NPC 'PC's: game play effects (PC in 'the order of the stick' - hero party)

from Elemental Forums

Goodmorning all,

Frogboy on several occations has hinted at or stated that, what they are trying to produce is the environement in which our RPG's take place. But instead of being the guys on the ground, the PC's fighting in a 5 person group against the world. We're going to be the kings,  Frogboy has also hinted that the 'PC's'{not channlers, just called PC's, they would be us, if we were roleplaying in the universe as them} will still exsist, hero's or groups of non controled units that wonder from town to town, visit caves, whatever. who for ammusments sake can be watched. 

This and the discussion of living caves got me thinking, What if an uncontroled 'PC [hero non controled]' enters and leavse a cave?  Which got me further thinking about what are and do NPC  hero parties DO in the game. what game play effects do they have?


So i've given it some thought, and here is what i've got running around my skull.

RE 'PC' Cave crawling.  [some of this should be in https://forums.elementalgame.com/363350 meaningful dungeons but is here instead]

As i see it, PC's could be handled a few ways,
Firstly they could be purely cosmetic, they are shown going in and out of a dangerous cave, but really it's just for show :- (. 
The only benifit to this is you don't have to 'race' the PC's to clean out dungons/pick up supplies.

Second. PC's could legitimately be out in the would, battling and seaking to fufill goals and missions of thier own, But if that's so how does one prevent them from stripping the landscape bare? Once a cave has been emptied. . . what's left . . . and what happens to the swag?

Thus i propose that PC's (all non channaler family hero characters in the game) have goals, a reason why they are wanderers, and not home bodies. Not just backstories, but self contained microquests. These hero's with thier quests would also have allianments. chanllers they like, and dislike trust and distrust. 
 
In most 4E fantacy games when you higher a hero, that hero's yours, to do with as you see fit forever. I propose instead that Elemental NPC 'PC's' 'remember' their goals, and remain with you only so far as it is mutually benificial.

A non allied 'PC' will contiue on thier quests, collecting items, raiding ruins, killing kobolts and (this is key) selling anything they don't need to progress towards thier goals.  That's what a PC does after raiding a mine, or delving a cave, is return to the nearest town and sell all but thier best equipment to buy food, water, a nights stay in a inn, and potions of lesser cure wounds. All of which turn a profit, which you then tax.  So you can send your troops to clear a cave,  or hope (incurage) the PC's will return to your town to spend thier finds. (taking only 80% of the revenue, rather then all of it. for example, and perhaps not getting the sword of +5, but getting the sword of +4 instead because the figher kept the +5 and sold his old +4.).  An allied PC could be sent in dirrectly and would return everything as any other troop, unless the terms specified otehrwise.


So what kinds of goals could NPC 'PC's have?   Collect a certain set of unique artifacts to enact a ritual to do (insert big thing here)? get revenge against blot channler or blot hero for blot offence (burning down thier hometown). 'defeat a great evil'. 'defeat a great good'.  This could ofcourse be one of the ballancing aspects of choosing Death magic.  'PC's tend to think your evil, and therfor 'good' 'PC's will take arms against you, more often then 'PC's will take arms against life magic users. (evil PC's might take arms against a good Channaler, but more likely will take arms against whomever gets between them and thier goal.)  IN general all unique artifacts could have an assosiated quest that may or may not become activated, that PC parties will attempt to get thier hands on that item.

What do other people think?  hwo detailed do you want Channeler (non family)hero interactions to be?

Take care all

Robbie Price

5,636 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

...why are you calling NPCs PCs?  I am confused.  Just call them neutral NPCs or something. 

EDIT- I thought we controlled the channler's (PC) children?  Unless we give them a city and make them a vassal of course.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I was using the term PC in the sense that it's used in   'the order of the stick' "IF any of you encounter real resistence, retreat, I don't want to see anybody trying to be a PC out there."

All the towns foke are NPC's, and your family members are  NPC's of a sort, but they are conrolled, until you marry them off presumibly.  I could have said 'non family hero's'  all the time,  but that seamed clunky

take care

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah...or said it once at least, but I could just be stupid.  Now at least I can understand some things up there.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I thought i did in the title, and again in the first paragraph


'PC's'{not channlers, just called PC's, they would be us, if we were roleplaying in the universe as them}
End of quote


but i suppose i could have made it clearer, or stated it more times, It was 1 am, brain was not fully with it.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Dude, if you think that's clear at all, I want what you got.  That's classic burnout explanation sentence, no offense.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

  
In most 4E fantacy games when you higher a hero, that hero's yours, to do with as you see fit forever. I propose instead that Elemental NPC 'PC's' 'remember' their goals, and remain with you only so far as it is mutually benificial.

End of quote

Some heroes could be designed to follow this method, but it shouldn't be for all heroes.  If I spend time raising a hero several levels, equipping him with items, raising his attributes with magic potions and winning battles then as time passes I grow more attached to the heroes.  For main heroes to suddenly walk away from a player it's devastating not only strategically, but emotionally as well.

Now this would be okay for mercenary type heroes... who've been paid gold or linked with a specific quest or specific campaign story thus the player specifically knows the duration.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

PC's could legitimately be out in the would, battling and seaking to fufill goals and missions of thier own, But if that's so how does one prevent them from stripping the landscape bare? Once a cave has been emptied. . . what's left . . . and what happens to the swag?
End of quote

For every adventurer that actually empties out a cave, 5 more will try but end up eaten by whatever monster/bear happens to be calling that cave home (and refilling the cave with their fancy equipment.) It's the circle of life ;)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

It can be fun to have to ask many many people to recover an artefact that was suppose to be in a particular cave, but a heroe have take it and sold it a the city. Then another heroe have bought it and leave for another town... etc... many side quest can be in that way much more longuer than supposed...

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Goodmorning all

Quoting stupored, reply 7


For every adventurer that actually empties out a cave, 5 more will try but end up eaten by whatever monster/bear happens to be calling that cave home (and refilling the cave with their fancy equipment.) It's the circle of life
End of stupored's quote



The only problem with that is that if you clear out a cave there is no more bear,  and anybody the cave can whipe out now will only have weapons / armour at best the same level as what you can produce,  (for a cave near you).

But yes generally that is also an option.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Personally I think that the "goals" system like the one you described is one of the only ways in which to execute the "RPG Kingdom" feel that this game is supposed to represent.  Each character in the game, to include your children, vassals and heroes, should have a goal that they are attempting to attain at any given moment.  Personally I think that these goals should for the most part be pragmatic ones, such as acquire a fiefdom, make money, get married, have children, acquire treasure, become ruler (naturally a bit dangerous for you), ect.  Enacting rituals of magic or other things that were mentioned in the above post are merely a means to an end after all.  For the necromancer building his tower on a slaughtered city left behind by the player, acquireing a book of power could be a subsidiary goal on his way to the actual goal of world domination.  For the vassal who possesses a castle and a few small villages, "protecting his patrimony" would be a perfectly acceptable goal, consistent with the duties of a loyal and competent vassal.  On the other hand, a similar vassal with the goal of "making money" might opt to either set up businesses (causing his lands to prosper), or squeeze his peasants dry (enriching himself but damaging his lands)... or becoming a kind of land pirate the way that medieval lords often did, raiding their neighbors of their own or differing kingdoms.  A vassal who has the goal of acquiring more territory might very well start wars to get it unless they can be kept in check, and a vassal who has the goal of "becoming the ruler" is someone who might very well come up with a number of nefarious schemes or alliances to overthrow you.

Many might say that what I suggest would be too frustrating for the player, but to avoid that everything should be controllable.  That vassal who has a tendency to go starting wars on his own hook can be brought into line by stationing a strong army near his borders and giving him a warning against aggression, or otherwise inhibiting his actions.  That vassal that goes raiding anyone near him can be stopped by constructing a series of watchtowers, so his indiscretions will become public knowledge, thus becoming grounds for his removal if he persists.

And finally, that wandering group of adventurers that has accumulated masses of treasure and enjoyed a long adventuring experience should put that money into a business, or fortress, or title of nobility (all of which requires permission from whomever owns the land they use... if anyone does that is), which they then pass on to their children, and which actually influences the land and area around it as they or their children use the said stronghold or business to enforce their own ends.