Dwarven Allies

By on October 3, 2014 8:45:53 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1469

Greetings!

 

Getting a ton of questions regarding minor races.

Here’s the scoop:

You and the Sorcerer King are trying to woo the “remnant factions” (minor races).  Each time you succeed, you gain favor with them. When enough favor has been gained, they will ally with that player.

If they ally with you, they will be attacking the Sorcerer King on their own as well as giving you units. In addition, you can outright ask them for help

image

Each minor race can provide different types of help. All of them will give you access to their unique units.  Some have powerful magic that can take points off the doomsday counter. Others have potions and still others have unique spells that only they have that they’ll share with you.

Each game, what the minors have will change slightly. That is, you won’t get the same potions or spells or ingredients every time. They have their own fairly vast library of “stuff” that is unique to that race.

As a practical matter, you won’t be able to ally with everyone. They have grudges with one another.  For example, the Swamp Giants have a problem with Pariden as Queen Procipinee kicked them out of their ancestral lands.  Hence, if you’re friends with Pariden, it’ll be much harder to be friends with the Swamp Giants.  The quests and conversations you have will differ based on what you’ve done in the game as well as who you’re friends (or enemies) with.

Locked Post 23 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 3, 2014 8:51:59 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Brad, the more I play, the more I realize this is your best Elemental game. Period. It needs this Early Access to find its potential, but it has all the makings to be your best Elemental game and one of my favorites ever. 

 

Now let me have those minors!

 

PS: How many minors are there? Just those that are in the encyclopedia?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 3, 2014 9:34:54 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting XWerewolfX,

Now let me have those minors!
 

 

Do you realize how easily that could be taken out of context?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 3, 2014 10:49:07 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Borg999,


Quoting XWerewolfX,

Now let me have those minors!
 



 

Do you realize how easily that could be taken out of context?

Haha, damn...NOW I do. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 4, 2014 7:25:33 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

sounds absolutely promising.

I agree to werewolfX: Your 'Elemental'-Style games seem to get better avery time!

Love it

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 4, 2014 8:01:37 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What amazes me about the early access is how polished it is. Very elegant game design. I'm hoping more content and a few more mechanics like this will boost its replayability.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 4, 2014 9:44:10 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

So this really is very much like a fleshed out Star Control 2 in an Elemental setting with 4X gameplay?

 

Say that five times fast. Also, FRAK YEAH!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 3:35:59 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Frogboy, so after all, how will the minor factions work?

I thought once you become allies, they will be assimilated into your empire, but apparently, this is not the case. So they will be still around on their own and you can ask them for support - how and how often? Based on some sort of "approval"?

Also, earlier you said you will contact minors via some special unit called ambassador. Now its about distinctive quest lines. So how this will work? Distinctive quest lines that can be only opened through emissaries? Or em. will just increase their opinion by certain amount instantly?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 3:22:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ,


If they ally with you, they will be attacking the Sorcerer King on their own as well as giving you units. In addition, you can outright ask them for help

Each minor race can provide different types of help.


Each game, what the minors have will change slightly. That is, you won’t get the same potions or spells or ingredients every time. They have their own fairly vast library of “stuff” that is unique to that race.


As a practical matter, you won’t be able to ally with everyone.  

The quests and conversations you have will differ based on what you’ve done in the game as well as who you’re friends (or enemies) with.

 

These are all wonderful news for me. I was really skeptical at first when I heard about the minor factions. I feared they would just be "units dispensers". So glad I was wrong!

 

I am also excited about the DM for the quest system. On the steam forum I suggested the game made use of a karma system of some kind, but I am glad you had already big plans for the quests to not be too repetitive. I also hope the consequences of the choices will be randomized, as well as the rewards. (Like sometimes the bandits looting a town will surrender the items and flee, other times they will fight you even if you tried to pick a "safe choice" maybe based again on the previous choices, sovereign skills etc)

 

Are there more than a way to gain favor with minor factions? (this would be awesome).

