What do you like LEAST about Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes?

By on April 21, 2014 11:43:13 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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We had a great discussion about what features of LH players liked the most.

Now, let’s turn it on its head.  What parts of Legendary Heroes do you like the least?

This doesn’t have to be a feature list either, it could be elements of the game (or parts of the game) that you just find boring or frustrating or poorly thought out.

Let us know!

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GFireflyE
April 25, 2014 2:29:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My least favorite things about Legendary Heroes...

 

1) The biggest would have to be that the factions and races are bland. They are all humans (or close to it, for the evil factions), the buildings look the same, they build the same, and except for a few units like golems, all of the units are the same. None of the lore is evident in their units and structures. A lot of this is because of the whole "build your own units" thing. If this was gone, I feel like a lot more could be done.

2) Territory claiming. Cities can be built way to close to enemies. Where you can settle is also very random and can be annoying. Outposts to claim territories anywhere on the map is one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game. They are why I play with cheats.

3) Civilization combat. While I love going out and battling monsters while exploring the map, fighting other civilizations is not enjoyable. It is very long and drawn out, with bizarre combat gains. Taking enemy cities takes a VERY long time. Getting your cities taken feels cheap. The fact that you cannot kill heroes makes the fights really drag out.

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April 25, 2014 5:05:25 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would love to see protecting my claimed area from being entered by the computer ( via diplomacy - auto war for example )

I think we need more tech options , even maybe some choices should have results like not being able to select other techs.

upkeep for buildings ( money - space - city type - max number of buildings etc. ) to force selecting what can be build

more trade options. I always liked the "civilization" concept that you can only built a unit or building if the resource was available to your city.

spell trees are no way balanced. Arcane monolith vs any spell in game is unfair to even discuss.

A magical solution for invul to damage like dispel ( generic spell to all )  is a must.

 

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April 25, 2014 7:59:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,

What I really don't like is the complete lack of depth in tactical battles. No LOS, terrain penalties/bonuses, flanking, morale, "give bonus to adjacent friendly unit" and so on. Stardock have been trying hard to keep the time you spend on battles down to a few minutes at most, and it's hurting because of that.

But it doesn't go well with how combat is handled on the strategic level anyway. Fun fights or difficult fights - I'm there! But most fights just get auto-resolved by me anyway. And really, fighting a whole game just to end it all in a 5-minute "siege" feels pathetic. I'm not spending 50% of a game playing battles, it's more like 5%. It's not a good number to be around, 25% would be better and having important fights fly by is unforgivable either way.

 

Again, I understand you wanted to keep the tactical battle duration down and keep focus on strategy. I don't think it turned out well, I don't think those were good decisions. I think you missed out on about 1000 interesting unit traits to link strategic progress with the tactical side of things. I think fights can still be quick, even if they are complex. But tactics needs to be more important*.

 

* This is also an opportunity to make AI more nuanced and difficult. And it would be far more visible than strategic AI gameplay, which (imho) happens 99% behind fog of war anyway.

 

+1000

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April 25, 2014 10:31:05 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Thought of another thing that drives me up a hillside...

As you may know from my previous posts, I really enjoy the aesetics within this game: The art style, the ability to detail your city design, customize your armies, etc. However, when it comes to expanding my cities, expanding them towards hills and mountains just drives me batty! Having the hill/mountain flatten for the sake of the city completely destroys the emersion of the game. It's especially painful when the tiles that flatten are not even part of the city...but are adjacent...and now I have hillside tiles that looks like plains...but have the movement penalty of a hill. At the VERY least, the these tiles should just become plains and lose the movement penalty. At the VERY most, we should have the ability to build cities up a hillside...or into a mountain side. That would be, imo, awesome. I'll underline awesome.

