Different Fort Types for more strategy

Why restrict it to one type? I always thought of forts as being to some degree modular, with different things that you can put on in edifferent combinations.

In my example each of the fort types can be upgraded further, but a wizards tower would never match the defense of a castle.  The player can improve each structure as long as time and resources allow the upgrades.  I'll definitely add the upgraded further description into the original post.

All previous TBS games have only included a linear upgrade path for improving defenses or worse a single type of fort with no option.  The different fort types would allow both a visual improvement as well as a strategic improvement.

I think this is a great idea.

Based on the what I understand to be the philosophy of the game. It could be implemented by creating an upgradeable "fort/tower" or defensive building type. The buidling itself would have no name, maybe some basic defensive value, and would have a limited number of upgrade slots for you to choose your specialization.

Maybe similar to GC2 you could have to ability to build larger building types in the future with more upgrade slot capabilities or better upgrades which you could place on the building.

It might also behove the game balance issues to have to start newer, larger, defensive structures from scratch instead of limitlessly upgrading the same "fort/tower" building.

I think it's a very good idea, but I would prefer a system with benefits/penalties. For example: +10% defense, -5% training, -5% attack. This way the player would have to think about the tradeoff, and think a little more about making decisions and plan for the future in the game.

To take it to an extreme, build castle design into it ala the ancient "Castles" game.

Or to be more reasonable, I love the modular upgrades thing, and I like the possibility that turtling could become a viable strategy to some extent. After all, fortresses had massive strategic significance in medieval times.

I like this, although I think there should be one more. I don't know what to call it, but it would be basicly like Barad-dur (again, I know not everyone likes LotR, but it's the best way to get my idea across) It's a super-fortress that is nearly idestrucable, but costs essence to make it.

And I know I've been pushing this idea quite a bit , but I want it in game dang it!  

Why would it be more like the Orthanc? It was built by highly skilled craftsmen, no magic, etc involved. Barad-dur, on the other hand, was built by Sauron putting part of his life force into the foundations of the tower, making it indescructable until Sauron himself was killed (well, technically the ring, but whatever, same thing )

I'd love to be able to build customized defenses that got used on the battle map.  Different preset types would be acceptable, but you should be doing a lot better than stat changes when you have tactical combat available.

Sounds too limited to me. I don't want to decide between a wizards tower and a giant castle. Whats to stop me from building a giant castle and adding a wizards tower to it?

It would be better if the sectors or tiles we built into cities determined thier function. A city with lots of barracks and a strong wall is essentially a fort.

Also, the "center" tile of a city is considered the most important, so why not give us the ability to upgrade that tile into a city hall, castle, wizard tower etc?

  That removes not only the visual variations since by mid_game all major players will be using the wizards tower and giant castle combo, but it also sends us back to using a linear path where one or two types are superior.  Each type of fort should provide unique advantages which can be gradually improved so there's more strategic paths.

A city with barracks and a strong wall would be rated as the default option_1 with no advantages beyond what's provided from the wall and the building type.  Once one of the fort types listed in the original post have been constructed the player would receive specific advantages which can be incorporated into a larger strategy.   The list of fort types can be made available from the "center" tile.

The visual benefit is that most enemy capitals will be different which is more visually appealing then having all enemy capitals look like one of two choices.  Based on screenshots from the journals I believe we currently only have a good(life) and evil(death) capital image.  The fort types could also be modded where gamers could add their own new forts with new images and benefits.  The strategic benefit allows for specific strategic benefits for each location which can be part of a larger strategy.   Naturally how the tiles for each city will also influence the location as well.  

I still don't quite get what you mean. Are you saying that we could upgrade the center "home" tile in a variety of ways?

Because if so we end up with boring cities. Instead of building a city AS a fortress you end up with "a city" with a fortress plopped down on its home tile.

What about building towers, forts, etc. outside of cities? I was hoping that you could build one in the pass through which enemies might easily come. That way you have the bonuses the tower grants? I guess this is similar to Starbases in GC2. 

