Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes 1.7 BETA Now Available

By on July 10, 2014 11:53:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

abiessener

Join Date 01/2006
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Arguably the biggest patch to date for Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes is now available for opt-in beta testing. Frogboy has made huge improvement to many areas of the AI, Commanders get new class-specific items, rival sovereigns are a lot chattier, and balance has gotten a hard look across the board. 

Patch notes can be found here: http://forums.elementalgame.com/455808/page/1/

LH 1.7, like all of Stardock's patches, will be free for everyone who has purchased the game.

To download the beta, do the following:
  1. Log into your Steam client.
  2. Right-click Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes and choose Properties.
  3. Select the BETAS tab.
  4. In the drop-down menu, choose "1.7 Beta".
  5. Close the Properties window.

Steam should automatically download the update.

Note that saved games from previous patches will probably work with the 1.7 beta, but will be missing many of the balance changes. Start a new game to check out LH 1.7 the way it's meant to be played.

Please report any bugs or other issues you encounter to the LH Support forum so that we can make the 1.7 release the best it can be.

Thanks as always for your support, and happy conquering!

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July 17, 2014 2:32:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,

We need a high-end unrest reducing building that can be built in any city with all the nerfs you are doing to unrest.  (requiring Alliances or some unused civics tech)

Granted I mostly play on Medium maps, but I haven't had any issues with the unrest nerfs -- but then I always prioritize growing Fortresses into Prisons. Are you having issues on small/medium maps, or larger?

I ask because I genuinely think that the unrest nerfs end up creating a more balanced game between tall/wide empires, which is a scale that has previously tipped *hard* to the "wide" side.

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July 17, 2014 3:13:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,

We need a high-end unrest reducing building that can be built in any city with all the nerfs you are doing to unrest.  (requiring Alliances or some unused civics tech)

Oh I don't know about that....I think the unrest reductions are a good more. I have 10 cities in my empire at the moment and it's going alright. Two of my cities have Embassys and two others have Prisons, and for the most part my cities have ~30% unrest @ High tax rate.

I don't really like that the Bell Tower takes a back seat compared to the Cleric....not sure what to do about that though.

As for the Townhall, perhaps increasing the ZoC by an additional +1 would help as this improvement would then help close the gaps and remove contigous unrest penalities? Just a thought...

 

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July 17, 2014 3:16:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
Quoting abiessener,
but then I always prioritize growing Fortresses into Prisons

Then why bother having the other two options? I suppose my point is that the options provided should be both unique and competitive. Some of those upgrades are....underwhelming...

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July 18, 2014 1:05:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GFireflyE,

It's a result of the existing hero system. The higher level heroes are pre-designed with classes already selected. So, none of those heroes will be able to be a Paladin, or Ranger, or Gravelord, etc.

One solution is to just design more heroes.

Another could be to cast a 'summon hero' spell (like in MoM).

 

OK I see.  Personally I think that if modders create a new class, they should also create extras here's to go with it... i.e. a few higher level ones so you have a chance that a level 7 ninja turns up or whatever.

But yeah... an option to use fame to buy a random level 1 or 3 that has no class might be interesting.

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July 18, 2014 8:05:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abiessener,

I ask because I genuinely think that the unrest nerfs end up creating a more balanced game between tall/wide empires, which is a scale that has previously tipped *hard* to the "wide" side.

I'm not sure that the tall/wide dichotomy makes sense in the context of this game. As I understand it, playing tall means you have a few awesome cities, and wide means you have many smaller/weaker cities. The reason unrest serves as a poor balance to the two play-styles is that it only addresses one side of the equation, number of cities, with out having any effect on the other side, city size. This means that it is very easy to have many large and powerful cities. This removes the choice between these two play-styles because of course it's better to have many awesome cities than a few awesome cities. By the way, this is not a problem in my eyes, but a feature. I love that I don't have to choose between wide and tall in this game.

If the objective is to encourage taller game-play (or discourage wider), wouldn't it make more sense to increase the per-city unrest or the area around a city that becomes unsettle-able? Nerfs to bell tower and town hall hurt tall players as much as they hurt wide players. Now if I have 3 cities with bell towers and town halls I have to deal with the same unrest as if I had 8 cities in 1.6. How is that benefiting the tall player?

