Facial recognition software and permission to use it

By on June 20, 2015 7:15:10 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

DrJBHL

Join Date 04/2002
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FRT (facial recognition technology) used to be slow and clumsy. Machines, slower. Not so anymore, especially when augmented by Cloud resources.

So, the National Telecommunications and Information Administration put together businesses and consumer groups to avoid legislation, which could be dicey. Those talks have fallen apart over “informing consumers and obtaining permission to use” this FRT.

“The talks have covered a range of issues dealing with how companies store, use and share information they've gathered by using facial recognition, whether from photographs such as on social media sites, or from images captured by security cameras.” – infopackets

Well, both sides have viable points here, and I’m not advocating one or the other. A good starting point in understanding some of the issues can be found here. The consumer advocate groups (nine in number: American Civil Liberties Union; Center for Democracy & Technology; Center for Digital Democracy; Alvaro M. Bedoya, the executive director of the Center on Privacy & Technology at Georgetown University Law Center; Consumer Action; Consumer Federation of America; Consumer Watchdog; Common Sense Media; and Electronic Frontier Foundation) have withdrawn from talks conducted over the past 16 months.

The make or break appears to be explicit permission:

“[but] the privacy advocates said they were giving up on talks because they could not achieve what they consider minimum rights for consumers — the idea that companies should seek and obtain permission before employing face recognition to identify individual people on the street.

“At a base minimum, people should be able to walk down a public street without fear that companies they’ve never heard of are tracking their every movement — and identifying them by name — using facial recognition technology,” the privacy and consumer groups said in a statement. “Unfortunately, we have been unable to obtain agreement even with that basic, specific premise.” – NYT

One industry spokesperson stated that they would proceed to work out a policy with or without the consumer protection groups. Ho hum. The current administration has already come down on the side of more protection for the public and consumers regarding privacy issues (while not securing vital info on millions of Federal gov’t. workers…lol). Also, Texas and Illinois have passed state laws requiring companies to notify people and obtain their permission before taking facial scans or sharing their biometric information.

“Mr. Bedoya said consumer advocates were troubled by the possibility that the federally convened face recognition discussions could end up endorsing an industry code of conduct that undermined those state laws.

“The message sent is clear,” he said in an email. “If you are a consumer, and you want better privacy laws, you should call your state legislator and head to your state capitol. Just don’t come to Washington, D.C.” –ibid

As we all become naught more than commodities and privacy? Puhleeeze.

Sources:

https://www.infopackets.com/news/9610/facial-recognition-should-permission-be-required

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/consumer-groups-back-out-of-federal-talks-on-face-recognition/

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June 20, 2015 8:00:29 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

HUM

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June 20, 2015 9:22:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

We have always been 'commodities.'  More often than not, when it comes to 'commercial' enterprises, "I and Thou" is replaced by "I and It."  Wish it weren't so. 

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June 20, 2015 10:25:53 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I am totally opposed to the use of Facial Recognition technology both commercially and by some government agencies.

In the first instance, a Brisbane department store was/is trallling it and my mother was snapped while entering and visiting various areas within the store.  Now some may think no harm, no foul, but her email account was bombarded by advertising related to items she may or may not have looked at.... like for months on end. Her Facebook account was also targetted.

Luckily for her she had a change of name and country, so when she simply stopped using those accounts and moved on under her new name, she sort of disappeared and the crap stopped.  Thing s, it mightn't be so simple for everyone.  To change as many things relating to one's identity might not be so simple.  While a change of name through marriage is simple enough for those women willing/ready to take that step [and aren't already married], but changing country is not so easy for most.  And given my own experience with Facebook, its refusal to take no for a answer, FRT is not something you want it or advertising agencies to have access to.

In the second instance, I'd worry about government and law enforcement playing 'musical faces'.  That's where they put your face or somebody elses on a different body and place you or somebody else at the scene of a crime when you/they were in fact someplace else [but can't prove it]... because law enforcement and/or government cameras would never lie, do they.

Okay, so who nicked my tinfoil hat?

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June 20, 2015 11:36:27 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,

We have always been 'commodities.'  More often than not, when it comes to 'commercial' enterprises, "I and Thou" is replaced by "I and It."  Wish it weren't so. 

A certain Rabbanit has been reading Buber?

 

Quoting starkers,

Now some may think no harm, no foul, but her email account was bombarded by advertising related to items she may or may not have looked at.... like for months on end. Her Facebook account was also targetted.

Exactly one part of it...and those databases are sold to "affiliates" and their "affiliates" as well.

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June 20, 2015 12:51:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Scary. I'm sure one could employ methods to fool facial recognition (disguise, makeup, plasic surgery in extreme case). But as it is now, just by walking through lower manhattan, NYPD cameras see your face and could check the video images against a FR database to know if you are in the neighborhood.

Great anti-terror tool. Chilling potential for government abuse.

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June 20, 2015 1:13:57 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Quoting starkers,
reply 3

Now some may think no harm, no foul, but her email account was bombarded by advertising related to items she may or may not have looked at.... like for months on end. Her Facebook account was also targetted.

Exactly one part of it...and those databases are sold to "affiliates" and their "affiliates" as well.

Apparently the chain that trialled FRT in one of its Brisbane stores has installed the tech many of its other stores across the country, meaning that most of its customers will be targeted with ads from itself, partners and any others connected to the scam... and yes, I call it a scam because I think it is too far removed from legit to be anything else. 

Advertising execs and their associates are as bad as fechen bankers, if not worse.... they're scum of the Earth and thrice as slimy.  It's not enough that they're in your face with TV, newspaper and magazine ads, roadside billboards and ads on the backs, sides and tops of buses and taxis... just about anything that fechen moves and doesn't, the bastards are constantly finding/inventing new ways to force crap down our throats, like it or not. 

I use ad blockers when on the internet to avoid ads, yet it never ceases to amaze me how some advertisers will go to extreme lengths to bypass these measures to throw up the same fechen ads on the same sites.  Frankly, and I'm not normally a violent person, but I'm so damned sick and tired of ads being forced on to me, and if a bloke walked up and introduced himself as an advertising exec who did that sort of thing, I'd likely knock out a few of his teeth with a rather forceful knee up into his gonads...if you get my meaning.

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June 20, 2015 1:38:48 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting davrovana,

Great anti-terror tool. Chilling potential for government abuse.

Okay, the anti-terror thing is great, if the threat [on home soils] were as great as governments make it out to be.

The chilling reality... hence the abuse, is that the terror threat is too often over-stated/exaggerated.  This is done to make us scared and instill fear in our hearts so that we will agree to gov't spending on shit we'd otherwise disagree with.... spending that is not necessarily in our best interests, such as facial recognition tech that could place an 'elsewhere' us at the scene of a crime or terrorist attack.

Recent history has proven that terror attacks on home soils are possible, we recently had such an incident here in Australia, so I'm not playing down the seriousness of the threat potential.  However, given some recent experiences/information, I have to question just how much bullshit government attaches to this threat in order to drive its own agenda[s].

Yeah, I know, I'm bordering on the lunatic in need of a tinfoil hat, but government has broken my trust more than once, and I'm constantly reading/hearing about governments/politicians world-wide doing it pretty much to everyone else, so it's not like they've earned the trust or respect of anyone.  Right?

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June 20, 2015 2:07:18 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I guess I'll have to start walking around with my paper bag over my head.  Ironically I used to only get asked to wear it in the bedroom. 

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June 20, 2015 2:37:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I can just imagine the first day such intrusive designs get hooked up to your search entries in google.

HALF PRICE ON BLACK MIDGET PORN FROM AUSTRALIA THIS WEEKEND!

"That's not mine..."

NEW BURNER MODELS NOW ON SALE! KEEP YOUR WIFE OUT OF THE LOOP EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE!

"Honey I swear..."

TOP 10 LISTS OF 'HOW TO MURDER YOUR WIFE' mystery books!

"Totally innocent!"

BECAUSE YOU 'SPEND A LOT OF TIME AROUND PARKS' HERE ARE SOME 'PICTURES OF OTHER PEOPLE'S KIDS'

"Oh come on..."

YOU HAVE A TENDENCY TO IGNORE PLEADS OF MERCY FROM THOSE LESS FORTUNATE AND YOU ONCE SEARCHED FOR THE JAIL TIME OF BEATING UP A HOMELESS PERSON

"It's not even trying to sell me anything anymore..."

YOUR SINS ARE TERRIBLE AND IT IS RIGHT THAT YOU SHOULD SUFFER

"Just... what?"

IT APPEARS THAT YOUR 'WIFE' HAS 'LEFT YOU'. 

"You ruined my life, you damn... thing!"

 

Thus began the first A.I wars.

 

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June 20, 2015 10:57:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

1984 was 31 years ago.

Be reasonable....we had a pretty good run....

 

I've given up caring.  All of this is inevitable and no amount of running around like headless chooks is going to make a difference.  [except headless chooks won't be recognized].

 

It's way beyond time that we simply get a forehead bar-code tattoo when we're born.  It'd put an end to all concepts of panic and effrontery....

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June 21, 2015 12:58:31 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

All of this is inevitable and no amount of running around like headless chooks is going to make a difference. [except headless chooks won't be recognized].

Of course it is inevitable!   Because FRT is a 'good idea' and we're not going to be told if/when it is in use.  Just like an alien anal probe, you only find out about it when the feel of cold steel hits Uranus.

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June 21, 2015 5:46:59 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

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June 21, 2015 8:38:02 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Right on Seth.

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June 21, 2015 9:41:11 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin, 1775.

Doesn't matter diddly-squat.

It's not like Joe Public has a choice.

"He who thinks he is in total control of his destiny/liberty is simply deluded." Jafo, 2015....

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June 21, 2015 11:20:51 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,

It's not like Joe Public has a choice.

There we disagree. If proper legislation fails, and there's no initiative to fix it, civil disobedience has changed a good deal of what was once thought "unchangeable".

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June 21, 2015 1:31:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,


Quoting Jafo,

It's not like Joe Public has a choice.



There we disagree. If proper legislation fails, and there's no initiative to fix it, civil disobedience has changed a good deal of what was once thought "unchangeable".

 

While there is a great deal of truth in this.  Also consider how the government uses web sites, publicly, to spin truth.  One example I came across a few years ago still sticks in my mind.  One of the big meets of the financial/corporate powers to set up another 'free trade' contract (treaty) met on the west coast, Seattle?  Vancouver?  I forget.  Many grass roots groups met to protest that regular people, town mayors, and others were excluded from even observing the proceedings - no less having a seat at the table.  (When such massive and influential decisions are made, private does equal secret.)  The 'zone' of protection (no protests) was several blocks deep.  Given the size of the gathering, and the protestors, a few violent types were all but impossible to exclude.  What I saw in the various recordings taken by protestors and alternative media was very different from what the mass media showed, and what the FBI website shows.  I am sure 'both' sides did some spinning.  What galls me is the FBI website declares all the protestors as violent police hating fringe elements.  What is so absurd is, among other things this little tidbit.  A chapter of the AFL-CIO (Seattle?) participated in the protest.  When I saw the footage of this chapter it was like several hundred Archie Bunkers! We may have put off 1984's big brother for three decades, but the tech is here now, enhanced by cyber bots, and drones smaller than house flies... welcome to the brave new world of the Plutarch-oligopoly.  Big Brother managing, very well, to make civil disobedience irrelevant. 

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June 21, 2015 7:29:35 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,

Big Brother managing, very well, to make civil disobedience irrelevant.

Yes, and with FRT and other modern tech at its disposal, it knows who, when... and where to crush it.

Civil disobedience these days is something for the media to latch onto... and is relevant to government by showing the world "how powerful we are" when said media airs the disruption/protest being broken up on TV.

Sadly, government by the people for the people no longer exists... and hasn't done for a long, long while.  Nowadays it's more like government for self-serving politicians by self serving politicians.... and that's pretty much true, regardless of what country you're from.  So no, this is not a political statement, but more an observation of the sad world we live in.

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June 21, 2015 9:43:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,

...civil disobedience has changed a good deal of what was once thought "unchangeable".

Bravo.

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June 22, 2015 12:31:04 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

I can sabotage it. One look at my mug and boom, all gone. Lol

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June 22, 2015 11:02:06 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting Uvah,

I can sabotage it. One look at my mug and boom, all gone. Lol

So that's why you go through so many frying pans.  Looking into a mirror would bring you 7 years bad luck each time... looking into a frying pan just creates a lot of shrapnel.

Hehe, well Medusa's got nothing on you, then.

With regard to the facial recognition technology, hopefully somebody will come up with a wearable device that fechs it up.... like some kind of beam that blinds the camera when wearers enter stores, etc..... as well as wiping the database of their info for good measure.

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June 23, 2015 6:57:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Uvah,

I can sabotage it. One look at my mug and boom, all gone. Lol

 

Uval, so you admit its all your fault?  

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June 23, 2015 7:14:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting starkers,


Quoting Uvah,

I can sabotage it. One look at my mug and boom, all gone. Lol



So that's why you go through so many frying pans.  Looking into a mirror would bring you 7 years bad luck each time... looking into a frying pan just creates a lot of shrapnel.

Hehe, well Medusa's got nothing on you, then.

With regard to the facial recognition technology, hopefully somebody will come up with a wearable device that fechs it up.... like some kind of beam that blinds the camera when wearers enter stores, etc..... as well as wiping the database of their info for good measure.

or a common mask that covers the face(perhaps of the current 'highest' politician in the country(this is so that the said politican gets the problems they deserve)), just leaving the clothes, body shape, gender and hair/skin colours as clues toward the actual person behind the mask

harpo, the ghost NON-subscriber

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June 23, 2015 7:39:12 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Costa Rica is looking better every day.

That is all I need. Some crap like Minority Report bombing me with ads everywhere I go. 

I say we have live tracking of our politicians and bureaucrats first. You know, proof of concept. Bet that will stop this in its awful track! 

 

 

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June 24, 2015 12:49:32 AM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

Quoting harpo99999,

or a common mask that covers the face(perhaps of the current 'highest' politician in the country(this is so that the said politican gets the problems they deserve)), just leaving the clothes, body shape, gender and hair/skin colours as clues toward the actual person behind the mask

Yeah, I can see people getting around in Tony Abbott masks... though if they include the ears, wind resistance is gonna slow 'em down a hell of alot.  Hopefully, budgie smugglers aren't a prerequisite to wearing said masks.... nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants to see me in those.

On another note, several prominent politicians reckon that no poliies should have to pay income tax.... cos none of 'em have ever done an honest day's work in their lives.

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June 24, 2015 1:04:33 PM from WinCustomize Forums WinCustomize Forums

@ElanaAhova

 

I would if I could but I can't so I won't. Just don't tel nobody. Especially you know who. ^^

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