 

I also second jirkaesch question. How often can you request help? Is it based on how much favor you have? Is the quantity of units/items also dependent on the favor you gathered?

 

Thanks for your hard work on Sorcerer king, I am really glad I decided to be a founder in the end.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 5:42:51 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting pendr4gon,


I am also excited about the DM for the quest system. On the steam forum I suggested the game made use of a karma system of some kind, but I am glad you had already big plans for the quests to not be too repetitive. I also hope the consequences of the choices will be randomized, as well as the rewards. (Like sometimes the bandits looting a town will surrender the items and flee, other times they will fight you even if you tried to pick a "safe choice" maybe based again on the previous choices, sovereign skills etc)

 

This suggestion is awesome. King of Dragon Pass did something like that with its random events in which players had to make choices about external and/or internal political situations. The outcome was based on what you picked but there was also an X factor based on your leaders skill sets, your previous choices, magic points, and so on - not to mention a bit of RNG in the mix.

You might get the same scenario in three different games and it would be entirely possible to get three different results, even if you made the same decision all three times.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 7:27:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting jirkaesch,

Frogboy, so after all, how will the minor factions work?

I thought once you become allies, they will be assimilated into your empire, but apparently, this is not the case. So they will be still around on their own and you can ask them for support - how and how often? Based on some sort of "approval"?

Also, earlier you said you will contact minors via some special unit called ambassador. Now its about distinctive quest lines. So how this will work? Distinctive quest lines that can be only opened through emissaries? Or em. will just increase their opinion by certain amount instantly?

They're still around on the map.  You can ask them for support. How often you get to do that will be based on play-testing.  Right now, it's like every 20 turns.

Each race has their own series of quests available to them.  If it's a simple quest, it'll only get you +1 favor.  If it's a major quest (i.e. multiple steps) it'll be more like +5 (enough to totally win them over).

Different minors can provide different types of support for you along with different units. Some are good at providing you with spells. others with recipes and others can do world effects (like lower the doomsday counter).

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 8:30:34 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Even with the fairly limited choices, the game is pretty fun now.

 

Adding the minor races with a ton of variety will make this game awesome. ^^

 

This is very good to hear:

 

Different minors can provide different types of support for you along with different units. Some are good at providing you with spells. others with recipes and others can do world effects (like lower the doomsday counter)

 

Will there be an option to set which minor races you'd like in the world as well as a random one?

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 10:59:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Thormodr,

Even with the fairly limited choices, the game is pretty fun now.

 

Adding the minor races with a ton of variety will make this game awesome. ^^

 

This is very good to hear:

 


Different minors can provide different types of support for you along with different units. Some are good at providing you with spells. others with recipes and others can do world effects (like lower the doomsday counter)

 


Will there be an option to set which minor races you'd like in the world as well as a random one?

 
 

 

Quick answer: I hope so.  The minor races have turned out a lot better than originally believed so their role is tending to get bigger and bigger.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 6, 2014 11:34:36 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Well, that's good news.

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 7, 2014 9:54:53 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums


With regard to the minor races, I think giving each minor a base score in terms of how it views the player could add more variety and challenge.

So, in effect, at the start of the game, some minors would generally be favorably inclined toward the player, while other minors would be less favorably inclined, or maybe even distrustful. (and that distrust could stem from the relations that the factions had in LH..to be consistent with the lore)

In addition, those base scores should vary from game to game (within a fixed range**) so the player can never be sure how much he has to kiss-up to a minor faction.

** I never liked those games where the AI players view of you was completely random for each game.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 9, 2014 9:04:54 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

So, I just listened to the podcast. It seems the interaction with the minors is solely quest based...very similar to Civ5.  In other words you do a quest, get a unit. I was hoping there would be the potential for greater interaction with the minors, at least the ability to trade with them, and some flavor text.

The minors in Civ5 seem one dimensional and lifeless. You don't really even interact with them. It's just a list of quest. They are there, but they really don't matter. I'm hoping that the minors in SK are fully part of the world.