 

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July 18, 2014 8:54:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm curious what the current build number is for the latest Beta. I'm asking because I don't think my Beta got updated correctly. I've even verified the integrity of the cache files and two were replaced. My build is 327537. The reason why I think it didn't update correctly is because I see that towns still give -20% unrest instead of the change to -10%. Thanks.

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July 18, 2014 9:02:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abiessener,


Quoting Alstein, reply 47
We need a high-end unrest reducing building that can be built in any city with all the nerfs you are doing to unrest.  (requiring Alliances or some unused civics tech)



Granted I mostly play on Medium maps, but I haven't had any issues with the unrest nerfs -- but then I always prioritize growing Fortresses into Prisons. Are you having issues on small/medium maps, or larger?

I ask because I genuinely think that the unrest nerfs end up creating a more balanced game between tall/wide empires, which is a scale that has previously tipped *hard* to the "wide" side.

 

I didn't know FE:LH was supposed to have tall/wide empires until I read this post >.>

 

Why do devs never do what I prefer.. I prefer a fusion of tall and wide. >< On biggest of the maps possible!

 

At very least this does explain why most of the AIs fail hard now, they're going tall and dying horribly in general, ones that go wide and develop their cities successfully while using cheats to mitigate the unrest penalties is the ones that give me a good fight.

 

While the ones that does go tall, they also ignore unrest reducing structures no matter what making the tall horribly pointlessly for the AI. While i'm at it, the tall AIs in Civ5 also fail hard/horribly because they love to neglect their military defenses. Is sad because when I decide to go tall I also have a massive military at same time frustrating all the warmongers who wanna hurt me because I have tiny empire.

I only bother to mention this because Devs actually read this forum unlike the eternal silence from firaxis on the matters of upgrading the military AI.

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July 18, 2014 4:12:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ericridge,

At very least this does explain why most of the AIs fail hard now, they're going tall and dying horribly in general, ones that go wide and develop their cities successfully while using cheats to mitigate the unrest penalties is the ones that give me a good fight.

Less unrest mitigation = tall > wide.  Wide was overwhelmingly the best choice, previously.  We'll see how it plays out with the new patch, and if the AI is able to adapt.

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July 19, 2014 1:32:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Why not just mod the game and give the AI 0 unrest at higher difficulty levels?

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July 19, 2014 3:45:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting UnleashedElf,

Why not just mod the game and give the AI 0 unrest at higher difficulty levels?

 

Nah from what i read on the forums.. AI's priority on unrest building is currently set to very low.

All they need to do is change that apparently to like something like medium or high.

 

Well if you was to ask me, I would say I rate unrest reduction buildings very high because it' what allows me to have more resources and cities..

 

 

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July 19, 2014 4:11:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ericridge,

Quoting UnleashedElf,

Why not just mod the game and give the AI 0 unrest at higher difficulty levels?
 

Nah from what i read on the forums.. AI's priority on unrest building is currently set to very low.

All they need to do is change that apparently to like something like medium or high.

 
Well if you was to ask me, I would say I rate unrest reduction buildings very high because it' what allows me to have more resources and cities..

 
 
and, depending on the difficulty level, I believe the AI cheats and thus does not require unrest buildings to be effective. This allows them to focus on the more competitive structures...and units.

 
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July 19, 2014 5:15:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GFireflyE,


Quoting Ericridge,




Quoting UnleashedElf,



Why not just mod the game and give the AI 0 unrest at higher difficulty levels?
 

Nah from what i read on the forums.. AI's priority on unrest building is currently set to very low.

All they need to do is change that apparently to like something like medium or high.

 
Well if you was to ask me, I would say I rate unrest reduction buildings very high because it' what allows me to have more resources and cities..
 


 
Gfireflye-
and, depending on the difficulty level, I believe the AI cheats and thus does not require unrest buildings to be effective. This allows them to focus on the more competitive structures...and units.

 

Fixed the post for u

Hooboy this is annoying if this is true.

That basically saves the AI about 20 turns at minimum per city lol

Cheating at unrest isn't that good of a idea.

