The main issue is to get an idea of the features and gameplay. Not that we don't hope and expect for great things from the 'close up' graphics engine later on.

Bear in mind many of the people here come from a background of 'Master of Magic' - a civ clone played in old fashioned VGA. (I seem to recall it was 320 x 200 - 256 colours). Likewise Dominions 3 is played mostly on the cloth map.

I just want to play ... please put me in Beta 0.

Would the beta have the unit customisation options ... ? That would probably be a major strategic issue.

Haha, that's a cool idea. If it means players/testers will get more involved with the actual development

I hope it works out, good luck!

It sounds very reasonable to roll out beta code chunks in major phases--I can't quickly think of a better way to keep volunteer feedback focused on the code chunk you want to hear from them about.

I also heartily endorse the idea of carrying on the GalCiv tradition of insanely good support for old/weak/scoffed-at systems. I had tons of fun with GC2 long before I ran it on hardware that actually met the formal sys reqs.

That means beta before June, right? Right? In this moment, the only game that could make me leave DoW2 would be this one (or Demigod if i could ever make it work ).

In any case... NEW PIC!!! YAY???!!! And i'm fine starting with only the cloth map. It'll be quite interesting and the best way to make sure it gets properly tested.

I'm down with that.  I agree, it should be fun from the cloth map.   In fact, I don't see what you couldn't do from the cloth map anyway, I mean its a TBS game!  besides, I think the cloth map looks like 'good graphics'.   Just because its 2D doesn't mean the graphics are bad.  It still in a high resolution and at 60 fps right?   That's good in my book.

 So... what is this I hear about Alphas?   Do we get to see something in action before June?  *leans closer*

Frogboy... you said in the demigod forums that you would make the beta for Elemental 'not fun'... I don't think just making it all on a cloth map rather than in full 3D is making it not fun.   I play "Master of Magic" for crying out load.   Surely its not going to be a step down from those graphics.

*added note: in case you didn't know.  Master of Magic is not 3D but is still VERY fun.  Better than most modern game's I'd say*

now this is a line i have wanted to hear from a game dev for many, many years
if we can join in on this beta 0 sign me right up! 

Yeah, forget the graphics! I mean, the beta testing is to figure out what is wrong with the gameplay anyways, right? If you get the gameplay figured out than you can always add graphics later!

(My comment might be slightly biased because my computer is almost as bad as a netbook!)

You have my full support, Brad.  Sounds like a great idea and a good way to flesh out problems with the cloth map concept.

Another idea for you- how about doing the converse as a beta?  For example, can you play the game without the cloth map?  Maybe that's not possible, but it would also help to flesh out the details and see how useful/good the detailed view it.

Oh, and thanks for the update.  It's been a while (and I'm sure that has to do with Demigod).

I'll play with ASCII graphics. The more eye candy the better, but I just want it on my hard drive.

So cloth map = no tactical combat I guess? Does that mean combatr is going to be very GalCiv 2 ish where things are going to play out pretty much the same whether you just let it happen or you give orders to units? I hope not, I want the tactical game to make a difference...

Thanks for the screenie!

If you would kill to get into the beta, you might as well pre-order now. Assuming of course that a life is worth more than$49.95 to you 

(pre-order gives you beta, in case you didn't know   )

Sounds like a solid idea. I like graphics but they aren't the main reason I play/buy games. So only having the game on the cloth map for a portion of the beta testing is a rather novel idea. 

I actually quite like the way Stardock does its betas. Other than that one GalCiv beta, that is.

I can understand why people have trouble grasping it though. If you followed along through the Demigod betas there was one update where the Torchbearer was "removed" and "replaced" with a General Demigod. If you're unfamiliar with Stardock's process (or early betas in general) you might assume that change is permanent and the Torchbearer is gone for good, rather than (presumably) just kicking back for a patch or two and having his shoes shined.

But I much prefer getting the next update to the beta and feeling like the game is actually taking shape, sometimes even in response to what the general public is saying about the game. I was in the alpha and then beta for another game that shall remain nameless and about the most significant change was it not crashing quite as often. Glaring issues with player abilities were ignored - and persist even post-release.

With Stardock there's a much greater feeling of "rejected" feedback being because the developer disagrees or thinks a different direction is genuinely better for the game. Not that they're just too damn lazy to implement something, or too arrogant to admit they're wrong.

If I could pay for Elemental now and get into the beta when it's ready, I'd do so. But being in another country I am at the mercy of the exchange rates. Without a solid start date I could end up paying $400 in local currency for the game.

I haven't yet decided if what you're creating is worth quite that much.

As for the idea of a "cloth map" approach? Why the heck not? I'd even suggest holding onto that idea and maybe reusing it at another point in the beta, if it's not too much a stress on the development timeline. It'd be interesting to compare the first "cloth beta" to one a month or two on?

Looking forward to the next Demigod beta and the inevitable Elemental beta.