Navies

I have wondered how stardock will handle naval combat, your idea's sound good.

If Elemental has navies, it should implement the ideas above.  I don't remember seeing anything about ship warfare, but I'm not quite as active as others.

If navies can't add strategic depth and are enjoyable to play, I'd rather they be left out.  Either that, or make them so basic/easy to use that their inclusion doesn't cause any problems.

Along these lines, I'd also be interested in knowing whether or not bridges could be built over rivers or not.

I covered a related topic regarding water vessels :

      https://forums.elementalgame.com/336953

I definitely hope water terrain and water activity will have great game depth.

I'm ok with autoresolve, or the MoM style where your units get the same tactical map as land approach.  Either way allows for the benifits of island kindoms etc... which is pretty important.  You raise some good points, but I'm guessing that won't make the initial release, an expasion with that would be cool.

I recall hearing somewhere (and no I can't quote the source... I think it was one of the comments made in the commentary to one of the earlier development diaries) that naval combat was going to be pretty much autocalc only, much the way that Rome and Medieval Total War are.

Although that being said, having an in-depth naval dimension to the game would be absolutely fantastic.

Man, there have been so many "what we wish we had in the water" threads.   I know I've talked about floating islands and cities (like floating in the sea, not in the sky... though I'd happily take either)  and underwater or at least water based dungeons.   Sea monsters, and pirates......

We'll just have to see what happens.

I'd imagine we will see water channelers able to shape the coast, causing water magic to be a big deal if you're planning to be the supreme naval power.   (end game of course, where earth might raise land in place of the newly created coast, then create a wall of uncrossable mountains that prevents naval landing and amphibious assaults)

Personally I think that the realistic aspects of naval warfare and their impact on strategy cannot be overstated, and to simplify this all important aspect of the medieval world (after all it was the only efficient way to ship bulk goods), is an unfortunate tendency.

If they study naval warfare and do it right, fucking awesome.  Just imagine having ships rake each other with trebuchet fire before grappling and having a blood bath between the crews.  You could do it with tactical combat and have pure awesome.

Unfortunately, history tells us that naval warfare will suck, so I'd rather not get my hopes up.  If it's going to suck, I'm opting for the minimalist approach.  Hassle me with it as little as possible, to the point of being able to pretend it doesn't exist on various map settings.

I hate to say it, but its really not that important in a game like this. The reason it is so often understated in games is because to properly model it you need to implement a bunch of things like important and tangible water based trade, naval bombardment, sea lanes, etc. While these will add a new aspect to the game, they also clutter it up. Without them, most players get by with a tiny navy that acts more like the army's personal ferry survice than a real force.

If they know they can do it right, give it a go, otherwise don't try.

Which is why you give fleets an engagement radius (to prevent the ferry system from sneaking by under the enemies nose).  In a medieval game naval bombardment isn't really a factor (as the weapons in question didn't really have the destructive power or the range to be anything but tactical in nature), and water based trade could, in large part, be handled through a ship based version of the wagon transportation system that has been discussed for land based trade.

After playing E:TW's naval combat system, i have realized why ship combat has rarely been modeled in games. Its cause there is very little variety in terms of tactics and strategy. You either shoot each other at range or try to ram and board enemy ships.

Unlike land battles where you can have a variety of strategies: cavalry, spearmen, swordsmen, archers and terrain and ambushes.

Without the variety, there really is not much point to naval battles and it might as well be automated. Maybe what we can have is just some choice in the automation strategy like defensive/offensive, formations or what spells we would like to cast in aide of the battle.

I've been pushing more towards having underwater sea battles... which opens a whole new realm of possibilities with creatures, spells, structures, and items.  One type of spell may be powerful on land, but weak underwater  OR  vise versa.   One creature may be weak on land, but powerful underwater  OR  vise versa.

In E:TW i didn't bother to fight the naval battles as the worst that they could do to me was blockade my ports. It just wasn't worth the 15-30 minutes fighting the ship battles. If they landed ground troops they would be instantly annihilated.

In contrast, games like Civ had a more useful and prominent navy. Ships could bombard and destroy cities. Tactical and nuclear missles could be fired from ships. Aircraft carriers also acted as refueling stops for your bombers so that they could launch attacks deeper into the enemy empire.

Ultimately it would depend on wether sea's feature prominently in the overall strategy of the game. It is not worth the effort to invest in naval combat strategies and features if navies don't really contribute a valuable significant edge in the overall game.

Navies definately sound like a great idea. Good ideas too. As long as there are boats to get armies from one place to another though I'm happy. Perhaps even "Flying Ships" ala Final Fantasy would be nice. You know the old school ships with hellicopter props on them to make them fly. Or maybe ships with blimps attached to them so they float. The upgraded versions could be levitated by magic of course. Also on that note, perhaps flying cittadels as well

Pirates!!!!

Nuff' said

I would settle for an auto-resolve for naval combat, a CIV-4 type use of ships would be awsome too, but i would like to see trade by sea and other stratigic uses of the waters. Fully done naval combat does not seem needed right now, i would rather stick to land battles, or ship-boarding situations if the hero units are involved(like Heroes of might and Magic III)

I agree with the ship-boarding situations...  also hopefully there's plans to include underwater sea battles or at least within an expansion.