Additionally, maybe walls could combined with towers as well. Think great wall of China. Not cheap to build, but it would give you a great tactical advantage or protect your small peaceful kingdom against the larger aggressive enemies.

Rather than just a bonus like '+5% defense", since some units have physical attacks and some have magic attacks (and since there are different types of magic and different physical attacks like bow and melee)...

Why not have a system where the channeller can imbue various types of anti-magic?  For example, a +10% against dark magic might result in a -4% against life magic.  A ditch and palisaide might grant a +20% againse sword/spear units but a -5% against bow units since you are exposed when you are manning the wall and fighting against the melllee units. 

If the defense is within the radius of a magic node then an inherent defense against that type of magic might be automatic.  If the channeler wants to imbue part of his essense into the castle then the magic bonuses (attack and defense) might be significantly higher.

The city evolution would be separate from the optional fort types, thus if someone wanted a specific type of fort for specific advantages it would be the choice of the sovereign.  This allows for more strategic combinations such as a village with a citadel, a city with a wizards tower, etc., etc., .  The "home" tile would only be the location where the fort type is purchased for construction inside the game. 

Yes I agree...  I was going to begin a new topic specific for covering this idea in combination with other building structures on the main map.  Hopefully I'll have time this evening.

All great ideas which we can eventually test and adjust for game balance during beta testing if  Stardock is interested with this idea.

I think I'd want to see more of what kind of strategy is available before I go about promoting change.   I mean what does a "bonus" give in a tactical combat?

You really have to discuss how units would use these features or how they would appear on the tactical map for them to be functional in Elemental.  They'd be great as its written for Civilization, but it requires a lot more consideration for a tactical scale battle system.

Well that's why it would need to be tested during the beta phase for gameplay balance.  All the bonus examples are just arbitrary guesses... until we begin playing the tactical battles and acquiring the common resources we won't know what bonuses will be fair and balanced for each structure.  At this point we can't even place a cost on the structures or an estimated building time. 

I would like to see a more modular approach where you can't just build everything. (Space / Cost / Effeicency)

Some of your fort Items would be upgrades (Keep -> Castle) and others would be seperate buildings that had overlapping effects (Wizards Tower and a part of your keep may both  have a sight bonus, only the largest would be used).

Sammual

I like the more modular idea, it seems more fitting with the flexibility that Elemental seems to be shooting for.

Goodmorning all

One thing we may want to consider is Compounding bonuses.

A building with three 10% bonuses to defending against archery can be either

30% bonus against archers (linear), or
33.1% stronger (1.1^3 -1) 

Thus a tower can get exponentially good at something,(or bad at something) by adding together moduals that compliment eachother.  (rather then having to have the game with extra moduals like walls 1, walls 2, walls 3, which can only be build consecutively for 10% 11% and 12% respectively)  You only need one  basic 'wall' modual and you let compounding take care of the exponential growth,

Take care all.

The semi-random list in the OP is interesting, but I'm pretty sure it would be more fun if it was modular and not incremental.

Unless maybe you changed the verb 'upgrade' to something like 'remodel?' I don't see a clean upgrade path in the draft bonuses and I imagine I'd be very annoyed at having to somehow give up a line of sight bonus because I'd incorporated my skinny little tower into a sturdy basic town wall.

Hmph. I'd probably still want a modular approach. Something like that could help distinguish major, growing population centers from things like frontier garrisons and farming villages. Kinda seems like you should need to use up more land to gain substantial fortifcation bonuses, at least if you want to avoid interefering with whatever non-military activity is going on at the site.

Well, costs/production generally keep towns from gorwing all at once, plus some "modules" could be required to build others: doesn't seem so far-fetched to require, say, watchtowers in order to build the walls between them.

The modular approach is best in my view.

All types of buildings could be added and upgraded.

just a few additions:

Moat

Bailey

Square towers

Round towers

etc.

Lots of interesting info here