So, if the minors ally with you, will they actually attack the SK on their own, or is it just a matter of them feeding you a bunch of units?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 9, 2014 11:07:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy said that if they ally with you, they will attack the SK on their own.  If they ally with the SK, they will attack you on their own.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 9, 2014 11:33:09 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Once they ally with you, they do the following:

+ Attack the Sorcerer King units and strongholds on their own

+ Provide faction specific requests to the player (i.e. you talk to them and there's a list of things that you can request where those things are based on a bunch of different variables)

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 12:40:41 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

I do hope that you'll be able to obtain different crafting materials from them. Either through quests or perhaps through trading.

If they are allied with you and are seeking out SK Strongholds and units then there will be less things for you to fight and obtain crafting materials from.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 3:49:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Absolutely fantastic.  Every single bit of news or update on this game has me dribbling down my bib.  I have not been this excited since I managed to break my Tonka truck.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 8:35:53 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Frogboy,

Once they ally with you, they do the following:

+ Attack the Sorcerer King units and strongholds on their own

+ Provide faction specific requests to the player (i.e. you talk to them and there's a list of things that you can request where those things are based on a bunch of different variables)

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the minors.

On a slightly different topic: I've noticed that there are some elements of Civ5 that are showing up in SK. First, is the turn button. Like civ5, it notifies you when there is an idle city/unit, level up , etc. I understand it streamlines gameplay and reduces the leaning curve, but it also feels like I'm following instructions or a receipe. Do this, now do that...

Cities that defend themselves: this is a good idea. If you neglect to build your own units, you always have a few default city defenders to protect the city. In LH, when an enemy attacked, it would switch to the tactical map, and you could actualy see the units and control them if you wanted to. In SK, like civ5, all you see is this red stuff shoot out of the city at the emeny unit. It's automatic, and you have no control. It just feels detached and impersonal. Also, there is no indicator of the cties HP, defense, or how much damage is being inflicted on the enemy with each spray of the red stuff. For me, this reduces immersion.

The map itself: Like Civ5, it's clean and neat, and quite attractive. But like civ5, there is something about it that minimizes the immersion in the game. I can't fully explain it, but in part I think it has to do with the story book / boardgame look of the buildings and terrain.

With regard to the appearance of the game: When I open up Steam, I see a large list of games to scroll through. I quickly scan each for maybe a second or two. Personally, if I see a game with graphics that makes it look like a kids game, I'm more likely not to read further, and just skip it.

IMO, too much streamlining sucks the life out of a game - like Civ5. The trick is to find the right balance.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to discourage anyone, just offering my perspective, right or wrong. - And I'm aware that Brad has explicitely expressed his admiration of Civ5.

 

Patiently waits to be flamed by the fanboys and yes men....

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 8:51:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well, if you want to be flamed, it will definitely be arranged, but not by me.  You make valid points.  But I don't think the graphics scheme can be changed at this late stage, but a fair amount of ruins etc. could help the situation.  And I agree about having in-built basic garrisons.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 9:09:30 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting StevenAus,

Well, if you want to be flamed, it will definitely be arranged, but not by me.  You make valid points.  But I don't think the graphics scheme can be changed at this late stage, but a fair amount of ruins etc. could help the situation.  And I agree about having in-built basic garrisons.

No, I don't want to be flamed, but I've been around the block a few times, and I know what can happen in an echo chamber.

When I look at Endless Legends, I wonder why SD chose the artistic style that it did.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
October 10, 2014 9:25:53 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting Borg999,

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the minors.

On a slightly different topic: I've noticed that there are some elements of Civ5 that are showing up in SK. First, is the turn button. Like civ5, it notifies you when there is an idle city/unit, level up , etc. I understand it streamlines gameplay and reduces the leaning curve, but it also feels like I'm following instructions or a receipe. Do this, now do that...

I like the "Shafer Button", but I actually like it more in Civ V. In SK, you have it available, but in Civ V (and others), you also see a list above that, which is clickable so you can finish the tasks at hand in your order, rather than the order they get listed via that button.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108433  walnut3   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000485   Page Render Time: