So You’re Gay

Reply #1 July 19, 2004 11:39 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I agree I had a coworker that constantly went around and said she was gay. After awhile I just calmly walked up to her and said that it made no differance to us.

Reply #2 July 20, 2004 2:22 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

Let every one live like how he wants to.
At least we can make it easier.

Reply #3 July 20, 2004 3:35 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

My husband and I are bi... but where I work its best not to talk about it. But I feel that there is no reason why not to talk about it.. There are guys that talk to me about the girl they had last night and I look at it this way what is wrong with me doing the same. But for a woman to be gay that is every mans dream is to see two women make love but if its two men its gross I here. What so wrong with it if hetrosexuals can talk about there sex lifes why cant we. Just because we are different that makes us wrong most people who judge I believe are not happy with themselves that is why they judge.

Reply #4 July 20, 2004 4:07 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

No one should talk about it! Do what you want, enjoy what you do, no one else really cares unless its flaunted in their face, straight, gay or bi.

Reply #5 July 20, 2004 10:41 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

no one else really cares unless its flaunted in their face, straight, gay or bi.

Aye, there's the rub--being uncloseted.

What so wrong with it if hetrosexuals can talk about there sex lifes why cant we.

As long as you can face the ugly consequences, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

Reply #6 July 20, 2004 1:10 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

What so wrong with it if hetrosexuals can talk about there sex lifes why cant we

Because gays are outside the popular definition of "normality", they run against the grain, and can cause friction in some people's ideals. Even though these ideals are narrow minded, that's just the way it is. Deep down, we all know that gays are the same as everybody else, and that there is no reason for any friction to be caused at all. Gays just have different tastes.

But the popular mind is a stubborn thing. Most people are not in touch with their "heart", but rather in touch with their "conditioned mind". If gays choose to talk openly about their sex life in the same manner as heterosexuals, they can expect to get some flak from some people. As Steven said, "As long as you can face the ugly consequences, there's nothing wrong with it." To complain about it would be like complaining that the sky is blue.

But in my opinion, as humanity grows and matures spiritually, (talking in terms of decades and centuries), gays will become more and more accepted, and the principle of homosexuality will cause less friction, even in the conditioned mind. This is because as one grows up, (humanity on a larger scale), we become more in touch with our "heart", and with the things that really matter - compassion, understanding, love and truth.

We can percieve the "ugly consequences" which arise in today's society as the growing pains of humanity, (i.e. ignorance, self-righteousness, lack of understanding, misguided perceptions etc.) This is natural and to be expected. .

Gays: everything is okay! Use the consequences as 'soul-fodder' to grow strong, mature, and safe in your own individuality. There's a seaon and a time for every purpose under Heaven.

Reply #7 July 20, 2004 1:24 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Most people are not in touch with their "heart", but rather in touch with their "conditioned mind".

It must be a government conspiracy, I say that the government has been putting electronic implants in all babies since 1973. When activated, it makes them hate poofters.

Reply #8 July 20, 2004 2:15 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

But in my opinion, as humanity grows and matures spiritually, (talking in terms of decades and centuries), gays will become more and more accepted, and the principle of homosexuality will cause less friction, even in the conditioned mind

Man, I can sound like such a tosser. Someone call me a twat, please, so I can snap out of it.

But I wouldn't take any of it back, mind. I believe in it all. (What a wanker.)

Reply #9 July 20, 2004 2:54 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I used to have reservations on gays raising children, but thats gone and that was only problem I had with them.

Reply #10 July 20, 2004 8:06 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm a pastor at a Pentecostal Christian Church. I grew up, and still believe, that we were not created to be anything other than heterosexual. In fact, the first thing that God told Adam & Eve was "reproduce and have dominion over the earth" (Gen 1.28). If we aren't able to reproduce something through our sexual relationship, then, according to the Bible, it's not in God's plan. If you take Adam and Eve and put them together you get you and I. If you put Adam and Steve together, you get nothing. Now, before you all throw stones and try to get my address to send hate mail, keep reading my comment. While I do not condone, or agree with, the lifestyle of a homosexual, I REFUSE to treat them any different than someone who comes to my church. Far beyond my inability to pronounce judgment on an individual because of their sexual choices, I am called by God to love EVERYONE. And I am determined to do that. I get so very tired of people in the church treating other people like crap who choose to make choices that go against the Bible. I write these words to let anyone who reads this know that there are people out there, like me, that are followers of Jesus Christ and WILL NOT treat you any differently. I (and others who TRULY love and serve Jesus) might not agree with your choices but it won't affect the way that we treat you, have a friendship with you, and think of you as an individual.

