Hill problems

assuming its a 3D world with moveable camera angles

from Elemental Forums

Right now I have a big problem with how elemental displays elevation. I realise we are looking at stills and if the camera is moveable and rotatable we will be able to move it and get an understanding of it. But right now looking at the stills I find it really hard to see where the hills start.

 

ok now sorry I linked to IGN, would like to link them in here but im feeling incompetant

http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14295360/elemental-war-of-magic/images/elemental-war-of-magic--20090824034821005.html

http://uk.pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14295360/elemental-war-of-magic/images/elemental-war-of-magic--20090824034823661.html

 

these two are fairly typical of the problem. As you can see its not a problem when the light source is behind the hill and throwing a shadow, but when the hill has the light source in front of it its very hard to get a feeling of where the flat ground is.this is shown in the hills on the left of both these images.

 

Now perhaps the elevation wont have a gameplay effect and so it wont be that critical. But I find it visually jarring, it gives me an impression of going from a 2D map to a 3D map.

elemental
8,045 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top

The game is in Alpha. The engine is nowhere near finished. Don't worry about it just yet. ;)

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

nah not really good enough. I am well aware of where the game is in terms of development. btw my impression is that the engine is almost finished, and that development was now based on gameplay.

 

Be that as it may how do you address the problem? lets assume that everything else in the game is complete how do you address this lack of apparent transition from flat to slope? I think it is an artifact of the art style (which I think is great on the whole) and I'm not sure how you would change it without a shader/reflection engine. So perhaps thats the answer. However I think the apparent flatness of the world graphics is a major hurdle to overcome. That and I was wondering if anyone else feels the same way.

 

Interstingly I dont have these problems where the camera view is more parallel to the ground (i.e. towards the horizon) or where the hills are more closely overlapping and the pen line of the hill outline gives you distinction. Recalling the interview on IGN about the art I remember that the art style is based on strong pen lines with soft washes with the pen lines being used to give definition....well how do you give definition using that paradigm without pen lines? I suppose you could circle (or contour) the base of the hill, but I have a suspicion that would look a bit crap. clearly you cant use heavy washes or there will be a disconect between the characters and the landscape...

 

 

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

So, does it matter where the hill starts? I kind of like the idea that its gradual and that there is not this artificial boundry between "flat land" and "hill". The real world rarly has such distinctions, and I think so long as the devs don't impose some silly restrictions on where your city can be built it will be nice ( e.g. like it must be only on perfectly flat land because no one in the history of the world has figured out how to build on a slope... sorry Romans...).

 

Silantra

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

So, does it matter where the hill starts? I kind of like the idea that its gradual and that there is not this artificial boundry between "flat land" and "hill". The real world rarly has such distinctions, and I think so long as the devs don't impose some silly restrictions on where your city can be built it will be nice ( e.g. like it must be only on perfectly flat land because no one in the history of the world has figured out how to build on a slope... sorry Romans...).
End of quote

This.

I think the pics look fine. It IS still in alpha, whether thats good enough for you or not. Worst case, don't buy it.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

The pics in the last dev post are more saying:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/362576

 

The problem still remains, somewhat, but I honestly don't think that it'll be a problem

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Huh? Those pictures look great. The art style is very unique and pleasing. 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

The pictures on IGN have a zoomed in view, so you're not really seeing the whole hill, which makes it harder to tell.  If you look at the picture linked by CoffeeMonkey, you'll see it is much easier to tell where the hills are.  Also, you're right in that it is harder to tell with a still than a moving game.  When you move the camera around, you'll see the differences in the way the light hits the hill which makes it very clear where the land is sloped. 

Quoting duzza, reply 2
nah not really good enough. I am well aware of where the game is in terms of development. btw my impression is that the engine is almost finished, and that development was now based on gameplay.
End of duzza's quote

While we are starting to work on gameplay features, we're still working on the engine.  Often new gameplay features will require changes or tweaks to the way the engine works, or we'll come up with a way to improve how something in the engine works or looks (for example, we recently revamped the lighting scheme used by the engine).  The engine is more of a living project than an "ok, it's done now" kind of thing.

 

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

thanks for that Piccy Coffeemonkey ya put my worries to rest. Thanks for the response CodeCritter the zoom does seem to be part of it.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

If you are doing the second beta in a few months (the first one is cloth map only so it won't affect this) you can see if this really is a problem and tell SD if it is (that's what betas are for).

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting astrath, reply 10
If you are doing the second beta in a few months (the first one is cloth map only so it won't affect this) you can see if this really is a problem and tell SD if it is (that's what betas are for).
End of astrath's quote

oh I will, I'm looking forward to it cause I'm not the sort of person who usually pushes things so I'm always happy to get a dev response to something I raise. I usually just move on to a new game if I think something is an issue and it doesn't get addressed (and by addressed I mean a discussion from a dev not a fanboi about why a particular choice was taken, I'm fine if it doesn't go my way I just want a reasoned answer as to why I'm wrong)

 

so I'm quite interested and hopeful to be involved with a stardock beta (my first with them, unfortunatly not my first beta)