Sorcerer King feedback responses from Dev

By on February 22, 2015 1:34:03 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Re feedback:

1. Doomsday clock speed. I was thinking of hooking the Magic slider at the game setup to this. You would get less magic from the shards but the SK would get a less doomsday for breaking one. This would allow the player to have a great deal more say over the pacing of doomsday.

2. Empire building. This is a really good discussion because really, that is the crux of the argument for the game: Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes you're putting together? I.e. where should the focus be.

I don't think there's a "right" answer here other than to say that one direction will satisfy more people than others. I also think that there is a lot of wiggle room where more can be added to one without diluting the focus of the other.

For instance, I have been adding more types of administrators to the game as time has gone on. These administrators could be further enhanced to allow for more differentiation in the city.

Similarly, I'd like to see more magical spells that affect cities put into the game. I don't think I'd want to get into the farmer/worker/elvis scenario but instead would prefer to see the player be able to spend magic to enhance their city based on what tiles they have. 

Nevertheless, I do feel like there is room for expansion on the cities themselves but I suspect that would have to wait until post release where we can see the game is going to go.

3. Expansions. We have 3 expansions for this game planned over the next 3 years or so. What goes into them will be up to you guys. I can tell you that Sorcerer King is the beginning of a series and not the end of one.

4. Early game setup. One of the things I'd be interested in hearing from you guys on are "advanced setup" options for hard core players. Since I write the code that woul dhandle this, I would be delighted to put in interesting things here. So based on your hours in the game, what sorts of things would you want (besides Doomsday adjustments which I plan to handle through the magic slider).

5. Re Crafting vs. Finding. There seems to be a slight preference that works like this:

I should be able to craft up to great things. But AMAZING things should only be findable and rare. Would this represent your view?

-brad

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February 22, 2015 1:59:25 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1. Doomsday clock speed. I was thinking of hooking the Magic slider at the game setup to this. You would get less magic from the shards but the SK would get a less doomsday for breaking one. This would allow the player to have a great deal more say over the pacing of doomsday.

Personally I think this is an awful idea. You want magic to be engaging and fun and powerful, but if you tie the doomsday clock to it I'll probably never play magic-heavy games. Why is making the game "less fun" an option? I'm perfectly fine with it being a stand-alone slider that affects my magic and SK's magical power. That way it's a worldbuilding/lore option, not a difficulty setting.

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February 22, 2015 2:27:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

N/A

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February 22, 2015 2:35:04 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

1.  This sounds like a good trade-off.  I've been playing as Tinkerer & don't see enough opportunities to reverse Doomsday counter.

2.  Choices are good.  With the minor factions giving pretty good units I don't feel the need to put cities on every corner & can concentrate on saving the shards.

3.  Great news!

4.  Don't know if I'm hardcore, oldcore maybe.  I'll have to think about this one.  But again, choices are what make a game great!

5.  Adding Enchanting to crafting was a great step.  Now make more items available via crafting.  I totally agree that the best of the best should only be findable & very rare.

You need to fix the crafting inventory.  How about auto-stacking items.  Into a long game & I have hundreds of items that scroll on forever. 

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February 22, 2015 3:41:26 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting ,

2. Empire building. This is a really good discussion because really, that is the crux of the argument for the game: Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes you're putting together? I.e. where should the focus be.

4. Early game setup. One of the things I'd be interested in hearing from you guys on are "advanced setup" options for hard core players. Since I write the code that would handle this, I would be delighted to put in interesting things here. So based on your hours in the game, what sorts of things would you want (besides Doomsday adjustments which I plan to handle through the magic slider).


2. I've been meaning to bring this up. To me, the hero adds more flavor to game variety than the sovereign, who after a while, seems to just be in the background, dealing out spells.

 

On another note, it would seem to make sense, that the larger your empire, the greater your ability to defeat the SK. Currently it's quite easy to defeat the SK with resources from a single city/ But I'm guessing the game would have to be completely revamped to change it to an empire builder -  but then that might add fuel to the fire of people who don't see much difference between LH and SK.

4. As it stands, the Sovereign customization is not that great. It's just taking traits and starting heros from one sovereign and putting them on another. It kind of reminds me of the randomize personalities feature in Civ 4.

