Trade Routes

from Elemental Forums

Hey all,

I've been lurking for a while and this is my first post, and if I'm repeating something previously said, please forgive me.  But I was thinking about the trade dynamics between cities and between kingdoms and something that I think would be interesting that would help differentiate Elemental from games like Civilization is if trade routes between cities developed organically.  Instead of sending a worker or an engineer or something out, if you built another city or developed a trade agreement with another player, you could see a trade route or road develop over time between the cities and you could tell the value of that route by the level of road development or the number of caravans you could see on it. 

Aside from the cool visual effect (at least, in my opinion), I think this could also present a lot of strategic opportunities too.  For instance, if multiple trade routes intersected at a point and you put a city on that intersection, that city would get a big trade bonus and perhaps a tech bonus too.  Also, if you were in enemy territory and you saw a trade route, you could raid it for money and hurt the trade of your enemy.  The concept I'm drawing from is bascially the various Italian city-states of the 17th and 18th century that were major trade, technology, and culture hubs between Europe, the Middle East, and Asia.

So, hello to everyone here and let me know what you think.

9,646 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I think organic trade would be nice in the respect that one couldn't control where trade went, so your city could be trading with an enemy city and it would be a huge boom, as you said, to have acity that intersected (or was close) with many trade routes.  You could add hemispherial or quadrantial (I can't spell) good so that each square (Say the map sectonied into 4) would want some 'luxury' resource that was only found in another square, and of course they'd want all of them if possible (IE the luxury from every 'square'.  ..I probably confused 95% of people, sorry.  Tired.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

That would be fantastic, but I'm not sure if it is going to make it in, as they appear to have decided to go for the simplest economic model of all the ones they were considering.  I sincerely hope that a trade system of the type you envision makes it though (after all, most of the power politics of fantasy realms ala Forgotten Realms ect revolve around trade and the revenues of such providing a basis for adventure).

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Maybe let trade posts pop up themselves on top of intersections, so a busy road might have taverns alongisde it or roads will deviate from the shortest route to pass through an oasis in the desert. If the intersections are in your territory you can tax it but if its in neutral territory an independent trade city might appear there with its own army. An easy way to starve this city would be to embargo it and block the roads leading to your enemies territory and the city would disappear on its own due to lack of trade. This would be especially cool if they were in the desert with no agriculture and so survived only as a trade post.

 

I also hope we'll have ports and ships as well, water mages can send elementals at enemy trade ships or even a Kraken to terroize waters, air mages can send storms etc.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Kinda sounds like the Civ4 trade system. each city has a number of trade routes (determined by tech + bonusus from civic buildings and wonders), the income from the traderoute is determined by the two cities's sizes and distance (+% bonusus from wonders, civics and buildings), these trade-routes were set up automatically. But with a visual (or in-game "phisical") aspect.

I like it.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I would also like to see trade routes develop organically.   paths would naturally form by themselves even if you did not build a road for them.  

 

That being said, Rome built roads for other purposes, and I know in Master of Magic roads are pretty much entirely for troop movement.   So I would say, caravans (assuming they are still in the game) should still try to reach places without without a road to them.  However they are at a serious disadvantage in relation to having a road, or perhaps they don't get that global bonus if thats in.  (There was talk about how everybody would get access to a resource, and caravans would give a bonus.  Perhaps its only cities with trade routes get global access, otherwise they MUST rely on caravans.)  It would make road building a very central part of the game.   Of course, Beta should be out soon, so we'll see whats up.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Demiurge4, reply 3
Maybe let trade posts pop up themselves on top of intersections, so a busy road might have taverns alongisde it or roads will deviate from the shortest route to pass through an oasis in the desert. If the intersections are in your territory you can tax it but if its in neutral territory an independent trade city might appear there with its own army. An easy way to starve this city would be to embargo it and block the roads leading to your enemies territory and the city would disappear on its own due to lack of trade. This would be especially cool if they were in the desert with no agriculture and so survived only as a trade post.

 

I also hope we'll have ports and ships as well, water mages can send elementals at enemy trade ships or even a Kraken to terroize waters, air mages can send storms etc.
End of Demiurge4's quote

 

Cool idea.

EDIT - The trade idea spawning neutral cities that is.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Goodmorning all,


These neutral cities, would span on fertil land, or litterally live off trade profits, shipping in all thier food?

Just curious.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

if you built another city or developed a trade agreement with another player, you could see a trade route or road develop over time between the cities and you could tell the value of that route by the level of road development or the number of caravans you could see on it. 

Aside from the cool visual effect (at least, in my opinion),
End of quote

Well one problem would be the visual appearance of a road and/or trade route would alert enemies of the existence of these towns and provide an easy path where to find these towns.  Ideally it should be possible to have two or more hidden cities which can be used as secret bases for striking deep in enemy territory...  a map maker such as myself would even be interested in creating such maps.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Logically roads should be VERY important for getting resources not found around those hidden citites though.

 

Also I think the organic trade route could def be in with the way roads are built. 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Yep nice idea of automatically setting up trade following roads.

Having to move around trade caravans to set up trade routes was an annoying pain that Civ already removed in the later incarnations.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I would be all for trading with opponents or allies, like you might do in other games where you barter something you don't want for something they don't want. But instead of instantly getting the resource actually seeing a caravan with the cargo go to the other city. If attacked you could loose those resources.

That would make a barting and trading system part of the game but throw a spin on it, unlike other games like Sins of a Solar wheretrading happen instantly.

I am still not sold on random units coming and leaving my city to trade with other cities though. That just feels too heavy and cumbersome. I mean your cities are producing gold every round, but I don't neccessarily want to know how. I don't want to see farmers farming, or blacksmiths mining ore. I like the simplification of "your city makes you money". So I am not being mean hearted or calling names, but frankly speaking wouldn't see trading as previously outlined as a benefit to the game.

Just my two cents.