I was among the pissed off people at CIv5 who kept at staring at AIs in Civ5 Vanilla and Gods n Kings running enormous empires on biggest map with metropolises everywhere. So I started counting their population and found out that they ran off Chieftain happiness bonuses.

Result?


I entered XML and set population unhappiness per population from 1 to 0. With that factor removed, my Gods n Kings copy of Civ5 became awesome Empires vs Empires. Yeah that resulted in permanent golden ages for AI civs and semi permanent golden ages for me. It accidentally resulted in Iroquois producing the best Naval Armada during modern era I have ever seen in my history of playing strategy turn based games. I was forced away from invading iroquois's mainlands across the ocean and happily accepted the ceasefire offer from iroquois after he chased me away. 

 

Beautiful things happened.

That was the first and only time that I have ever seen AI produce an excellent armada even when I sank like 95% of it I had like about 3 to 1 kill ratio. But catch is that he had so many to the point where I got tired and gave up especially after one of my elite battleships with every promotion possible got sunk. Plus I didn't have enough ships to endure the air bombardment in my attempt to push onto their coastline.

 

Best part? Iroquois didn't rely on tech cheats. Difficulty was King. Every war between us on that map had equal level tech units. As the result the wars became very fun instead of seeing some stupid AI wave it's cheat wand and drop down troops several generations ahead of yours despite your best efforts in research phase pushes.

 

I'm sure we all know how well cheaters is treated on shooter game >.>

 

Then with brave new world, I'm not sure if AI has it's chieftain happiness cheats removed or not but the world seems to be going well now that human players can access enough happiness points to field similar empires as the AI in Vanilla/Gods n Kings without going into xml and changing that part of file.

 

Then we go back to FE:LH... the AI here is having trouble even with unrest cheats? I find it hard to believe. On expert mode, the AI can build Hosten's Library by turn 100-200. And that is a late game wonder in magic tech tree if i remember right. If human player had to rush for it, his civilization/military tech will suffer and leave themselves very vulnerable to raiding monsters.

 

I'm not even sure what i'm trying to say anymore at this point >.>

 

Civ series do have one definite advantage over FE:LH at this point and that is it simply had more development time put into it's engine. And FE:LH is very brand new so I believe that Devs hasn't tried out everything yet.

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July 19, 2014 5:35:10 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Anyone? I'm just asking what the current build number is for this beta. If you don't know how to find it, just right click on the game in steam, choose properties, then click on the tab labeled "local files" and you'll see the current build number listed there under the "verify integrity of game cache". Thanks in advance!

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July 19, 2014 5:54:07 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FWIW, I don't actually know if Derek has the tall/wide contrast as a design priority in LH, and even if he does it's much less of a focus than in Civ. I tend to agree that the most advantageous path is to grow as wide as possible within reason, even with the bell tower/townhall nerfs. I do think it's less overwhelmingly strong now, though, which is good in my eyes as it evens things out a bit between empires -- which then leads to more awesome wars.

On city level-up upgrades, I do find myself picking the same ones almost all the time. Mostly because Strike Garrison, Prison, Oracle, Amethyst Vault, Guild Grocer, and Governor's Whatever are so crazy freaking good. I'll poke Derek to see if he agrees

BTW, anyone stomped on the Scrapyard in 1.7 yet? I got crazy items in a Krax playthrough I just finished. Karavox was amused, not that it mattered since he pretty much blizzard'd Anthys into submission because blizzard is the freaking best.

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July 19, 2014 6:53:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Ericridge,

Fixed the post for u

Not sure why it's doing that. I guess I just break threads...

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July 19, 2014 6:56:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abiessener,

BTW, anyone stomped on the Scrapyard in 1.7 yet? I got crazy items in a Krax playthrough I just finished. Karavox was amused, not that it mattered since he pretty much blizzard'd Anthys into submission because blizzard is the freaking best.

I went through the Scrapyard in my first 1.7 game. Didn't think any of the items I got were that crazy...though I did go through it near the end of the game just before I won with a Spell of Mastery victory.

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July 19, 2014 7:03:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Comments from my first game can be found here: http://forums.elementalgame.com/455934/page/1/#9

 

Onwards to my second game!