Reply #11 July 21, 2004 1:12 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

God told Adam & Eve was "reproduce and have dominion over the earth"

I doubt this precept is in jeopardy since homosexuality is but a tiny segment of humanity.

 

Reply #12 July 21, 2004 7:28 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

Beesley, thanks for those views. It's good to hear a Christian speak so openly and honestly about the issue while retaining compassion and integrity.

I have a couple of questions to ask. If you choose to adhere to the Bible so passionately, then how does your model of righteous living fit in with Biblical verses such as Exodus 32:27-29, Deuteronomy 21.18-21, Numbers 15.32-36, Hosea 13:16?

Don't worry, I'm not trying to catch you out. I'm just curious. If we are to adhere to the lines of logic promulgated by yourself, regarding the Bible, then we what are we to make of those verses? I think they're in the same catagory as the classic Leviticus verses (18:22 & 20:13)

I'd be interested to hear your views.

Andy

Reply #13 July 21, 2004 3:06 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

AndyBaker,
Thanks for your questions. Blogs are new to me (in fact, my comment was the first time I've ever surfed on any blog sites or made a comment in any of them either) so please bear with me
The Scrip that you bring up from Ex, Deut, Num & even Hos are good examples of God's judgement on rebellion to His Word. In fact, one of references you cited (Num 15.32-6, I believe) is an example of a situation of God's judgement based on the individual's ignorance to God's law (although, he WAS responsible to know that law if he was included in the camp). To be honest, Andy, I'm not sure how exactly to answer your questions. Especially in the Old Testament, we find God ordaining swift and strong judgement on things that go against His commands. In the New Testament, we see Jesus coming on the scene bringing a whole different approach to "the Law." I think one of the most enlightening comments that Jesus made was when he told the religious people of the day that God created the Law because of the hard heart that they had against HIm in the first place (Mt 19.7-9). Anyway, when God enters earth, through Jesus, His words are words of love. He tells the people "Look, if you have never done anything wrong in your life, then you have a right to stone this woman for the wrong action that she committed." Needless to say, the woman walked away alive (after Jesus said, "You're free to go, but change your lifestyle of sin). In fact, Jesus didn't have anything good to say about trying to impose God's way of life on people by force (Mt 11.12). I'm not sure I understand why we seem to see two sides to God (like 2 sides of a coin) but I guess it looks like that sometime. However, a couple more things. In the New Testament we see a line of logic that lets people follow God because of their own desire to do so. I serve Jesus Christ with all of my heart and do my very best to live according to His principles. Not because the people in my church watch my every move. Not because I have a Pastor over me that I have to measure up to. I serve Jesus because of all He's done for me. I live out the promise of the greatest life available here on earth and of the life that is to come, as well (1 Tim 4.8). The second thing is this: there are definitely two sides of the coin - God's love and God's judgement. According to the Bible, we were created by God and for God. God gave us an instruction manual for this life He's given us - the Bible. When we choose to ignore the instruction manual and try and do things on our own, we reap the consequences for ignoring it's wisdom. What kind of an idiot would we be if we were to go up and grab a hold of an electric fence that has a sign that says: Danger, do not touch! A lot of times, we act like that with God's instruction manual for life and then get mad at Him as if it were His fault that our brother was killed in a car accident because he got drunk and then decided to get behind a wheel and drive home (hypothetical example). All I'm trying to say is that there are consequences for our actions. Ultimately, God will bring judgement on the earth to those who choose to try and create their own instruction manual for life (book of Revelation).
All that being said, I go back to my intitial comment to say that God is love. In fact, that's why Jesus came to earth. He died and rose from the dead because He loves us so much that He wanted us to have a way to be right with Him, even though we live a life full of mistakes. If that's the case, and I know and believe it is, then who am I to be the one to judge (not just in my words, but just as importantly, in my actions) the life of someone else?
Sorry for the length of this.
B.

Reply #14 July 21, 2004 4:55 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Thanks so much for sharing your views Beesley. Even though it got a bit out of context regarding this thread, (there's a religious thread all to its own), there's nowt wrong with flexibility and open views in any post. The original post is about gays, so I suppose it's no surprise that it attracts responses from religious folk.