I would like to see many more options/abilities/heros/spell book for creating a custom sovereign.

 

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February 22, 2015 3:50:01 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,


1. Doomsday clock speed. I was thinking of hooking the Magic slider at the game setup to this. You would get less magic from the shards but the SK would get a less doomsday for breaking one. This would allow the player to have a great deal more say over the pacing of doomsday.



Personally I think this is an awful idea. You want magic to be engaging and fun and powerful, but if you tie the doomsday clock to it I'll probably never play magic-heavy games. Why is making the game "less fun" an option? I'm perfectly fine with it being a stand-alone slider that affects my magic and SK's magical power. That way it's a worldbuilding/lore option, not a difficulty setting.

 

Completely agree. 

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February 22, 2015 4:04:46 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

1. Doomsday clock speed.

Your description is a bit lacking so not sure exactly what you’re thinking. I have always played on normal magic so not sure what the slider even does.   My baseline => played dozens of games over ~300 hours mostly on Insane or Insane-1 difficulty.  I have never come close to maxing out the doomsday counter, highest it has gotten is about ¾ of the way up.  The existing spell to lower the counter is available is it gets too high.   If I had a way of adjusting the Doomsday clock speed I would tend to increase it.  A big part of the games premise is supposed to be a “race” of you against the clock. Currently it just doesn’t feel that way.  If what you’re suggesting would help that, I’d be for it

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February 22, 2015 4:06:20 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

2. Empire building.  ….  Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes ..

Why can’t it be both?   You need to build a strong empire to put together a strong party of heroes.

I like the way you can strategically building your empire defensively to protect shards and hold back the SK’s forces.   

2b) …  more types of administrators to the game as time has gone on...   

       Love the idea.

 

2c)  … more magical spells that affect cities put into the game..

Yes, I would like that.   BUT, and to me it is a big but, you need to work on essence distribution.  Way too often the only city with essence is your starting city and it usually has A LOT!   What’s needed is more settlement sites with essence and a realistic cap on the amount of it.  

Thoughts:

 a) Powerful specialty spells that may be restricted to one/empire and one per settlement, which providing a unique ability/skill building and/or unit.

  - Arches trained here get to equip bows.

  - mages  get trained here get extra spell or can equip a staff

 - Clerics trained here get can cast heal twice/turn

 -  redirect a resource to this settlement.  >Currently resources go to the closest city, this spell might allow “select clay pit building to this settlement”

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February 22, 2015 4:11:20 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

3) Expansion

SUPPER happy to hear!

Great ideas from

Different Sorcerer Kings?

 By on January 21, 2015 12:31:26 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

There are several different sovereigns to choose from, but have you considered having different ENEMY sorcerer kings to choose from?  (You would still only play against a single SK per game, but just like your sovereign he could be a different class).   

 

It would be a neat avenue for replay-ability to be able to play against several enemy SK's that behave very differently and have different lieutenants.  Some ideas:

-Vanilla SK  

-Inquisitor SK - spreads his own brand of twisted religion from a benevolent facade.  Loves to cut deals with the player.  Converts neutral units to his side.  Builds monuments to himself after destroying shards, which increase his power.  The player can destroy the monuments, which would be well defended.  Controls religious zealots and holy units.  

-Devourer SK - He is legion.  Personally stomps around the map, killing and absorbing everything in his path.  Becomes larger and more powerful with each enemy he dispatches.  Killing him on the main map sets him back a little, but he respawns at his fortress.  Will come to your cities and give you the choice to bribe him with higher doomsday counter or be eaten.  Eats shards, which give him a big power boost.  

-Necromancer SK - increasing necromatic power as the doomsday counter goes up. Eventually, any of your units that die will rise in place as undead to fight against you.  Zombie apocalypse, medieval fantasy style. 

-Demonologist SK - destroys a shard and opens a portal to hell in its place, summoning demons for him every few turns.  The more portals that are open, the more powerful the demons coming through.

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February 22, 2015 6:18:23 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


2. Empire building. This is a really good discussion because really, that is the crux of the argument for the game: Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes you're putting together? I.e. where should the focus be.

I'd like it to be closer to this little-but-very-clever "There is only Power" game, so make it party-focused, please. You could always make some kind of empire-focused expansion set later.

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February 22, 2015 8:41:33 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Hi guys.  Thanks for the feedback so far!

How would you guys like to see the magic slider work then?

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February 22, 2015 9:01:41 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Hi guys.  Thanks for the feedback so far!

How would you guys like to see the magic slider work then?

IMO, a magic slider should only have the effect of increasing or decreasing the number of turns it takes to learn a spell.

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February 23, 2015 1:05:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1. Not a fan of having the magic slider affect doomsday and magic. Same reasoning as other posters above.

2. From a thematic feel, I'd prefer it to not be about the empire. IMO, the game goes back to a regular 4x once you focus on the empire. Also, I feel less like the hero fighting against all odds when my empire's bigger than the SK's. You lose that tension once you have a globe-spanning empire that can always handle whatever the SK throws at you.

5. I'm torn on this one...On one hand, having super-powered items being findable only will keep them feeling unique and special. However, relying on luck to get the perfect weapon or armor is kinda sucky. Since there are several crafting ingredients that are very rare, like radiant diamonds, it's not too bad to make the best items being craftable. In my latest tinkerer game, I managed to get all the legendary recipes. However, I only ever found 2 radiant diamonds in the entire game. Since all the legendary recipes that relied on them, I really had to sit and sweat it out for a bit thinking about which item to craft.

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February 23, 2015 5:14:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

First post on the forums so Hello to Everyone

1.Doomsday clock speed is a good idea but i don't think it should be hooked to magic slider.Make them independent.

 

2.I think they should be almost equal with heroes given a bit more flavour.As for empire building i think we need more hard choices.For example each time you level a city besides the tile bonus you should be  presented with a choice of 2 buildings with different purposes.Choosing one makes the other option impossible to get.

 

3.-For expansions as mentioned by other people more SK to choose before the start of each game.

-More races to choose.Right now we only have 1 race(Humans ?-i am not very good with the lore of the series).Maybe add elves and dwarves(classic choices) with each race having not only different unit models but some changes in traits and stats.For example elves more movement points,bonus in forests,better archers.Dwarves more hitpoints,less cost in buildings,and maybe better defense.

 

-Minor races should be a hard choice.If you ally with them and help them with a quest you get to choose 1 of 2 heroes and they fight with the sorcerer king armies close to their borders.If you do not help them and fight them instead you get no heroes but you get to choose one of 3 very powerful artifacts when you conquer them,plus one more city and the ability to produce their units.Maybe add a -+ bonus to doomsday counter to each option also.

 

-Random Events.Start of the week like HOMM.Random eclipse that doubles all spell cost,chaos storm that doubles all chaos spells as 2 easy examples.

 

-More buildings that you find in map.Observatory that shows you a part of the map,witch hut that gives you a free level in your hero only once if you pay a price in gold and then vanishes.Some caves that you can hire monsters,or guilds that you can buy thieves or spells,artifacts.

 

-More variety of wandering monsters,include chimera,unicorns,fantasy lore has so many options.

 

-More items to craft and find.Maybe add set items,like sword and shield of(insert name here) which gives +2 defense and +1 movement when both equipped.

 

-Better city sieges.As mentioned in other post city sieges are a bit underwhelming right now.Maybe a bigger battlefield,with a choke point that is very crucial for defenders?I am not 100% sure what to add but right now its not as good as the rest of the game.

 

4.Early setup options.Wandering monsters strength,doomsday clock speed,random events on/off and rate in which they occur.Quest rate also and how difficult they are.

 

5.Crafting is a big part but you should be able to find some unique items that can't be crafted in some chests or quests that end in a cave or a dungeon with a 2-phase battle against a large army(2nd phase contains a boss like character).Both should have their unique items and should be equally strong.One request for enchanting is ingredients of the same type stacking.Right now we have too many ingredients of the same type and it is a bit overwhelming in numbers after a while.

 

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February 23, 2015 6:30:29 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

 

1)Also not a fan of having doomsday affect magic. 

Doomsday to me right now seems trivial and it's not something I'm scared of at all.

 

2) While I think this game is ultimately about building your stack of doom, I do think at a minimum, we need the ability to tech up our units, with maybe a 3rd tier of unit for the classes specialization that is better trained, not necessarily better armed.

 

I also think we need some endgame dungeons. 

 

3) I hope so.  Sorcerer King to me is the game where you guys finally hit your stride on the Elemental series, I want more.  It's the main reason I haven't played GalCiv 3 nearly as much as I expected (I really think I enjoy SK more)

One thing I'd like to see is being able to play as the minor factions.   I think SK will benefit from a "more toys in the toybox" approach, moreso than other games, do to its nature. 

 

4) Advanced rules could handle things like SK aggression, maybe storyline twists.  I really don't have a huge opinion here because I can't think of anything really good. 

 

5) Agreed.   It's frustrating when you get something your class can't use though.

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February 23, 2015 9:46:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


2. Empire building. This is a really good discussion because really, that is the crux of the argument for the game: Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes you're putting together? I.e. where should the focus be.

I strongly feel that the focus should be on the champions. SK will not be as good an empire builder as LH or other traditonal 4Xs like Endless Legend. It will also not be as good a tactical combat 4x as AoW or others that focus on that aspect. So where is the niche of this game? To me, it's in the narrative. The story of the heroic underdog fighting against the seemingly all-powerful evil force. SK has the potential to be the first strategic game I know of to really lean into the classic fantasy trope of a small group of heroes fighting against an omnipresent evil which has long dominated fantasy RPG and literature. I think getting heroes from the minor factions is a great step in this direction. It's more fun to have a group of 5 champions then a group of 15 horsemen. I would love to see this game really emphasize and expand the RPG elements already in the game.

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February 23, 2015 10:01:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


4. Early game setup. One of the things I'd be interested in hearing from you guys on are "advanced setup" options for hard core players. Since I write the code that woul dhandle this, I would be delighted to put in interesting things here. So based on your hours in the game, what sorts of things would you want (besides Doomsday adjustments which I plan to handle through the magic slider).

Bandits and SK on separate difficulty sliders

Frequency of quest huts

Frequency of statues

Frequency of minor factions

Durability of shards

 

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February 23, 2015 12:45:19 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Alstein,

Doomsday to me right now seems trivial and it's not something I'm scared of at all.

Seems like a pretty common observation.  hence the need to do something if doomsday is to really mean anything.  This can be fixed without a connection to the magic slider but what is the harm?  Magic slider all the way up = more magic points for me, more doomsday pts.  per shard and per turn count.   If the slider is mot going to do something like this, then what should it do?  Increase lore/turn, more spells available, additional spell book?

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February 23, 2015 12:46:50 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Alstein,

I also think we need some endgame dungeons.

 

Yes, V hard with legendary items in them

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February 23, 2015 12:55:42 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

3) or 4)..

Allow the SK to get heroes from minor factions when allied.  Hero on hero action

 

Oh and before i forget again,  just wanted to say thank for asking these kind of question

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February 23, 2015 2:05:38 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

"1. Doomsday clock speed. I was thinking of hooking the Magic slider at the game setup to this. You would get less magic from the shards but the SK would get a less doomsday for breaking one. This would allow the player to have a great deal more say over the pacing of doomsday."

I'd rather see this tied to difficulty but that depends on the goal of difficulty and the magic slider. I see difficulty as a way making the game feel easier by monsters having less hitpoints and the SK getting threatened less quickly. I couldn't certainly see magic becoming more potent and that changing the doomcounter. It would be another way to throttle or increase the speed of the game. A lot of the game ratches up based on when you get spells and skills.

By the way, I've played at least 10 games and I still get lore and (already forgot the name) for skills. I'd rather it just be magic but I also wish the skill counter was not tied to mana and magic research. 


"2. Empire building. This is a really good discussion because really, that is the crux of the argument for the game: Is the game about your EMPIRE or about the Party of heroes you're putting together? I.e. where should the focus be."

You've personally talked about the game being about creating the biggest doomstack and kicking the SK's butt. I'd rather the game be about gathering allies and taking down the bigbad. Truth be told, I've found building cities up to be a rather tedious process and simple. There's really no real advantage to building a city up. You can get a boatload of logistics with one city. You really only need that doomstack to function. It's hard to build up more than one group of adventures due to limited XP on the board (unless the SK is attacking you).