 

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April 25, 2014 12:46:48 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Already posted a checklist of stuff I didn't like, but coming back to play LH after a long break in part to see how it stacked up to the current alternatives, all I can say is that LH is nearly unplayable now (for me) due to 2 things;

1. Ranged Combat; Archers having no range penalty.  Getting thrown onto a map where my melee units have to take 5-6 turns to close the gap while getting mowed down.  Not Fun

2. Line of Sight doesn't matter.  #1 wouldn't be as bad if units could make use of terrain.

After playing AoW, Eador, and Warlock 2, I was looking forward to coming back to LH because there are a LOT of things that FE/LH does very well.  These 2 things are now becoming game breakers, so I do hope that whatever the followup title is to LH has these issues addressed.

My current "fix" for this is to use enable Cheat and teleport my melee units to the ranged enemies (after ~2 turns).  Total cheese and I hate doing it, but FE/LH tactical combat is the suck.

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April 25, 2014 12:51:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The lack of loot/items from defeated heroes.  Could be just one item at random.  AND if my sov/hero has a "pickpocket" skill, I get to choose which item I steal.

 

The lack of positive/negative fame for winning/losing battles/cities/outposts.  If I win a surprise victory against a superior force, i should get a boost in fame.  

 

Fame/infamy could also be used in a GalCiv type alignment system.  The "quest" screen where the cruel dog killing men come to see you and you have three choices could reflect this.  Different heroes could desert you if you become too good or evil.  

 

The lack of consistency in spell effects, certain spells can only be cast once, etc.  (Look at Demons and Wizards mod for a solution to summoning.)

You briefly had spells that were hybrids of two schools, these were great.

Spell books should be big boss or wildland quest rewards, not for sale in a Pariden shop.

All spell schools should have a damage type and it should be consistent with weapon effects/resistances. Totally agree with going with a Diablo-type of prefix\suffix item crafting randomizer.

Life\Holy\Resists Death.

Death\Unholy\Resists Life.

Earth\Poison\Resist Air.

Fire\Flaming\Resist Water.

Water\Icy\Resist Fire.

Air\Lightning\Resist Earth.

 

Creatures and interactions with items/spells should be consistent.  The Holy Hammer did not kill Banshees last time I played for example.  And one of the Venomous bows doesn't do poison damage every turn.

 

Tactical battles/city building/boring unit traits have already been covered by others above.

 

Weird/shifting outpost/city ZOC that makes me waste time rebuilding structures in my precious city queue.  

 

Bribe\hire modders to incorporate their mods into the vanilla game.  Hold forum contests for new quests/monsters/items/heroes etc.

 

Why do I have to go to a third-party site to get mods?!?  Where is the Hosten's Library on the FE:LH site?

 

Where is a mod manager, monster/creature editor, loot editor, etc.

 

Thanks for creating this thread... I feel much better. 

 

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April 25, 2014 1:01:40 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Wow NaytchSG. What a treasure trove of ideas. Emphatic +1!

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April 25, 2014 1:13:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
What I really don't like is the complete lack of depth in tactical battles. No LOS, terrain penalties/bonuses, flanking, morale, "give bonus to adjacent friendly unit" and so on. Stardock have been trying hard to keep the time you spend on battles down to a few minutes at most, and it's hurting because of that.

But it doesn't go well with how combat is handled on the strategic level anyway. Fun fights or difficult fights - I'm there! But most fights just get auto-resolved by me anyway. And really, fighting a whole game just to end it all in a 5-minute "siege" feels pathetic. I'm not spending 50% of a game playing battles, it's more like 5%. It's not a good number to be around, 25% would be better and having important fights fly by is unforgivable either way.

I don't think the lack of depth in tactical is tied to it being too short or the lack of flanking, LOS, and moral. Mostly it's due to bad AI, bad balance, and lack of unit roles. It seems designed around generic melee units smashing together, and that's all the AI knows how to do. They really need to ask themselves what they want to happen in tactical and rebalance units around that. A stronger negative relationship between attack and defense would force you to design and use different types of units. Right now you just build the strongest unit possible and throw them in waves. Defenders are only real specialized melee unit and the AI has no idea how to use them. You're supposed to lead with your high armor units so they absorb the first blows, not charge in with all your low armor units first. I would also like to see more teleportation skills and AI support for it, this is a serious flaw right now.

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April 25, 2014 2:55:41 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No multiplayer.

Otherwise, is a great game.

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April 25, 2014 5:36:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting bullyellis,
No multiplayer.

Otherwise, is a great game.

True, but watching some of the recent GalcivIII videos, it becomes quite clear that gameplay sacrifices have to be made in order to accommodate the multiplayer aspects.

In prefering singleplayer, I would rather they maximize gameplay.

 

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April 26, 2014 6:26:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Some bizarre UI issues (no way to mass cast enchantments on units in an army?)

The fact that the Dead AI is still wonky (there seems to be no comment from SD about this despite how blatant it is. Are they unable to solve it, or is it simply not cost efficient to do so?)

Diplomacy could use more options - being able to pay to make peace? Or being able to donate units/outposts or even cities? What about the trade goods from GalCiv2?

Lack of espionage - it seems weird that I can even see the income levels for each other sovereign, or the population size, etc.

But most importantly, the fact that the Dead AI is not functional. I really want my mod to become redundant.

Combat scale seems pretty off for me. It takes some suspension of disbelief for me to accept that that climactic battle takes place between fewer than 100 men, though granted we should be treating every ingame battle as several skirmishes within one larger battle...

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April 27, 2014 4:18:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
  • The name gerenator.  It's unbelievable that you have that crap random name generator so long after release.  I'll write you a list of nice sounding names for each faction, for free. 
  • And why do the new sovereigns from the DLC enter the game using those random names? That's unpolished; seriously.
  • The game is way too abstract for my tastes.  I like to imagine a semi plausible world, even though it has magic and dragons.  Why does a mace do double damage and then stun the unit the next activation?  The weapons and armour are just too unrealistic and it breaks my imagination. A better implementation of the mace idea is a double damage strike as a form of berserk attack that leaves you almost defenseless for a time.  That would match reality somehow, e.g. bare sark viking warriors.  Maces should simply be high attack value and slow weapons. Anyway, this is a topic for a whole thread.
  • I'd like to see differentiation between mages and fighters.  My mage can cast spells better by wielding a dagger to get +3 initiative. Huh?  My magi often end up wielding shields.  No, that should be a skill for the other paths.  Magi should be the best spell casters and they need more equipment that is unique to them.  They should be the ones with special amulets, etc to protect themselves instead of armour and shields.
  • Shrills. I just don't like these insectoid creatures as somehow connected with the four elements. It's just a clash of themes to me.  I'd rather these are strange insect hive mind colonies and leave elementals as a separate type of being who draw power from their element and magic.
  • The religion of the game world.  I don't get how there is a great religion around four nasty elemental lords.  I mush prefer something more traditional to a fantasy genre.  There is a Blood God.  There are powerful beings from other realms.  Let there be a fantasy pantheon with it's own unique style and creativity of more traditional gods.
  • Road building.  This should never be connected with a sovereign. Allow it just for an engineer style unit.  Call such a unit something medieval like guildsmen.  Let me every faction have such a unit.
  • Commander sovereigns just don't do it for me.  I would move some of their command abilities to the general area and make a multiclassed path that can wield magic while fighting with heavy armour and weapons.
  • An outpost should be like a smaller settlement than can harvest resources and do sensible things according to that scale of settlement.  Not have things like consulates.  Its should have things like a healing station, stables where cavalry get extra move as they can change horses, maybe an abbey for mana increase for a nearby shard.  Not armories that add +25% armour rating. How is that supposed to work.  Troops nearby suddenly get thicker armour until they step out of range?  Again, it add strategic choice but is so abstract that it makes absolutely no sense.
  • Let me construct outposts using those craftsmen units but take some time and not use up a pioneer.  It just makes better sense. 
  • When enemy sovereigns submit to me, I see that they are not using their equipment with any kind of sense.  If that's how they enter battle then this should be a high priority to fix.
  • Gilden. This is a faction that is skirting with dwarves as presented by Tolkien.  I understand that the world of Elemental is trying to be unique and fresh but to my tastes, it only partly succeeds in the images and themes that have been chosen.  I really hate that +50% mana penalty to tactical magic in exchange for higher magic resistance.  What is it supposed to simulate?  It means you would be mad to ever to make a mage with that race.