I respect your views Beesley, and even though I couldn't find a concise answer in your post regarding those OT verses, you showed that our interpretation of the Bible, as with our interpretation of life, including the issue of homosexuality, is sometimes foggy. This is to be expected, I suppose, as we all see life like a "dim image in a mirror", as the Good Book says. In my opinion, we can be at peace with our own personal interpretations, keep an open mind, and be willing to learn and expand.

What if God brought Adam and Steve together for a reason? Even though they wouldn't produce much offspring, maybe Adam and Steve would produce good opportunities for us to learn about tolerance, compassion and open mindedness? A God of love would surely sponsor that.

Reply #15 July 21, 2004 5:26 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Welll well, been waiting for something like this.

As I am gay, and been through this, I can say a couple of things.

I honestly beleive that gay people are divided into two factions: People that are gay, and people that put being gay in front of being a person.

There really is a difference. Hell, the Whole Adam and Eve thing is so over and done with. The Bible, and all it's good times are on the way out. Science is proving that from the primordial ooze we came. Well, unless Adam and Eve were prehistoric people that didn't speak to god, and eat some apples and populate the earth, then the bible gets ruled out. Unless you are a blind faither, and that is cool.

The fact that gay people, men and woman, spent a lot of time not being themselves, they simply are making up for lost time. For the first while, that is cool. Be gay and proud. But there is a time when that attitude is best put away and time to live your life. I too went through my " F*#king listen to me, I like boys" phase, but that was after a prolonger period of being in the closet. Eventually, I grew out of it. Some people don't.

There are people, as I said, that bring it to people's faces. They shop exclusively at gay owned or gay supporting businesses. They will only go to the gay bars. The majority of friends will end up being gay, which really sucks if you live somewhere with a medium or small sized population. They religiously watch shows like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and Queer as Folk. * That latter being decent*
These people inflict themselves on people, like the poster that said they had a woman that was always saying she was gay. Once, maybe twice is enough! It is a aspect of a person, that is it. Sure, it's not totally normal, yet, but that is all it is. If we lived our lives defined on one outstanding trait, the world would be hell. Not that some people don't anyway, but you get the point.

As the old school religious thought slowly dies away, with less and less of a army of people following it, the gay issue won't become a issue at all. Hell, until the 80s, blacks weren't respected, and they were mistreated until they made it into the mainstream. Basketball. Rap music. Etc, etc. Now, it is happening to gays, and the gays are being swallowed by the mainstream, and it makes it easier for people to learn tolerance when gays are in your living room every night during Will and Grace.

Reply #16 July 22, 2004 12:16 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

What if God brought Adam and Steve together for a reason? Even though they wouldn't produce much offspring, maybe Adam and Steve would produce good opportunities for us to learn about tolerance, compassion and open mindedness? A God of love would surely sponsor that.

I like this: very touching.

Amitty, bravo! I'm with you in hoping the issue goes away.

Reply #17 July 22, 2004 7:19 AM from JoeUser Forums Top

The Bible, and all it's good times are on the way out

Don't speak too soon Amitty. As humanity matures and grows more spiritually aware, deeper interpretations of our classic sacred texts are arising. (See my post on the religious thread from about 3 weeks ago, 'Were Adam and Eve created in Heaven?')

Humanity is on a threshold of moving into a new spiritual awakening, in my opinion, and our tolerance and acceptance of gays will be a by-product of that.

Andy

Reply #18 July 22, 2004 12:44 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Steve and Andy, both, thank you.

Steve, unfortunately, I don't think it will "go away', but jsut be more mainstream. Like how rap music survived the mid 90's. But, I hope it does, like you.

Andy: Religion, in my opinion, is like the Flo-bee Hair cutting system: when it was first introduced, it had its target audience and served a purpose for what it was meant to do. Put aside the fact that millions upon millions have been killed in the name of religion, we get back to the ' tolerance' issue.
What right does the religious sector have to condemn ANYONE? Factual basis of the bible and it's teaches lead people to beleive one prospective. Hell, I didn't ask to be gay, and I'm sure I'm not a statisical anomoly. Why is it so hard for people to believe that a man wants to lay with a man? I don't hold a grudge against a religious person because it's something I don't beleive in. I don't automatically vilify people that think different or act different than myself.

So why do people that blindly believe in god have to do it. It's another example of " My Way or the Highway." Rewards are offered for those that tote the company line, and that is good for them. People need a reason to do things. But when people start telling me that I am wrong, that my love for another man is wrong, then the gloves come off.

Tolerance is not cool, because it's putting up with something. Acceptence is the answer.