I've mentioned in other posts that I wish cities and especially towers were built up like Fallen Enchantress. It would certainly give more reason to have a city. As it is, 


"3. Expansions. We have 3 expansions for this game planned over the next 3 years or so. What goes into them will be up to you guys. I can tell you that Sorcerer King is the beginning of a series and not the end of one."

As I see it, right now, the game is about you finding allies and kill the bigbad. To me, an expansion could change it so that the other so-called minor races could defeat the SK too. I'd be an interesting wrinkle if time was spent showing that the minor races will fight the player and SK if you don't convince them to be friends.

The other one would be to create a more interesting EMPIRE secondary game but I think that would be best served with minor races being able to compete more.


"4. Early game setup. One of the things I'd be interested in hearing from you guys on are "advanced setup" options for hard core players. Since I write the code that woul dhandle this, I would be delighted to put in interesting things here. So based on your hours in the game, what sorts of things would you want (besides Doomsday adjustments which I plan to handle through the magic slider)."

a. Monster HP increase

b. Limit of one hero

c. Hero dies and he doesn't return

c. Army cap number

I'm not hardcore and wouldn't purposely make the game much harder I'd think but those above might be thing people might be interested in.


"5. Re Crafting vs. Finding. There seems to be a slight preference that works like this:
I should be able to craft up to great things. But AMAZING things should only be findable and rare. Would this represent your view?"


Except for the Tinkerer, that sounds like my view. It shouldn't be hard to get chain shirts. In fact, I wish things like swords and armor dropped off humanoid monsters. It'd be cool and save me time equipping my doomstack.

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February 23, 2015 2:15:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1. I think the Doomsday Counter is the best part of this game's value proposition, that is, it forces the player to consider time. It solves the biggest weakness of the 4X formula by taking away the option to indefinitely sit around and gather power over an indefinite period.

Think of FTL: you had to think about every jump choice you made, because the enemy fleet was only getting closer. The player could only delay the enemy fleet, never send it back.

I think the player will have a lot more fun if they CANNOT TOUCH THE DOOMSDAY COUNTER SPEED IN ANY WAY. They'll do so thinking they will enjoy the choice but in fact be turning the slider down on their fun. Let difficulty level, i.e. enemy HP and strength, be adjustable.

2. From my view, you already made this choice by skillfully streamlining the city building choices in the logistics versus food paradigm. Empire building in Sorcerer King is fun and crisp as-is, don't fix what isn't broken. Champions are more fun to grow than cities, and as it stands I still get to have some fun city management activity.

"More administrators" is an idea for a simulator or city management game. If you want to go this way, give champions the abilities/items to do it.

3. Expansions: Can't wait!

4. Does such a mod-friendly game like this need an advanced set-up? Just make as much functionality implementable by XML as possible, and the hardcore players will learn to mod and go crazy.

5. Pretty much agree. So long as I am using the new, amazing crafting system to fully customize my heroes, finding an incredible artifact once or twice a game is a fun twist. I think loot has to be a part of the game, but it's appropriate for it to take a back seat to crafting.

 

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February 23, 2015 2:20:24 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

PS I love the ideas of:

-Extremely hard end-game dungeons (do you have time to lose units and burn mana in exchange for unknown great equipment?)

-Minor factions sending their unique champion at you if they become SK allied! (Do you consistently fight back that champion every time he re-spawns, or take the time/risk to defeat the minor faction and be rid of him?)

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February 23, 2015 7:37:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


5. Re Crafting vs. Finding. There seems to be a slight preference that works like this:

I should be able to craft up to great things. But AMAZING things should only be findable and rare. Would this represent your view?

I think this makes sense, but maybe the very best items should be crafted from rare components that you have to quest for. As much as I like the idea of finding rare and powerful artifacts, going on quests the forge the epic sword with which you will slay the SK seems even cooler.

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February 23, 2015 7:39:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Honestly, right now with B4, I'm finding the items I can craft to be mostly underwhelming.

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February 23, 2015 11:19:07 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Borg999,

Honestly, right now with B4, I'm finding the items I can craft to be mostly underwhelming.

Even with the enchantments?

What sorts of things would you like to craft?

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