WTH? Factions? How?

from Elemental Forums

Ok. Really. You're one guy who gathers some people from the desert. One guy and a bunch of non-descript refugees from who knows where is not a faction. They probably all came from different backgrounds anyway. There's no way it's logical for you to choose a faction at the start of the game. A race yes, but a faction no. You're just one man (or being whatever) a faction is a collection of people with a shared culture, knowledge and/or beliefs. So I have an alternate plan or a couple alternate plans I suppose.

1. Build a faction as you go - Remember the random events in GalCiv 2 that determined wether you were evil or good? Bring them back and make them a little less random. As you reach population thresholds you are forced to make decisions that will imact what kind of culture your faction will have. Will you choose to execute your first criminal, banish him, or try to correct him mercifully? An injured member of the opposing race stumbles into your city what do you do? Ect, ect. Each situation carefully crafted to extract the traits of you as the leader. And because you are the leader the people will take your actions to heart and a culture emerges slowly but surely.

2. You are a prophet - This could actually be combined with the first or third option. You have a 'religion' to spread. A system of beliefs that you hold dear and you choose at the beginning of the game. When people come to join your colony you teach them said beliefs. You must decide how much resources you want to commit to inculcating these beliefs in your citizens and your personal presence is a big factor also. The greater your people's faith the stronger faction/culture specific units you can build and the greater your faction specific bonuses apply. I really really like this idea especially for the faction I have in mind that I really hope gets included.

3. A way to play the traditional system - Your channeler carries with him a book at the beginning that holds in it all the collected knowledge and history of one of the pre-cataclysmic cultures. This book becomes a sacred relic over time and the center of your culture (determining your capital city) losing it would be a huge blow obviously. This option I honestly like least, but it could be merged with 2 above so you can have a book OR your own personal faith. And it could also be combined with choice 1 so that you have a kind of 'base' culture but then it could branch in several different directions based on your in-game choices as the game goes on.

 

Let me know what y'all think. :)

5,999 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Basically the idea is that you start in an area where the people were already a faction and a culture, and the cataclysm has driven them into the wilds.  You form cities and they come back to you and live there.  If you read the lore section you can see how the world is very much based around rebuilding after a disaster rather than Civ style start of civilization.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Lore, logic and all that is not the important thing. It's about gamebalance and variety. Exchange 'factions' for races or sides. It really doesn't matter to me what you call them. Norse, Greeks and Egyptians in Age of Mythology. Elves, Dwarves, Humans and Undead in Age of Wonders to Germans, Russians, British and Spanish in Age of Empires 3.

 

The important thing is that the factions/races/sides are different enough so it's exciting to play as them.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting astrath, reply 1
Basically the idea is that you start in an area where the people were already a faction and a culture, and the cataclysm has driven them into the wilds.  You form cities and they come back to you and live there.  If you read the lore section you can see how the world is very much based around rebuilding after a disaster rather than Civ style start of civilization.
End of astrath's quote

Quoting Lore,
Over a hundred years ago, the world of Elemental was nearly destroyed by the powers that strode across the world like titans. In their quest for dominance, they unleashed utter devastation on the land, nearly wiping out all life.
End of Lore's quote

Over 100 years ago. With the harsh wilderness and whatnot that's gotta mean at least three generations if not four or five wandering alone as refugees or nomads. Whatever culture they had before is gone.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sarudak, reply 3
Quoting astrath, reply 1Basically the idea is that you start in an area where the people were already a faction and a culture, and the cataclysm has driven them into the wilds.  You form cities and they come back to you and live there.  If you read the lore section you can see how the world is very much based around rebuilding after a disaster rather than Civ style start of civilization.

Lore Page Over a hundred years ago, the world of Elemental was nearly destroyed by the powers that strode across the world like titans. In their quest for dominance, they unleashed utter devastation on the land, nearly wiping out all life.
Over 100 years ago. With the harsh wilderness and whatnot that's gotta mean at least three generations if not four or five wandering alone as refugees or nomads. Whatever culture they had before is gone.
End of Sarudak's quote

Why would it be gone? Peoples have maintained cultures as nomadic tribes for millenia.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

You're attacking a concept that's near universal in strategy game design.  Calling them factions instead of races doesn't make it any different than gaining new units in C&C.  A preset tree is a preset tree.

 

That said, I would prefer a more interesting tech tree implementation, but the faction and start out system is hardly cause to require it.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Ok. Really. You're one guy who gathers some people from the desert. One guy and a bunch of non-descript refugees from who knows where is not a faction. They probably all came from different backgrounds anyway. There's no way it's logical for you to choose a faction at the start of the game. A race yes, but a faction no. You're just one man (or being whatever) a faction is a collection of people with a shared culture, knowledge and/or beliefs. So I have an alternate plan or a couple alternate plans I suppose.

1. Build a faction as you go - Remember the random events in GalCiv 2 that determined wether you were evil or good? Bring them back and make them a little less random. As you reach population thresholds you are forced to make decisions that will imact what kind of culture your faction will have. Will you choose to execute your first criminal, banish him, or try to correct him mercifully? An injured member of the opposing race stumbles into your city what do you do? Ect, ect. Each situation carefully crafted to extract the traits of you as the leader. And because you are the leader the people will take your actions to heart and a culture emerges slowly but surely.

2. You are a prophet - This could actually be combined with the first or third option. You have a 'religion' to spread. A system of beliefs that you hold dear and you choose at the beginning of the game. When people come to join your colony you teach them said beliefs. You must decide how much resources you want to commit to inculcating these beliefs in your citizens and your personal presence is a big factor also. The greater your people's faith the stronger faction/culture specific units you can build and the greater your faction specific bonuses apply. I really really like this idea especially for the faction I have in mind that I really hope gets included.

3. A way to play the traditional system - Your channeler carries with him a book at the beginning that holds in it all the collected knowledge and history of one of the pre-cataclysmic cultures. This book becomes a sacred relic over time and the center of your culture (determining your capital city) losing it would be a huge blow obviously. This option I honestly like least, but it could be merged with 2 above so you can have a book OR your own personal faith. And it could also be combined with choice 1 so that you have a kind of 'base' culture but then it could branch in several different directions based on your in-game choices as the game goes on.

 

Let me know what y'all think.
End of quote

 

I for one really like these ideas, and I think the build-your-faction-over-time option would be especially interesting, even if it does not define your faction entirely.  Good thinking, Sar.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 4


Why would it be gone? Peoples have maintained cultures as nomadic tribes for millenia.
End of KellenDunk's quote

 

Yes. Nomadic tribes have maintained their culture as nomadic tribes for centuries. Not settled cultures that suddenly become scattered wandering nomads for generations. Totally different

 

You're attacking a concept that's near universal in strategy game design.  Calling them factions instead of races doesn't make it any different than gaining new units in C&C.  A preset tree is a preset tree.

 

That said, I would prefer a more interesting tech tree implementation, but the faction and start out system is hardly cause to require it.

End of quote

I'm not attacking it. It's a great system that's worked fine for many games. What I'm saying is the traditional faction system doesn't make alot of sense given the game's premise so why not try something more unique and interesting? A dynamic faction system is something I've never seen before but could be really really cool if implemented well especially in a game centered around customization.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

You forget the fact that you are creating that faction during the game. You only pick up which type you want to play before you begin but once you do, your channeler is supposed to filter the individuals who join his ranks. And later members that could come would be filtered by the already stablished members of your community.

Not against some kind of dinamic choice of faction but considering that we don't know not even how magic works, I don't want to imagine the pains to balance that it could mean to  the spell selection and development lines. Free form civilization would be nice but the basic game doesn't seem to be oriented to that. Customization will be there but some of it (if which I don't know if this will be one) will be done by the users and not Stardock.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Think of it like this. The culture and people you choose at the start of the game is your vision for how you want your society to look. As the game progresses, you (the channeler, king, emperor, whatever) automaticly works to realize that vision.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

I think your #3 could resemble whatever the devs/writers might already have planned, and the traditional approach definitely needs a good back story to help Elemental be its own game. Your #2 seems like a secondary variation on #3.

Re your #1, I have no idea how hard it would be to code or if it would drive too many potential players away, but I'd really like to see something like a mini-game option for map setup that took something like the GC2 colonization-ethics events and made them into their own little 5- or 10-minute world. That could yield 'true sandbox factions,' assuming that the AIs could do an adequate job of keeping themselves varied but not crippled.