Reply #19 July 22, 2004 12:59 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Perhaps warm tolerance will lead to at least cool acceptance.

Reply #20 July 22, 2004 1:02 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

let's hope so!

Reply #21 July 22, 2004 1:14 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

But when people start telling me that I am wrong,

... don't take it to heart, and let them get on with their own misguided attitudes. Other people don't have to hurt you if you don't let them. It's all in the mind.

Tolerance is not cool, because it's putting up with something. Acceptence is the answer.

I couldn't agree with you more dude. Nice one.

Andy

Reply #22 July 22, 2004 1:45 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't automatically vilify people that think different or act different than myself. So why do people that blindly believe in god have to do it. It's another example of " My Way or the Highway."

Here's the thing... God's way is the only way. It sounds like you don't believe in God, Amitty. Of course He wants us to love each other. However, He would want us to help eachother through sinful natures as well. We're all sinners, and we all need help.
If you had a friend with a drug problem, and you could see they were on the path of death and destruction, you would call them out on that. The Bible says, "The wages of sin is death." When I see a brother or sister on the path to Hell, I want to help them. I want to tell them of a God and Saviour who is loving and forgiving and who transforms our lives and this world.

Reply #23 July 22, 2004 1:59 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

How do you know god is real? Because a book told you? Because you believe it in your heart?

So, being a sinner, you would like? Suggest a ex-gay camp, tell me to take christ into my heart? You knowwhat would help..just accpeting that people do things, that people are a certain way. Have you never done something against god's will? That is what I would like to know...even unpure thoughts require the confessional.
Shouldi try to embrace the light?
I have had a tough life, there are others that have had it tougher. What has God done for them? When people tell others to 'embrace god', because he will be their saviour. When God doesn't show up, it's because ' God is letting people figure it out.' How does that juxtiposition work? If it's good, it's god? if it's bad, it's evil old human nature? Satan? Osama?

Have you talked to God? Has he done something for you? Are you tight with the big guy? Do you ahve some life experiences that would give me reason to question myself? If you do, I would love to hear them.

Or are you blindly putting faith in something that might not be?

Like I said earlier, everyone has to have something to beleive in.

Sorry Steve for all the religious retoric in your article

Reply #24 July 22, 2004 2:17 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Have you talked to God? Has he done something for you? Are you tight with the big guy? Do you ahve some life experiences that would give me reason to question myself? If you do, I would love to hear them. Or are you blindly putting faith in something that might not be?

"Here's the thing," as SanctusBelle so self-righteously put it... "God's Way is the Only Way." Posing questions like yours that to a person of a monotheistic faith is like trying to convince a brick wall it's a bowl of Jell-O. Exhausting, aggravating, and utterly pointless. The entire purpose of the idea of blind faith as spewed forth by the major religious leaders of the world is to shape the masses into something easily molded, and easily led. I'm sure any "faithful" person could easily respond "Yes," to any of the questions above, and qualify their answer with astonishing amounts of religious rhetoric. "Yes, I speak to God on a daily basis. Yes, he's given me the knowledge that I am secure in His Love. Yes, I am close to My Lord. Yes, the everlasting Love that He offers is enough reason for you to question yourself." And, of course, "No, God is the One, and the only One. There is no other, and God is eternal in his existence. There is no question of Him 'not being.'" See how easy that was? It's impossible to make a faithful person question him/herself because true faith is considered a lack of questioning beliefs. Someone like Sanctus is just as dangerous as someone like Osama or Dubya (forgive me, Godwin), in that they have the full convinction of years and years of misled "faith" guiding their decisions.

I am a Buddhist. I have faith in the greater good of mankind. I have faith that one should live their lives to the fullest, and should only do that which is required to make others around you happy. I have faith that only by following the Eightfold Path can one attain enlightenment and self-actualization. Yet I don't go around forcing others to become Buddhists in order to make them happy. Nor do I go around preaching Buddhist precepts or teachings because I'm trying to "save" anyone. The faith I have is in myself and in the idea that people should be free to live as they please as long as doing so does not cause mental, physical, or emotional harm to others. Most importantly, I have faith that everything I know, everything I believe, is most likely WRONG, and that I should spend my life attempting to find out why. That is the difference between my faith and the blind faith of people like SanctusBelle.

And yeah, sorry for the religious rhetoric too. =/

Reply #25 July 22, 2004 2:20 PM from JoeUser Forums Top

Eikonoklasmo, you are my new hero for hte day