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Corrupted Sovreigns and their Children

Corrupted Sovreigns and their Children

Ok, I know there have been a lot of threads about this popping ever since it was announced that you could marry off your children to create alliances, etc, but NTJedi's survey got me thinking; How would sovreigns that have corrupted their appearence through spells, evil, etc have kids? (And no, I don't want *those* answers:P )

What I mean is, Elemental is supposed to have extensive channeler customization, correct? I assume that some of this involves possably changing species, etc. I also assume (not that I have any basis for any of this;P ) that what "path" you take, good, evil, etc will affect your appearence.

So, if you are evil enough, you might turn into something like, to use a LotR example, a giant flaming eye. Now, how would a giant eye, you know, have kids? Since it would obviously be impossible for that to happen in the usual way, I have come up with some alternatives. And even if your appearence hasn't changed, what woman, or man, depending on your gender, would want to marry a evil overlord? Although, since you're already evil, you could just force them, but that might lead to some nasty repercussionsX|

Anyway, here are my ideas:

1. You "create" your children using magic and probably some essence. Both the upside and downside of this is that the child would have pretty much no personality or opinions of their own, other than what you tell them. So you wouldn't have to worry about them leading a revolt against you or anything, but on the other hand, when you're trying to find them a prospective mate, who would want to marry something so boring and souless.

2. Of my two ideas, this is definetly my favorite. Basicly, you forgo the concept of children entirely. To continue the LotR example, you use something like rings to create powerful minions (ie, Ringwraiths) So you create these rings or whatever, then you "give" them to other players, sovreigns, etc, but they don't know that this item will corrupt them. If they equip it, they are slowly (over a number of turns) turned into your minion. Maybe at first, after a while, they are forced to form a permanent alliance with your empire, then they become a vassal state, until eventually their kingdom is under your control.

And obviously, these items would have to provide some sort of bonus, to make the other sovreign want to equip it in the first place. And if they realize what they have soon enough, they can get rid of it, no harm done, but if they wait too long, they can't, and they are slowly turned to your side.

I think this could add some interesting mechanics to the game. When you're paying "tribute" to another player, you slip in your item along with credits, resources, tech, etc that you give them. Maybe there could be a spell that would reveal such items, so you know when you're being tricked. And if you know you're being tricked, you might want to go to war against that player, since they think you're stupid enough to fall for it:P

Of course, this is all moot if it turns out that you don't have the kind of channeler customization that I envisionX| But other than that, what are your thoughts?

19,566 views 40 replies
Reply #26 Top

 

Gandalf lost his physical form after the battle with the Balrog and returned to Valinor in spiritual form. The Valar sent him back to complete his mission and helped him to restore life to his body but even with that help it took some time to recover it fully (he was very light at the start and weak). At the same time they lifted some of the restrictions on him that they placed on the Istari to prevent them from completing the mission with power instead of wisdom.
End of quote

I'm not sure if I agree that Gandalf used power more than wisdom any more as "the White" than as "the Grey".  I actually wrote a paper years ago on the use of magic and power in The Lord of the Rings.  It's actually interesting how little Gandalf used direct power.  Something I liked tremendously was that the most powerful acts of magic were the most subtle.

Off the top of my head...

Gandalf the Grey

  1. Fireworks (arguable)
  2. Looming in Bag End (anger over Bilbo's accusation of avarice)
  3. The fight on Weathertop (not seen, but alluded to)
  4. The Flood of Bruinen (Gandalf took credit for the foaming horses; Elrond actually called the flood itself)
  5. The fight against the werewolves in Hollin
  6. Caradhras: Alighting the kindling
  7. Moria: Light
  8. Barring the Door from the Chamber of Mazarbul
  9. Collapsing the Chamber of Mazarbul
  10. The Bridge of Khazad-dûm

Gandalf the White

  1. Amon Hen: mis-directing the Eye of Sauron to protect Frodo, or perhaps just speaking to Frodo
  2. Fangorn: Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are unable to strike him
  3. Curing Theoden's mind
  4. Compelling Saruman; breaking his staff
  5. Driving off the Nazgûl on the Pelennor Fields prior to the Siege of Minas Tirith
  6. The Gate of Minas Tirith: The Lord of the Nazgûl is unable to strike him (debateable - the scene is one of the most uncertain, but I think I could make a good argument for this)

 

Reply #27 Top

Also - All you Harry Potter readers out there: no spoilers.  I've only read the first three books so far.  #:(

Reply #28 Top

It's actually interesting how little Gandalf used direct power. Something I liked tremendously was that the most powerful acts of magic were the most subtle.
End of quote

Agreed, that's always fascinated me.  The power of the wizards seemed to lie less in throwing fire and lightning around, and more in subtle shifts and changes in the world around them.  (During the chase of the orcs, 'soem strange will pits itself against [them]', speeding the orcs adn slowing the rescuers, as an example.)

Reply #29 Top

Quoting Ynglaur, reply 27
Also - All you Harry Potter readers out there: no spoilers.  I've only read the first three books so far. 
End of Ynglaur's quote

 

well get to readin'!

