-gay parade.  Mostly for ratings of course "Anti-Gay parades?!  Tune in at 6 for more!"  Even if stated otherwise.  It's the extremists on both sides of this and all subjects that make trouble for the people who can actually see rationally and know the difference between offensive actions and actions that have nothing to do with them.  Straight pride would have nothing to do (if it is in fact straight pride) with anti-gay just as gay pride is not anti-straight.  Sadly there are people that try to sneak hate into a pro-something else movement.

Experienced shit like that first hand. It's particularly galling to see someone get off lightly when you've seen others get hit worse for doing less.

A book I once read said it best, "Give us foreigners the right, in your mind, to be bastards."

Heh - when are the occasions I'm supposed to start clapping just because everyone else is?

Sorry, but some of these complaints seem to me to reminiscent of the large guy complaining that he doesn't get sympathy when somebody half his size hits him first, but gee, the one time *he* swings first . . .

Well - Yeah.

I'm 6'2". No matter what happens, if the other party is smaller than me, I'm not honorably allowed to swing first, and often I'm expected not to swing second. By the same token, although I have my share of problems, minorities get all the shit I put up with, plus whatevers behind door #3.

Is it *fair* that I don't get to swing first even if the other smaller guy is a jackass? No. But it *is* the least unfair way of dealing with a situation in which I have an inherent advantage - all other things being equal, I never get to swing first.

This BS about a double standard is the exact same. No, it's not fair that if I happen to be competing for the same job with a minority there is some incentive to hire him or her rather than me - and I will be delighted to live in a world in which it's entirely unfair because they have had exactly the same options I did, but we're not (yet) in that world and until we are in a reasonably close facsimile thereof, that incentive is the least unfair way to handle it.

Sorry. It may not be 'fair' that the person that at first glance appears to have an inherent advantage over another person is supposed to take the hit. But the world in which that is not expected is a lousy place to live.

Jonnan

As one of the comments on that article points out, the attackers haven't been charged with a hate crime because they haven't even been captured yet.

It says very clearly in the article that they are investigating the motive. They can't determine a hate crime if they don't have all the facts, and without the attackers they don't.

Then there's the fact that the victim doesn't even remember the attack.

People would go up in a shitstorm and find some way to criticize police conduct.

I am not arguing about how the community reacts, but how people call double standard on the police for not jumping the gun and declaring a hate crime when all they have is speculation, coincidence(very strong coincidence I will admit) and a victim that doesn't even remember anything.

In all honesty I have almost no idea of what you're talking about at this point.

Kit, I have a situation like that.  A guy I know and his girlfriend at the time were having a fight (she was craaaaaaaazy by the way) and she came at him with a knife.  Big knife.  Swinging it all over the place.  Well he grabs her wrists to stop her from cutting him (when in fact he already had been cut MULTIPLE times and has pictures to prove it).  She doesn't have a scratch on her but HE gets arrested.