Shocked by the appearance of the game

By on August 20, 2014 9:50:19 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

nachtraum

Join Date 07/2012
+2

I am one of those gamers who adored the gameplay and the depth of GC2, but who whished that the game had better graphics. Immersion is an important part of gaming for me, and the appearance of a game obviously can help a great deal to establish this immersion factor. Unfortunalety, the graphics of GC2 did not achieve much in this direction. Because of this, like many others I was thrilled by the news that there will actually be this next generation installment, which promised to change things usings modern methods.

I just now took my first look at GC3, and I have to say that I am more than a little suprised by its current looks. I don't want to (and can't) talk about deeper gameplay changes, but I can tell you what impression I had when I watched the first videos of it, and I am pretty convinced that even for a 4x game, the first impression is important: This game looks exactly like its predecessor! Yes, one can argue that this statement is of course nonsense, because there are some differences here and there, etc, etc. But overall, there is not really a step upwards concerning the appearance of this game noticable.

The planet maps are the same static images like in GC, they look like a board game from 1990, but not in any way like a user interface of a video game from 2014. How can this be? I am currently playing Imperium Galactica 2 on my phone (which achieves a nice immersion btw), where you can zoom in onto a planet (with a 3D model I might add) and build cities there. Not possible for GC 2014? And the star map does also not provide any significant changes either. Ships for example are still flying there zigzag routes (an absolute immersion killer). What, Really? I can not even imagine what the ideas of you guys where to rebuild the same game with the same looks 10 years later.

GC3 has been one of my most anticipated games lately, but frankly, at the moment my impression is that I do not know what this game actually adds to its predecessor, and I think there might not be a need to buy this directly after release. I could be that I will wait until the first good sale at steam.

Locked Post 84 Replies +2
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 20, 2014 9:04:24 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

"Yes, one can argue that this statement is of course nonsense"

It is.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 20, 2014 10:20:46 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

There are three levels of graphics on the main galaxy map:

  1. No Zoom
  2. Medium Zoom
  3. Full Zoom

The first looks like an abstract representation of the galaxy, with little more than basic icons. This is completely intentional and MUST NOT CHANGE. It truly is a map, and maps don't have detail - they convey information, not graphics.  Information on a large scale is aided mostly by simplification, not complexity. There's a reason that things like military maps use common, unchanging graphical icons/symbols for things, despite advances in technology.  This view is all amount information, and, frankly, you should be spending 99% of your time on the galactic view in this mode.

The second view shows you enough details to be kinda cool - planets/sun/whatever now appear as small representations of their "actual" appearance, with modest graphical clarity.  You can play in this mode if you'd like, and I do know some people do. But you give up a significant amount of "situational awareness" to do so, as models do not as accurately portray detailed information about what the item is at a glance (i.e is that a class 10 or class 3 planet? Can't tell unless I mouse over it...), and you inherently limit the total scope of your view (zooming in reduces the total picture.)

The last is for pure eye candy. It's by far the most useless, but is what seems to sell to fans, despite it having NOTHING to do with how good the game is, and actually being a detriment to most games, as the amount of time spent on that level of detail generally means other infrastructure/gameplay development is slighted.  Civ 5 is an excellent example where there's completely gratuitous zoom which eats up a non-trivial amount of compute and time, for nothing other than looking cool.  If you find yourself playing down at this level for more than a few instants, you really completely misunderstand the whole concept of a 4X.

 

Remember, 4X games are the computer version of a boardgame. The important thing is not what they look like (given some reasonable baseline), but how they provide a large-scale empire simulator.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 20, 2014 10:50:22 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums


This game looks exactly like its predecessor!

 

wrong.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 1:25:17 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Isn't  Imperium Galactica 2 a empire building RTS?

 

Anyways with that out of the way, I cannot deny being able to zoom down to the ground of your planets can be awesome for just to look around and admire your personally designed Palace.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 8:40:42 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

My problem isn't the graphics as much as the UI. the graphics of the UI i think need attention. there is a difference between the game graphics and the UI graphics. Also i'm not sure why start dock insists on having a list of all planets right there on screen at all times. I can't think of a game that star dock hasn't made that does this. I think it clutters up the screen and valuable real estate that could be sued to get a better look at the overall empire. There are "report" pages that a player can pull up and look at the list of planets. At the beginning of each turn there's a list of planets that completed there projects so you don't need them for that. I mean they serve no real purpose other then cluttering up the screen. Can you at least turn that off? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 10:28:40 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

If you go back and look at some old post of mine (I dont have time to find them right now - otherwise I would link to them), I had posted something similar when I played GalCiv3 for the first time. I felt I was playing Galactic Civilizations 2. Everything 'felt' and 'looked' the same as 2.

It wasn't until i went back and played GalCiv2 that I truly understood how different the two games are. GalCiv3 looks WAAAAAAaaaaaaayyyyyy better than GalCiv2. So staggering were the differences back then I was compelled to come back to these boards and repost my shock and awe. I have remained here ever since.

For anyone feeling that GalCiv3 seems like the same game as 2, I challenge you all to go back and play GalCiv2 after playing GalCiv3 for awhile. It is then you can truly appreciate and experience of what the developers have done.  They have masterfully transferred the soul of GalCiv2 (a masterpiece game) into GalCiv3 and are using that as a foundation to build the game.

It was their utmost intent to have you feel like you are playing GalCiv2 - many feel GalCiv2 is the perfect strategy game and the developers felt 'if it ain't broke, why fix it?'. I think it is amazing and a feat (and eerie at the same time) that the two games can look SO different yet a good chunk of peoples' brains (including mine initially) cannot distinguish and differentiate the current game from it's predecessor without some sort of real time comparison. Once your brain recognizes this comparison you can truly appreciate what they are doing here. Of course as we get closer to final release the game is going to start to have elements that will clearly distinguish itself from GalCiv2. It is still early and I simply can't wait to see what they add next!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 11:33:39 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Matopicus,

My problem isn't the graphics as much as the UI. the graphics of the UI i think need attention.

That is perfectly reasonable. The UI is always a work in progress in every game I play. I for one just get used to the style when I play the game and given this is a beta the UI is a place where they may make some changes. I for one would just like more customization of the UI, being able to close some of the windows (even if I'll use them all the time, I'd like to close some windows so they do not distract from looking at the gameboard).

At the moment, I don't know of a way to close the planet, ship, etc. list on the side there. The UI does take up the right hand of the screen, maybe they will add this feature in the game, to close the UI around. Especially if it is an easy change for them.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 12:04:27 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Matopicus,

Quoting Echelion,

You idiots ....



interesting, so we're idiots because our opinions are different then yours. But then again yours is different then ours so does that make you an idiot too?

You know it's unfortunate that we can't express our own opinion and what we had hoped to get out of a game without being insulted.

My Apologies if you took it personally, i see you didnt argue the rest of my point?

Anyway back on topic - I liked Need for speed underground so I bought NFSU 2 basically a car racing game and the sequel was also a car racing game I didnt post on the forum that I wanted the sequel to be a truck racing game therefore, if GC1+2 dont have Tactical combat why should another sequel? I bought GC1 and DL on spec and liked them so much I bought GC2 Ultimate when I saw it on the shop shelf.I like watching the combat viewer and like watching the old vids people have done on Youtube (hope to do some myself someday). Perhaps I'm a stick in the mud or just like GC the way Brad makes it.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 12:53:18 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting EleventhStar,

Reply to EleventhStar - Well...you know well what I meant by 8 sided hex directional compass movement e.g (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW) for gaming..I was being abstract and passionate - not obtuse. But you just wanted to be



While i expected you meant 8 directional movement and/or a square grid, i have never heard it described with words like compass and natural. But seeing as i haven't played many tactical combat based games like might and magic, i was wondering if i was missing out on some terminology.



I also really cannot understand why 8 (or 6 for that matter) directional movement feels natural. I'd say you need at least 16 but preferably 24 or 32 directions of movement in a plane to get a passable approximation of natural. But that is besides the point.


I think your are trolling for the sake of it - Just my opinion on Aesthetics of movement and having playing options for features like Tactical warfare. < please dont have a meltdown just because i used the term - 'Tactical' and 'Warfare' >

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 21, 2014 2:17:46 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Thank you for all the constructive feedback and oppinion sharing. Did help me a lot to get a better understanding of GC3 and the differences to GC2.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 4:19:16 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Echelion,

Quoting Matopicus,




Quoting Echelion,



You idiots ....



interesting, so we're idiots because our opinions are different then yours. But then again yours is different then ours so does that make you an idiot too?

You know it's unfortunate that we can't express our own opinion and what we had hoped to get out of a game without being insulted.



My Apologies if you took it personally, i see you didnt argue the rest of my point?

Anyway back on topic - I liked Need for speed underground so I bought NFSU 2 basically a car racing game and the sequel was also a car racing game I didnt post on the forum that I wanted the sequel to be a truck racing game therefore, if GC1+2 dont have Tactical combat why should another sequel? I bought GC1 and DL on spec and liked them so much I bought GC2 Ultimate when I saw it on the shop shelf.I like watching the combat viewer and like watching the old vids people have done on Youtube (hope to do some myself someday). Perhaps I'm a stick in the mud or just like GC the way Brad makes it.

I un-friended him on steam for a reason...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 8:44:11 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Echelion,

Quoting Matopicus,

Quoting Echelion,
You idiots ....
interesting, so we're idiots because our opinions are different then yours. But then again yours is different then ours so does that make you an idiot too?

You know it's unfortunate that we can't express our own opinion and what we had hoped to get out of a game without being insulted.

My Apologies if you took it personally, i see you didnt argue the rest of my point?

Anyway back on topic - I liked Need for speed underground so I bought NFSU 2 basically a car racing game and the sequel was also a car racing game I didnt post on the forum that I wanted the sequel to be a truck racing game therefore, if GC1+2 dont have Tactical combat why should another sequel? I bought GC1 and DL on spec and liked them so much I bought GC2 Ultimate when I saw it on the shop shelf.I like watching the combat viewer and like watching the old vids people have done on Youtube (hope to do some myself someday). Perhaps I'm a stick in the mud or just like GC the way Brad makes it.

Lol i didn't argue your points because your probably right. apparently you didn't read any of my posts. My largest concern and reason i'll wait for it to be on sale is the UI. I even stated that i hadn't played the game and it's probably made huge strides but i just can't get past the horrible UI. 

 

Yes there are others here that posted that they had more dislikes then the UI, i'm not going to judge anything beyond what i can see in the videos and what i see is a horrible User Interface. Oh and the zip zag movement, i don't like that. It's like a drunk trying to make it to the bathroom before he pukes. I think it takes you away from the immersion of the space empire thing. But i understand that it's something that i'm sure i would get used to and some people even like it. So that wont prevent me from buying the game but the UI will, at least for what they're wanting me to pay for it.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 8:45:05 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

whoops wrong button.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 1:04:00 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Echelion,

Quoting Matopicus,




Quoting Echelion,



You idiots ....



interesting, so we're idiots because our opinions are different then yours. But then again yours is different then ours so does that make you an idiot too?

You know it's unfortunate that we can't express our own opinion and what we had hoped to get out of a game without being insulted.



My Apologies if you took it personally, i see you didnt argue the rest of my point?

Anyway back on topic - I liked Need for speed underground so I bought NFSU 2 basically a car racing game and the sequel was also a car racing game I didnt post on the forum that I wanted the sequel to be a truck racing game therefore, if GC1+2 dont have Tactical combat why should another sequel? I bought GC1 and DL on spec and liked them so much I bought GC2 Ultimate when I saw it on the shop shelf.I like watching the combat viewer and like watching the old vids people have done on Youtube (hope to do some myself someday). Perhaps I'm a stick in the mud or just like GC the way Brad makes it.

I respect those that have the loudest voice in a noisy room, and say what they believe.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 2:18:08 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I agree that the interface looks dated.

I am unsure the grid is really useful ; removing it would give a better "space" immersion (i.e. moving to any point in space) ; sticking the fleets on the hex grid doesn't feel like the actual straight lines that fleet should follow.

Then, another thing is the appearance of planets directly on the Galactic map. The problem is that it gives the map un ungalactic scale! After all, it looks like a star system is 3 hexes in radius. The Universe we play on is rather small!!! I am pretty sure there are other ways to reach one's planet from the top interface without placing the planets as they are now.

I don't say anything about planets themselves. The devs are trying to implement something like a game of optimization on the planet surface, and it has its own interst.

Yves

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 2:37:53 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting moi-meme,

Then, another thing is the appearance of planets directly on the Galactic map. The problem is that it gives the map un ungalactic scale! After all, it looks like a star system is 3 hexes in radius. The Universe we play on is rather small!!! I am pretty sure there are other ways to reach one's planet from the top interface without placing the planets as they are now.

You wouldn't want to play a game that uses a galactic scale anyway. An inch size earth would equate to a 9 foot diameter sun (or thereabouts) The map has been states as to represent time to travel vs. actual physical distance. The travel time towards the edge are a lot faster and therefore one travels a larger physical distance in a short amount of time. Hence, the universe is not representing a physical scale.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 22, 2014 4:02:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

There are going to be detractors of this game who obviously expected Stardock to pull rabbits out of hats and shoot lightening bolts from their buttocks. Well that isn't going to happen.