Reply #30 Top

Quoting Ron, reply 28

It's actually interesting how little Gandalf used direct power. Something I liked tremendously was that the most powerful acts of magic were the most subtle.


Agreed, that's always fascinated me.  The power of the wizards seemed to lie less in throwing fire and lightning around, and more in subtle shifts and changes in the world around them.  (During the chase of the orcs, 'soem strange will pits itself against [them]', speeding the orcs adn slowing the rescuers, as an example.)
End of Ron's quote

Something else about this is that Saruman, who is supposedly "stronger" than Gandalf--at the beginning, at least--seems to use even less magic. The only thing I can really remember him doing is the storm on Caradhras (that was him, right?)

The books said repeatedly that his true "power" was his voice and his ability to sway the decisions of other people, which arugebly isn't even magic. Just to use an example, Hitler had the ability to get the Germans to do basicly whatever he wanted, with only his speeches.

Reply #31 Top

Something else about this is that Saruman, who is supposedly "stronger" than Gandalf--at the beginning, at least--seems to use even less magic. The only thing I can really remember him doing is the storm on Caradhras (that was him, right?)
End of quote

Movie, yes, books, no.  In the books, Caradhras just doesn't like people trying to climb over it.  But don't forget the chase scene, where he (albiet subtly) aids the orcs and hinders the rescuers.

 

Anyway,t he point is his powers waned before the series started, as a result of his obsession with the Ring and his turning towards Mordor.

 

Also, remember just how much further his 'vocal' persuasion went that what Hitler could manage; even knowing he was an enemy, he swayed everyone except Theoden and Gandalf when they approached Orthanc.  That's more than 'mortal' skills.

Reply #32 Top

Also, remember just how much further his 'vocal' persuasion went that what Hitler could manage; even knowing he was an enemy, he swayed everyone except Theoden and Gandalf when they approached Orthanc. That's more than 'mortal' skills.
End of quote

Random hero: Aaaah, you killed my father, I want revenge...

Saruman: Off course I killed him, he tried to ruin my evil plans.

Random hero: Oh.... Well, guess he deserved it then. Sorry to bother you...

Reply #33 Top

Random hero: Aaaah, you killed my father, I want revenge...

Saruman: Off course I killed him, he tried to ruin my evil plans.

Random hero: Oh.... Well, guess he deserved it then. Sorry to bother you...
End of quote

Precisely; Saruman doesn't just talk people out of things, he charms (in the magical sense) them.

Reply #34 Top

Something else about this is that Saruman, who is supposedly "stronger" than Gandalf--at the beginning, at least--seems to use even less magic. The only thing I can really remember him doing is the storm on Caradhras (that was him, right?)

Movie, yes, books, no. In the books, Caradhras just doesn't like people trying to climb over it. But don't forget the chase scene, where he (albiet subtly) aids the orcs and hinders the rescuers.
End of quote

I seem to remember him being responsible for Caradhras in the books, too, although I could very well be remembering them incorrectly. The Fellowship of the Ring is by far the book (and movie) that I have read/seen the least out of all 3 (4 if you count the Hobbit, 5 if you count the Silmarillian (dang that's hard to spell;P ))

Reply #35 Top

I just recently reread the books (gee, I wonder why?  :D ) so my memory is fairly fresh.  They blamed their difficulties Caradhras 'himself', not Saruman, because he (it?) doesn't like men.  Now, whether Saruman decided to stir the pot (or not) isn't said, but it's the movie where it's clearly spelled out that Saruman is involved.

Reply #36 Top

Quoting Ron, reply 35
I just recently reread the books (gee, I wonder why?  ) so my memory is fairly fresh.  They blamed their difficulties Caradhras 'himself', not Saruman, because he (it?) doesn't like men.  Now, whether Saruman decided to stir the pot (or not) isn't said, but it's the movie where it's clearly spelled out that Saruman is involved.
End of Ron's quote

Ok, I obviously didn't remember that well. I guess I should go reread them now;P

Reply #37 Top

In most cases the movies do a TERRIBLE recreation of the books....
End of quote

Starship Troopers is probably the best example of this, followed by Jurassic Park and The Lost World.

Reply #38 Top

Caradhras was a haunted mountain, with at least one, and probably many, malign spirits.  At the least, that is how the Fellowship interpreted their attempt.

Interesting fun-fact: Gandalf broke Saruman's staff, thus severing the symbol of and right to the power of the Valar.  He could not, however, take from him his voice, for that was his own gift, and part of his nature.

Okay, and my post relates to sovereigns and their corrupted children how?.... :p

Reply #39 Top

Okay, and my post relates to sovereigns and their corrupted children how?.... :P
End of quote

Well, Saruman was effectively the child of Eru Illuvatar, and Saruman became corrupted. And Eru Illuvatar is kind of like the ultimate sovereign of Arda, so you're not too far off :D

Reply #40 Top

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