 

I like the game and play it a lot.  Sadly, I don't have time to mod it to address some of the above.  I would make a mod to bring the game to my vision if I had spare time.

Stardock is an awesome company which I have immense respect for.  There are so few companies that are run with that strong sense of integrity and honesty.  And it's still commercially viable as proven by how long it has lasted.

I still rate Fallen Enchantress and FE:LH as top fantasy games that are worthy successors to Master of Magic.  I give LH a 9 out of 10 for the fun factor.  I write the above as someone who loves the game as it is.

 

Cheers,

Sword

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April 27, 2014 8:03:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting GFireflyE,


Quoting bullyellis, reply 84No multiplayer.

Otherwise, is a great game.


True, but watching some of the recent GalcivIII videos, it becomes quite clear that gameplay sacrifices have to be made in order to accommodate the multiplayer aspects.

In prefering singleplayer, I would rather they maximize gameplay.

 

 

Examples?  I have not watched Galciv III videos.  Only thing I could think of is faction balancing, but games like this will never be starcraft, so I think that faction balancing isn't really a concern.

 

 

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April 27, 2014 8:21:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1. most of the faces/heads on the humanoid models.

 

2. the lack of character throughout, mainly in the user interface and faction designs.*

 

3. that the rng seed isnt saved.

 

 

addition:*just because everything is made of "squares" doesnt mean it has to look and feel like it.

 

still, great game.

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April 28, 2014 9:32:37 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There are two things in particular about FE:LH that bother me: 

 

1.)  The lack of epic-ness (especially in the late game).  As others have said, it's difficult to have this epic feel when you have "huge cities" of just a few thousand citizens, and "mighty battles" between armies consisting of just 20-30 soldiers.  It's particularly bizarre when contrasted against the (satisfyingly large) size of the maps involved. 

2.)  The art style.  Not that it's bad, but it's never been my favorite.  There's just something about it that hurts immersion/atmosphere.  Maybe I just really like that "stock fantasy" look. 

 

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April 29, 2014 8:47:56 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My list:

 

- Buildings built on map with no other gameplay purpose then "cheesy" city snaking for ressource grab or fast influence steering in one direction only(I'd prefer 1 tile per city, or a maximum of 4 tiles a city, then building real influence buildings would really mather too, and connecting Your empire could potentially be a long and painfull process).

- No penalties for obstacles or range on bows in tactical combat.

- No ships, naval hero traits, sea quests, ports, ship yard buildings or sea monsters.

- No city siege game mechanics.

- No Multiplayer.

- Automatically built roads. This is a lost opportunity making pioneers more vital, and the trade system more of an investment. A system With roads built by pioneers, upkeep cost per tile with a road and trade revenue increasing if cities are connected (and also based on the gildars they are making, if they are towns or citadels etc.) would greatly improve the depth of empire building strategy. The same would the need to protect the trade routes, the pioneers working and the road tiles themselves from roaming monsters and faction enemy raiding parties..

 

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April 29, 2014 9:23:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Strange unnatural map shapes.

No naval game.Sea is pointless.

Factions all look human apart from Quendar.

Diplomacy is erratic with poor A.I with some factions thinking it a good strategy to have a 8 front war. It makes it easier for the player that it should be.What happened to the CG2 A.I diplomacy which would try to focus on one enemy?

Linear tech trees with no random elements.Why do these fantasy and sci fi games continue to have linear trees? This is not a static history ala Civ.

Some hero descriptions are rushed and bland.

Lacking a real siege mechanic.

Battles look small and never matched the early concept art which looked great.

 

 

 

 

 

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April 29, 2014 11:37:24 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NorsemanViking,
My list:

- Buildings built on map with no other gameplay purpose then "cheesy" city snaking for ressource grab or fast influence steering in one direction only(I'd prefer 1 tile per city, or a maximum of 4 tiles a city, then building real influence buildings would really mather too, and connecting Your empire could potentially be a long and painfull process).
 

I wish to expand on this thought a bit, as others have expressed dislike towards multi-tile cities; though I for one do not understand why as I find multi-tile cities to be one of my favorite aspects about the game and this is a run-on sentence and I am sad to see the mechanic leave in the initial discussions for the release of E15.

  1. First, to snake, you need to have manual building placement enabled. For any player who does not like to snake, why not just turn manual building placement off?? Or, to rephrase the question, what is driving players to play with manual placement on and yet still complain when they are able to abuse this feature?
  2. Second, without Parrotmath's snaking mod, I wholehearted agree that snaking becomes exceedingly cheesy, with it's only purpose being to strategically cut of the AI at bottleneck locations. For any player who does not play with Parrotmath's snaking mod, refer to point 1.
  3. With manual placement on and Parrotmath's snaking mod active, snaking becomes an emersive experience if not abused. Build out to rivers and forests for additional benefits. With Parrotmath's swamp mod, build out towards swamps for additional benefits. With Parrotmath's Bridge mod, build out across rivers for additional benefits. You see a recurring theme. In addition, this is no advantage to the player as the AI does expand and build these structures too.
  4. Why wouldn't SD simply hardcode Parrotmath's snaking mod into the manual placement option?? (I suppose this question would be asked with respect to the answers from point 1)
  5. If SD did hardecode Parrotmath's snaking mod, it opens up a DLC oppertunity, there could be other resources, or structures, or landmarks introduced into the game where players would want to creatively design towards. For example:
    1. The FE resource that granted influence could be reintroduced to grant fame, but only if built within a city.
    2. Forests could be harvested. Yes, there is a logging camp chain, but what if you could set a temporary 'camp' instead? You receive bonus production and after 10 turns the forest is consumed.
  6. There is a 'cheesy' aspect when players use snaking cities as travelling conduits and passage doorways. This was partially mitigated back when LH beta 0.4 (i think), but could be further restricted. I am intrigued by NorsemanViking's 'maximum tile' idea however 4 tiles is far too small. 9 Tiles may even be too small considering the available buildings BUT this could be a soltion towards increasing mid-late game difficultly.
    1. Having to choose your buildings and not being able to build all your buildings forces the player (and AI) to make smart decisions.
    2. There could be an 'expansion' chain of buildings that unlocks with different techs. The first tech gives a building that allows you to expand from your base 4 tiles to 6 tiles. Another tech could unlock the second building upgrade that allows you to expand from 6 tiles to 9 tiles. The third late game tech would allow you to expand from 9 tiles to 12 tiles. (numbers are dependant on ensuring a decent restriction of buildings, while still allowing for a wonder...)
    3. Sure it's artificial. But so is simply restricting city expansion altogether.
    4. Would this make the game too complex? I don't think so. A light blue box could sillohette the city when build is selected showing all possible build tiles. If you've reached your limit, you need to build within the confines because your city cannot support the 'urban sprawl' yet. It's 'realistic' in a certain sort of way...

Thoughts?

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May 4, 2014 10:59:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

1) Leveling units feels useless at the moment.

Even worse, the great potential of letting uints learn new skills as they are getting more experienced is unused.

 

2) The interface is bad

 

3) Its not possible to re-equip units with new equipment. That makes researching new equipment feel really unrewarding.

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May 4, 2014 1:59:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Music sucks more than any game I have ever played.  A 3 minute tune repeated for one hours is total fail.

800 turn game design.  What were they thinking?  My games are over in 250 turns.  I never get to a level five city because the game is over before they can grow that far.  Redesign the game to go 400 turns.

No mid game units.  My first stack of militia go all the way through what would be the mid game, because the economic model can not support more than one stack.  Then my research and unrest suppression reach full speed, and I can afford to build end game units.  

Tax options are fail.   They jump 20% per change.   This should be replaced with 10% change options.  It's simple math.  Would you want the IRS to operate this way?

 

 

 

 

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May 6, 2014 5:00:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

What do I like the LEAST about LH:

  1. The graphics are childish, cartoonish and plainly ugly
  2. AI is in a perpetual Alliance pact with Dragons and every other monster out there
  3. Diplomacy is almost linear. Peace, Non-agression, Alliance. Very creative!
  4. AI doesn't use half of the game features. (Outposts, unrest...)
  5. Battlefields lack realism, line of sight, blockable terrain, etc.
  6. Skaths!!!!!! The patrolling three-skath group is invincible, almost impossible to beat with a spearmen and hero.
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May 8, 2014 7:25:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I dislike not being able to heal your champions unless you find the odd potion. I would like to be able to build a hospital, just one per faction, where you can send your injured champions to heal and recuperate. The length of recuperation would depend on the severity of the injury. While they are away from the front line recuperating you should not have access to their strategic or tactical spells.

 

I do not like the fact that you can just stroll into an enemy settlement irrespective of the size and level of that settlement and fight the units stationed there. The larger the settlement the more difficult it should be to get into and this should definitely apply to level 4 or 5 fortresses with castles etc. and I think this would make the later game more challenging. Battles outside the walls and then  fighting inside are a possibility. Another option would be to lay seige to a settlement for a number of turns dependent of the level of that settlement before you can attack. Top level fortresses could be bombarded with trebuchets and catapults to destroy fortifications before you get inside the castle.

 

Research needs spicing up as it is too easy to get all the techs. Make research more expensive so the gamer does not have access to all the techs until later in the game. Each of the factions should have more faction specific techs. How about adding powerful spells that need to be researched with each faction having spells the others will not have access to.

 

The option to sometimes (randomly) capture an enemy champion after winning a tactical battle would add another element to the game. I could then ransom the champion for gilders, crystal, metal etc. or offer him a wad of cash to fight for me (he/she is a mercenary !!). Of course I would also lose a champion from time to time but hey, that's all part of the game.

 

But PLEASE no more bunny slippers or lollipops. GRRRRRRRRRR.

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May 8, 2014 9:44:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Darkstare,
What do I like the LEAST about LH:


The graphics are childish, cartoonish and plainly ugly

I've seen this comment by many (so I'm not picking on you). I am ever so surprised many out there do not like the graphic style used. The 'childish and cartoonish' style, imo, really makes the game feel more fantasy and more alive.

It's going to be the second most important thing I will miss in the next iteration of the game. (The first is going back to single-tile citys. Big mistake imo.)

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May 10, 2014 2:52:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

The new DLC. I't crashes every game I try. Would be great if it all worked but it does not.

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May 10, 2014 9:42:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Barrynor,
Units are bland. You end up with swordsmen with the best sword, pikemen with the best pike, archers with the best bow... axeman with the best axe... and then you find a combo that works, usually heavy infantry with a shield and a sword or hammer, and youll just mass produce these.

 

(Bad faction uniqueness)

This. Remind me how nice if Heroes 5 can build your own town, train your own units and cast global spells.... (oh well...)

Empires doesn't have any great difference in buildings compare to Kingdoms. Conquering the other races city dont give you so much advantages. There are just giving bonus, no race unique buildings that produce race unique units. Race specific Wonder etc. 

 

 

Quoting jimclin,
800 turn game design.  What were they thinking?  My games are over in 250 turns.  I never get to a level five city because the game is over before they can grow that far.  Redesign the game to go 400 turns.

(Slow pacing / repetitive nature)

Super agree with this as well -  insanely slow pacing /repetitive and boring research / leveling every game. Quests DLC seems to be the same thing every game as well - feel like a chore

 

 

Slow Patching

I don't want to criticize Stardock, they work hard on LH. But IF you are the earliest Stardock Fan or lurking supporter you will understand what I mean, games like GC2 receive a lot more post-release love and focus than LH. Perhaps the studio expand too fast and they are doing so many other games at the same time.    

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