LH v1.7 beta 2.0

Starting up another game and providing comments in the hopes that further polish improvements can be made to the game. As with the last game, I will be playing with 'extra content' type mods, but not with 'fixes' type mods. A screen shot of the mods that I am using can be found

here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/syc7wztiuudu0i0/Screenshot%202014-07-11%2009.49.25.png

Again, the core changes that I make in order to help balance the game and make gameplay more enjoyable:

  • Changed Book of Mastery prerequisite from Third Book of the Magi to Ereog's Journal 
  • Removed the +1 attack from the Swarm ability. 
  • Reduced Crushing Blow ability from 2x to 1.5x. 
  • Increased MinValidTotalTileYield from 6.0 to 7.0 
  • Increased MaxTotalTileYield from 9.0 to 10.0

Playing as Morrigan the Risen; World set to Hard, AI set to Hard:

  • I've been 'ctrl-N'ing for a decent start (so that I can provide decent feedback) and I've noticed that the Undead start beside Wild Grain ~8/10 games. Why the very high spawn rate when Undead cannot even use it? 
  • Similar to Wild Grain, I recommend a new resource be created, perhaps called "Graveyard" or "Mass Grave"; locations devastated by the great cataclysm...perhaps the ruins of ancient cities. The undead would be able to harvest bodies from these sites in order to give them minor over time boosts in growth. This may also help the AI play the Undead better.
  • The AI does not care much for finding locations with essence on them. The AI should prefer essence locations nearby to those without...
  • Staves have not yet been modified to remove initiative penalties (or make them less severe)
  • Skeletons move too slow compared to the other race's common type units. I understand the thematic approach to having slow moving skeletons...but that takes away from the pace/tempo of the game. 
  • Why does the Skeleton have a wage of 0.0 gildar, but the Spearman have a wage of -0.0 gildar ? Why the negative? 
  • The spell Terror has quite the large over-encompassing animation. If possible, recommend reducing the spreading aura to just 1 square radius around the target before dissipating instead of covering the entire screen. (save that animation for the bigger fear spells)
  • The racial spell Terror is snap-broken. It's so easy to overwhelm any force as my units take turns fearing the enemy. Recommend for this spell to be a little easier to resist.

 

  • The was mentioned already by others, but I am tending to agree: Experience seems to be gained too quickly now. I am leveling up my heroes after every battle at the beginning of the game...and they are all easy encounters so far. Perhaps reducing the experience just a tad would be beneficial...

 

 

More comments to come...

 

Here are more comments...

 

  • In tactical combat, when hovering over your units to see the extent of your reach or hovering over enemy unit to see the extent of theirs, both purplish and greenish colors are very hard to make out. Is it possible for these colors to be contrasted a little more to help make out where everyone can move and reach.
  • Whenever a second combat happens against one of my cities, the city defenders do not show up to fight, despite not taking any damage in the first combat.

 

  • I'm going to go out a limb here and make the case that the Consulates did not receive a nurf from the +1 growth as Frogboy had originally intended because the Undead would have a very difficult time staying competitive without the growth mechanism. Might I offer an alternative (in addition to the new resource as described above):  
    • Have the Mausoleum grant +1 Growth in addition to its other bonuses  
    • Have the Necropolis grant and additional +1 Growth in addition to its other bonuses
  • Undead cities would effectively receive and easy +1 Growth near the beginning of the game and the ability to increase that to +2 in the late game. Combine that with special buildings and the new resource as well as killing humans and a nurfed Consulate and I think the Undead will do just fine...if fact, I think they will perform better than they currently do.

 

  • Recommend that the Consulate have its effectiveness reduced from +1 Growth per turn to +1 Growth per every 5 turns.
  • The Spell Despair to too powerful. Recommend reducing it's damage from 3 Damage per Level down to 2.5 Damage per Level. Recommend reducing it's resist damage from 2 Damage per level down to 1.5 Damage per Level.
  • I have a dozen or so units built, Skeletons, Spearmen, and Eternal Defenders. Why does only the 1 Skeleton show up in the Economy Ledger? See attached: https://www.dropbox.com/s/diwlj7phlr60q98/Screenshot%202014-07-19%2022.10.00.png
  • Does the Arena properly give the 25% chance of experience to units stationed within the city? If not, the descriptions should be rewritten to better reflect the guaranteed experience that is gained (as was done with the Adventurer's Guild).

Turn 127, here is a snapshot of my current game: https://www.dropbox.com/s/stgzk9w7rj3ul4b/Screenshot%202014-07-19%2020.42.14.png I've never been last before. I think it has a lot to due with my cities not growing very well, which is a bit of an illusion because my undead army is quite sustainable at the moment.

 

More comments to come...

UPDATE:

Well, 1.7 has now been released, so this game is at an end. I will provide 1.7 comments in another thread.

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July 19, 2014 7:03:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Avatar137,

Anyone? I'm just asking what the current build number is for this beta. If you don't know how to find it, just right click on the game in steam, choose properties, then click on the tab labeled "local files" and you'll see the current build number listed there under the "verify integrity of game cache". Thanks in advance!

 

It says number 327537 to me.

 

Ah okay Gfireflye. Yeah it seems like you broke the forums somehow

And, uh about scrapyard the last time I stomped on it was back in 1.5, havent' seen it ever since but that run was mad awesome, i got me alot of magical pikes for my heroes. Including alot of pikes I have never seen before Like that hummingbird pike which has special summon which allows you to summon an air elemental lol Apparently it is made in Tan Kreet uh that Gilden's city. But Gilden cannot get that pike crafted though they only can loot it from the world. It was an interesting experience getting an air elemental in a bunch of battles even when it was almost useless unless fighting against frail enemies.

 

There might be a scrapyard in the current game though, but cannot verify yet, angry earth dragon is chasing one of my armies trying to confirm the area so it might be awhile until i come back with plate armor/pikes.

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July 19, 2014 7:41:10 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Ericridge,

It says number 327537 to me.

 

Thanks Ericridge!

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July 20, 2014 1:01:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abiessener,

On city level-up upgrades, I do find myself picking the same ones almost all the time. Mostly because Strike Garrison, Prison, Oracle, Amethyst Vault, Guild Grocer, and Governor's Whatever are so crazy freaking good. I'll poke Derek to see if he agrees

I agree city level-ups need a LOT of love. 

Funny, I almost always take Infirmary at Fortress lvl 3.  I actually think that level-up (Fort3) is probably the best balanced of all of them.  I would prefer if Watchtower gave +2 ZoC or something rather than the catapult defender.

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July 20, 2014 4:18:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

In my current LH 1.7 Beta 2.0 game with 13 AI players, none of them were at war with each other until turn 175, when the Blood Season event got triggered. So is the "issue keeping the AI from declaring war" truly fixed? On a side note, having non belligerent AI players results in severe Pioneers spam. All over the place.

The river squares still only require one movement point to cross. There is no mention of it in the changelog list unless you consider: "Fixed weird pathfinding bug that caused rivers to be extremely aggravating to deal with".  So what's the "official" position here?

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July 20, 2014 7:51:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I still haven't had the AI declare war on each other after about 10 hours with the new patch.

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July 20, 2014 8:39:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The city upgrades need a rebalance/revamp.   So many of them are no-brainer decisions that aren't influenced by the situation.

 

I'd also like to see a 1/4 chance of an upgrade that isn't building specific pop up.

 

I also think cities and conclaves should be able to build walls, while towns and conclaves should get unit buffs that make it where building troops in non-fortresses isn't worthless. 

 

Radical idea: the training yards and barracks buidling everywhere- the higher-level buildings give per empire upgrades instead of per fortress.

 

 

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July 21, 2014 12:39:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I wasn't sure this was worth a new thread -- I assume it is the same in 1.6 as well, not just 1.7.  Lifeblood (Leader Pack DLC) activates when you use ranged (magic) weapons.  My guess is that the Wand of Cold/Fire's action is considered a spell effect.  If your hero has a wand, and lifeblood, you heal every turn, whether you cast a spell, or shoot your weapon.  Very handy, and probably not intentional.       

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July 21, 2014 8:24:09 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The things that I think need work in the next patch in terms of balance/fun

 

remove champion XP sharing nerf.  Champs aren't strong enough to justify this, and item exclusivity makes this more annoying

building level-ups need to be revamped

certain champion level-ups need to be made viable. esp on assassin tree

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