Will there be a lineage in Elemental?

As I recall GW Swicord mentioned something similar to this in another thread but there is currently no official news confirming or denying a lineage systems existence in Elemental. That is one feature I always kind of liked in Total War although I hated how wives didn't really have major stats of their own. If Elemental does have a lineage system I would like to see a serious amount of thought go into it. So a channeler's child could potentially have a mix of strengths and weaknesses not only from their parents but grand and great grand parents. This would really add some "historic" context to a particular kingdom. 

I love the lineage system...it offers so much story to the sandbox mode. Plus. the fact that they age makes one less inclined to be annoyed at their loss, seeing as they would eventually die anyway. I just lost a general (Rome TW) in battle last week defending a province against ridiculous odds, but damn I loved the idea that he went down swinging after a such a long and fruitful life.

Well...he only "lived" an afternoon...but you know...

I hate it, but then I never lose them in battle...  Noob!

I think the lineages system worked very well in TW but i don't think it would fly so well in EWOM. For one thing, i don't really see my Channeller marrying over and over and siring tons of children, i think it would actually take something away from the game. For another, i think that when heroes die it would be better if you had to recruit more rather than merely hire their sons/daughters. As for generals, i think how TW:E handles it is better than previous incarnations of the game. Basically you 'hire' them, they can gain traits and they don't have children, although they do die of old age. I wouldn't be upset to see it in the game but I really don't think it's necessary.

Aye...It was my first game so I can be called nothing but noob, but then I've always enjoyed the noob period of games more than the mastery period, generally more fun I reckon.

But as for you...srsly never? Not even once? You've never had a weak flank in you kingdom that got besieged from nowhere? I assume you must be ommiting an old age scenario, but surely you've lost one in glorious battle!? Criminy...I had one that was such a flog that I delibately sent him into the wilderness Mad Max 3 style to get canned.

You must be incredibly meticulous.

If you master the use of wardogs, invincibility is your state of existence.  Four sets of them pretty much guarantees an army suffers little to no casualties against equal forces.  When you're killing the enemy at 100-1 or better ratios, you don't have weak flanks.  I do however suicide the fairies.

Yeah yeah yeah, I'm a bigot, blow me.

There's some talk related to this in A time and Weather idea and Making Heroes Interesting.

I still think something like this could be a really neat part of a TBS game, but maybe not Elemental this time around. The real rub is the calendar problem--there are too many different parts of a game like Civ or Elemental that work on different timescales, so the games are required to apply heavy abstraction, which undermines efforts to do things like model the Merovingians or Tokugawas.

Shame, really. Could do all manner of amazing things with a pregnant channeler.

I feel the weather idea would really help the Elemental realm to feel more real and would add new strategic options.   To see a rain storm moving over a battlefield thus any archers with regular bows or fire mages suffer. 

The time line would potentially be a problem if the Channeler can get married and have children and the children themselves could pose a problem. I can see a way around this given Elemental’s sketchy plot but some assumptions would need to be made.

Assumptions:

1. Channelers can only have one child.
2. Channelers can die of old age.
3. Effectiveness of a Channeler at old age X (let’s say 110) is directly proportional to the amount of essence he has.  
4. Channelers pass all remaining essence to their child upon death.
5. Having a child siphons some of your essence until they reach adulthood.
6. The child succeeds his parent as Channeler after their death becoming the new main character.

Now given these assumptions the player would have four play styles available to them from the game’s start.

A. Keep some reasonable amount of essence perhaps 1/12 of your total starting essence to largely negate the effects of age. This type of Channeler would have a vast flourishing empire, no child, and essentially not age.

B. Invest almost all your essence in building a huge empire to the point that you age normally. Getting married and having a child is now mandatory to continue the game since your Channeler will eventually die of old age. This type of Channeler would have a vast flourishing empire, a child, die of old age, and a dynasty system of succession.

C. Keep almost all your essence for yourself resulting in near immortality. This Channeler would have a small but powerful empire, no child, and be virtually immortal.

D. Invest a decent amount of essence in your empire but retain maybe 1/2 of your total essence. Then you get married and have a child. After your child is grown you have about 1/3 of your total essence left to play with. This type of Channeler has a medium sized empire, a child, and essentially does not age.

Now you could add more complexity but it really wouldn’t be necessary since every play style is well represented in this model. Don’t want children but want a large empire? No problem. Want to be extremely powerful with no children? No problem. Want a long line of decedents that have been the rulers of an empire? No problem. Want to be moderately powerful with a decent sized empire and a heir? No problem.  

I would also like it if there are abilities and attributes that would be semi-randomly passed on to your child from previous generations of Channelers, that would really be awesome.

just to experess opinion, I'm not really one that supports the linage.  If this were a game about kings, I'd be behind it 100%.    But if channelers are going to have some way to have hairs, I'd want it to be more magical.   Something like a magical way to move all his or her personality and essense into another body.   It would be like a 'spell of return' usable to prevent yourself from dieing.   I think if were anything else it might take away from the over all spirit of the channelers.  So like... children?   the channelers should be too busy channeling magic to have kids.  (can you imagine if gandalf or the wizard of earthsea had a kid?)

Unless your'e talking hero linage... which I'm not sure why would matter since they don't really have anything to inherit that you as the channeler wouldn't just give them anyway, but that is ok.  

Npot necessarily. A particularly good archer or sowrdsman or mage could pass that skill onto their offspring.

Plus a truly epic game would need to last centuries or millenia. Heroic lineages could add serious flavor in that sort of context.

A decently epic sense of time also leaves all sorts of opportunities for a channeler to reproduce, and there's nothing obligatory about *raising* heirs yourself. Even if your channeler gestates and births the wee sprat personally, you can turn it over to a wetnurse on day 1 if you have a pressing need to get back out in the field. That sort of post-partum drama is pretty common in all sorts of genres, from frontier tales to Renaissance court intrigue stories.

In my greediest dream world, I'd like to see soemthing very like the option set Darkodinplus offered in reply 9. That would let players with landi's taste for eternal authority have their game while dynasty-makers could too.

If this is a civ style progression, then yes, an epic game lasts centuries or millenia.  Alexander the great conquered most of the known world well within a single lifetime.   Centuries aren't exactly a pre-requisit for world conquest.  If he hadn't discovered Persian women he'd probably have kept going.  I expect Elemental will be on a larger scale, but it's not a foregone conclusion.

I'm more interested in gameplay though, having a fake system where I'm simply replaced by a duplicate on death is... pointless.  I'd rather suspend disbelief than suspend a gag reflex.

An actual linneage system where the spawns of satan are running around being useful and grow their own strengths with whichever ending up replacing the current leader.  Much more tolerable, although it doesn't fit the whole concept of your godlike channeler that's been building strength since the beginning going up against the enemy that split his essence into multiple projects and has his godlike channeler anyway because his brat and his brats brat didn't split theirs.  Lineage for the channeler just isn't rational.

skills usually aren't inherited by themselves.  (I know nature vs. nurture and all, but training is training.  And a good archer father does not mean that the kid is going to be a good archer)  They'd have to train the new generation just as they would anybody else.  

totally!  I imagine channelers living for certuries, which is one reason I am not in total support of it.    In terms of heroes though, I'm not sure how that would work mechanically.   I mean i can think of a few ways like having a parent hero train the newer generations and all that, but everything that comes to my mind is pretty micro-management heavy and I do not think would benifit the game.   They say "keep it simple" is a key part of making a fun game, and in this case I think I'd almost rather have a "the hero lives for certuries because of the essence of the channeler that powers him" than having to breed quality hero bloodlines or something like that.

I'm sure whoever you're currently paying is doing a fine job as it is.

Hah!  I can't even pay for sex!