What the detractors fail to realize is this game is a follow on to Galactic Civilization 2 so naturally it's going have a lot of features and tools we had in GC2. The best part is all those features and tools have been immensely improved. I like the hex layout of the map. The ship graphics are 100X times better than GC2 and I have received countless compliments on my custom ship designs from people here. When Campaign mode is available it will continue where GC2 TOA left off. I would not have it any other way!!!!

To compare this game to the likes of other 4x games seems ridiculous to me. I see features here in the game that make it standout and every new update has made it better even in spite of the bugs but we are finding fewer and fewer bugs.

I really think those of you who are detracting from the game need to give it a chance. Its NOT Finished! There is much work still to be done here. Many things have yet to be added. As an alpha stage and beta stage tester I could be happier with where the game is now and I hope it will be when its gold.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 4:22:40 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

It'll be a sad day when I can't find anymore bugs.

BUT AS LONG AS IM BREATHING AND PATCHS ARE BEING MADE I WILL KEEP LOOKING!!!!!

 

DARCA

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 10:33:49 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting DARCA1213,

It'll be a sad day when I can't find anymore bugs.

BUT AS LONG AS IM BREATHING AND PATCHS ARE BEING MADE I WILL KEEP LOOKING!!!!!

 

DARCA

 

If it any consolation Darca you can have this BUG and keep it as a pet....

Small scale transport, I call it the Arachnid Combat Crawler.

Be sure to feed it lots of aliens. Its gets hungry.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 11:21:06 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Just an idea for planets: instead of being a flat hex grid, it could appear as a 3D model (sphere with an hex grid imposed on it) that you would rotate to place your building on.

It is not that complicated to implement, and it sure would feel more like a planet!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 11:29:33 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting moi-meme,

Just an idea for planets: instead of being a flat hex grid, it could appear as a 3D model (sphere with an hex grid imposed on it) that you would rotate to place your building on.

Mathematically it is impossible for a hex grid to have any curvature. So to impose a hex grid on a spherical planet would not be possible. The best you could do is a soccer ball arrangement, but that includes pentagons.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 11:40:29 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting moi-meme,

Just an idea for planets: instead of being a flat hex grid, it could appear as a 3D model (sphere with an hex grid imposed on it) that you would rotate to place your building on.

It is not that complicated to implement, and it sure would feel more like a planet!

What value would this add? Look good? With the current setup I can see the layout at a glance and it is easy to place improvements, with your suggestion I'd have to rotate the planet when I would like to build something, this would get really old really fast.

And it is harder to implement than you think, one of the reasons was stated by parrottmath.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 23, 2014 12:24:53 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting moi-meme,

Just an idea for planets: instead of being a flat hex grid, it could appear as a 3D model (sphere with an hex grid imposed on it) that you would rotate to place your building on.

It is not that complicated to implement, and it sure would feel more like a planet!
I wouldent mind seeing this as a zoom option that would allow me to see the globe in more detail then the galaxy map but then unwrap for actual placement of tiles

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 24, 2014 11:30:44 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting parrottmath,


Quoting moi-meme,

Just an idea for planets: instead of being a flat hex grid, it could appear as a 3D model (sphere with an hex grid imposed on it) that you would rotate to place your building on.



Mathematically it is impossible for a hex grid to have any curvature. So to impose a hex grid on a spherical planet would not be possible. The best you could do is a soccer ball arrangement, but that includes pentagons.

 

I'm fairly aware of mathematics, thanks. Only five regular volumes can fit a sphere. Actually, there are only five regular volumes at all. Twenty faces, or isocahedron is the best (maximal number of faces) you can achieve ; it involves triangles and not pentagons.

But in the same way, it's impossible to correctly project a sphere on a plane ; but we do it every day, don't we ? Don't we use flat maps ?

So there certainly is a smart way ; for exemple, take the current look, project it back onto the sphere (you select an appropriate latitude for the uninhabitable portion of the planet near the poles, something like Pi/3.) And there you are with something that looks hexagonal (with perspective.) I'm pretty sure that would do the trick.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
August 24, 2014 11:50:26 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I was shocked by how great the ships looked in beta! I've been firing up GalCiv3 with each update and haven't been too thrilled yet with what has been on offer, but the switch from Alpha to Beta has brought a lot of excellent changes and additions. It only strengthens my faith in Stardock to make GalCiv3 into an amazing game by launch day, which is still a looooooong ways off. If I only wanted to play an amazing and complete version of the game I would wait until launch. Heck, I might even wait until a few patches post launch. But I like watching the game grow. That's why I'm a Founder. I suggest that anyone who cannot stand playing betas should avoid playing betas. 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000297   Page Render Time: