War of Magic, should it be brought back?

By on December 7, 2013 7:23:57 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
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Greetings!

For those of you not familiar with our Elemental game universe here it is in brief:

Elemental is a fantasy world made up of many different civilizations vying for control the world. There is a great deal of history and lore to tap into and we decided to begin making games in this world back with 2010s release of War of Magic.  Unfortunately, when it came out, it was pretty buggy and got some negative reviews. We fixed the bugs but the game itself was still pretty meh.

So in 2012, we released the second game in the Elemental universe called Fallen Enchantress which was good and we're pretty proud of that game.  We followed it up with an expansion pack called Legendary Heroes that further refined the Fallen Enchantress game mechanics.

We do intend to follow Fallen Enchantress with a third strategy game in the Elemental universe but it'll be very different from either War of Magic or Fallen Enchantress as it focuses largely on, well I can't really go into that yet. 

When Fallen Enchantress was released, we discontinued War of Magic. I don't think it's available for sale anywhere anymore.  My question is, would anyone be interested in us revisiting War of Magic in the future to release a kind of "War of Magic: Director's Cut" or something where we refined the WOM game design, updated the visuals.

WOM had some interesting game mechanics such as a pretty big emphasis on a dynasty system and a number of other distinctive mechanics that could be refined further.

Let us know what you think. Would we be opening up "old wounds" or would be restoring faith to those who believed in the original "not-MOM" concept?

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December 7, 2013 7:35:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It is up to you.

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December 7, 2013 7:41:17 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My memory isn't what it used to be, so if I'm misremembering my apologies and please to correct me...

I'd love to see (and buy) a new&improved WOM that has:

1: the old dynasty system (including children taking over if original Sov dies)

2: the old essence where we have a 'pool' of essence that we can expend to:

-found subsequent cities, revitalizing the land (for Kingdoms, maybe for Empires they'd expend essence to counter revitalization?)

-imbue champions with spellcasting ability (most champs didn't have this)

-power spells (giving us the choice of either having lots of cities and/or spellcasting champions but relatively low powered Sov. spellcasting, or having relatively few cities and/or spellcasting champions but relatively powerful Sov. spellcasting.

I never cared for the current 'essence as a function of city location', I much prefer the original concept.

I'd also like to see more emphasis on the 'revitalizing the land' bit -- it is pretty unique amongst the genre and has pretty much been kicked to the curb.  For example, Empires would do better on the tainted (dark) lands (better resource yield) while Kingdoms do better on the revitalized land.  This would give reason for Kingdoms to expend essence to revitalize and make the 'dark/green' land thing more than the mere (albeit gorgeous) eye candy it now is -- the artwork is so gorgeous that it merits being more than decoration.

So assuming how it's done, put me down for a heck yes!

Thanks for considering this Frog

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December 7, 2013 7:47:10 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I never had the opportunity to play WoM. From the videos that I did see from it I thought it was an interesting approach to a game and I see a great game underneath the hood of that framework.

Since this is a poll question, I would be interested in a WoM like experience.

But, in a light and listening what people were saying here, what kind of experience of a game are you looking for... would it be a 4x game, or would it be a randomized map Empire RPG?

Curious what types of ideas you have to move this type of title forward.

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December 7, 2013 7:56:02 PM from Brad Wardell's Little Tiny Frogs Brad Wardell's Little Tiny Frogs

If you make it cloth map only (with cloth map tactical battles) then yes.

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December 7, 2013 7:56:37 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

WOM allowed bigger unit size increases which helped immersion vs the current very small unit size increase from new technologies.  I also liked the dynasty system.

So if you updated the visuals and kept the above two features I would certainly buy the "Director's Cut of WOM".

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December 7, 2013 8:17:28 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I loved the dynasty system, my only gripe was you could never marry the leader of another faction or remarry if your spouse died.(If you do go back to EWOM PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix this)

I would not mind seeing EWOM redone, however you will have to pay careful attention to avoid plotholes or retcons, but it is something I WILL buy. And I am also curious to see where the Elemental Universe is heading.

 

Perhaps for this directors cut, we can tell the Elemental story from the perspective of fallen empire?

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December 7, 2013 8:25:33 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Yes but only if you think the return on investment is worth it and if it doesn't take development resources away from future GalCiv 3 expansions

 

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December 7, 2013 8:54:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

No thanks. I played WoM a lot and LH is just better in every way. There is no reason to revisit it. Spend the effort on a dlc or something.

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December 7, 2013 9:02:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Absolutely yes.  If you use the new Nitrous engine, hexes, larger armies, larger tactical battles, LOS target obstacle protection either through reduced chance to hit or increased protection, Improved Dynasty system.  Multipath research depending on the type of city type would make for specialized game play as well; Town for civilization, Fortress for War, and Conclaves for Magic.  Limit magic to only mage classes and buff non mage classes so that there is more differentiation between classes to make each class unique and not homogenized by the fact you can boost magic by buying books or stealing spellbook by consuming heroes.  Make non magic classes matter as heroes.

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December 7, 2013 9:44:14 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I haven't played WOM for a long time.  I guess that is because the game was just MEH.  Having said that, a hex map, not being automatically at war with everyone. (I don't know if you guys fixed this, but it seems to me that every one of the handful of times I played everyone declared war almost right away.)

Well you guys know how to make a game.  Besides WOM they all rock.  And this is basically a WOM reboot you are talking about correct?

I would say that GC3 should be focus now and only if you have resources that aren't needed there.  Otherwise wait until GC3 is done.

Bottom line is I would pay for a reboot.

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December 7, 2013 11:03:45 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I have fond memories of the dynasty system, minor civilizations, and wandering heroes, but everything else about that game stink, stank, stunk!   A little tweak here and a little tweak there will not fix this game.  It took you three years to fix EWOM the first time (FE then LH).  Are you planning on starting from LH then adding back in the dynasty system and minor civilizations, etc?  If so, that might work.  If you're planning on fixing EWOM by starting from EWOM, then that's not going to work unless you're willing to do three more years of design, development, testing, etc.

P.S.  What are some of the other mechanics you thought were interesting?  We're talking a long time ago so I might have forgotten.

 

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December 7, 2013 11:54:13 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would love to see WOM be remade after the improvements of FE. I still install it from time to time. However, I personally think the diplomancy system would need to be improved quite a bit to handle the dynasty system. The dynasty system is far too interesting to be carried by the weak shoulders of the current Fallen Enchantress model. Even after the 1.5 system improvements.

*clairification*

Right now, I think, it is a bit too easy to buy a Diplomatic Victory. While I know that diplomacy systems are very hard to create, I would like that if it could move away from X treaty is worth Y gold or a barter equivalent. I should specify that I am only talking in relation to diplomatic relations; I think the current system of trading resources is fine. If I remember correctly in Master of Magic it did not matter what you gave the AI the only thing the AI cared about is that you traded every 10 turns. Trading more than once in 10 turns did not help you. Improving on this system, the AI could expect a certain level of trades in their favor in order to consider if improving relations is warranted. This could be visible to the player if you want. Then once the player earns the appropriate level the AI could offer some perks. Here are some examples I'm thinking of:

Friendly -

Ally possible

 

Warm -

Defensive Pact possible

 

Neutral -

will trade gold, horses and crystal

Will allow peace treaties

Marriage possible

 

Cool - 

Trade Embargo

Sons and daughters that were married to this faction are put in dungeon (loose diplo bonuses during this time)

Closed borders

Hate -

Family members in this factions custody are immediately executed, or exiled from the sovereigns lands if that seems a bit harsh. 

Closed borders

 

 

On a side note: As a write this my wife thinks she should have the option to marry the sons off for diplo bonuses instead of just the daughters. I think you should be able to sell your wife for diplo...oww umm nevermind. 

 

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December 8, 2013 12:56:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I also have some enjoyable memories of WOM, and would like an improved re-visit (dynasty, minor civs, AND extra land types)

harpo

 

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December 8, 2013 12:59:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Never played WoM, was looking forward to it when it was in development but when after it came out with all the reviews I never got round to trying it.

I don't see why you'd go back there when you have a great game in FE:LH.  Better off creating another FE expansion, or even FE2.... and add Dynasties to FE.... or minor factions or air units, naval, wandering heroes etc.

I'd sign up for FE2 or another FE expansion tomorrow but have little interest in WoM directors cut.

Cheers.

 

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December 8, 2013 2:16:29 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

i d never thought i d write the following but between the upcomming Age of Wonders III (which looks absolutely amazing), the third fantasy strategy game you are already working on, Sovereignity (from the Panzer Corps-which was awesome- studio), Warlock 2 (warlock 1 was pretty fun though i prefered Legendary Heroes - i know for many it was the other way around though) and Endless Legends (personally i thought Endless Space was really meh and dont expect much from this other than fancy graphics and streamlined gameplay ... but i know others disagree ) ... i dunno if could find interest in another fantasy TBS unless it does things drastically different than the others.

one thing i would really like to see would be a fantasy TBS that played more like the Total War series, except with turn based combat. With "plays more like the total war series" mind you  i m talking medieval 2 , not the Empire and Rome 2 crap they released recently. what i m talking about is:

1. a fixed fantasy huge world, no randomisation. While i love randomisation a fixed well designed fantasy world also has things you just cant do (well) with randomisation: for example much more diverse factions that can be balanced around the terrain they start in.you could also do more with spionage, religion, diplomacy etc. etc. .... maybe its rose-tinted glasses but i have really fond memories of medievial:total war 2 and am really sad how this series went to ****

i never played Elemental: War of Magic but the dynasties things sounds like something out of medieval 2 i also enjoyed.

2. HUGE scale battles - unfortunately not a single fantasy turn based game i m aware of that features proper battles. Whethers its Master of Magic, Age of Wonders, Elemental or whatever .... battles are fought between 6-60 guys on each side - a far cry from the armies of thousands i d love to see clash =/

 

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December 8, 2013 3:01:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I played E:wom last summer and compared it to FE, it was still garbage at the last patch.

You've spent years improving on E:wom to reach FE:LH, which is borderline great. The only reason to do an E:wom release would be so people can see how bad it was, because that will be what people will think. The only redeeming feature of E:wom compared to FE:LH is the dynasty system. You'd be far better off building a DLC pack with that in the game for FE:LH instead.

I can totally understand wanting to go back in time to "do it right", but that's what you did with FE and FE:LH. You re-did it the right way. FE:LH is an E:wom "director's cut" years in the making.

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December 8, 2013 4:24:59 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

thinking furthter upon the question, I would tend to agree with heavenfall regarding the DLC dynasties idea, preferably for BOTH fe & lh

harpo

 

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December 8, 2013 5:17:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It is up to StarDock. However, if it is turn out to be at the same level of FE:LH, then I won't buy it.

And I think Devs should fix the current issue first, before releasing a new game or new DLCs. Otherwise it is very likely the new stuffs will suffer the same problem/fate as its predecessors.

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December 8, 2013 6:02:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Give Legendary Heroes a War of Magic make-over, and release it as either an expansion entitled "Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary War"; or as a stand-alone entitled just "Elemental: Collectors Edition".  Toss in multi-player and call it "Elemental: Tome of Masters".

Also, polish the hell out of it, and tighten up modding support.

I'll buy it, and I'm a man of my word.

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December 8, 2013 6:28:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting cardinaldirection,

Give Legendary Heroes a War of Magic make-over, and release it as either an expansion entitled "Elemental: Fallen Enchantress - Legendary War"; or as a stand-alone entitled just "Elemental: Collectors Edition".  Toss in multi-player and call it "Elemental: Tome of Masters".

Also, polish the hell out of it, and tighten up modding support.

I'll buy it, and I'm a man of my word.

Same thing.

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December 8, 2013 7:08:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd love to play War of Magic 2, not Director's Cut of the first one.

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December 8, 2013 7:32:16 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'd recommend not to and move on. You have some great stuff going, stick to it. WoM flopped, leave it behind. So much effort put into repairing your reputation after it, I'd hate to see it go to waste.

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December 8, 2013 9:12:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Fix crashes in Ewom, add some content from FE LH for free, some as dlc = pure win for SD ($$$) and for us  (fans). 

New beta for all owners of Ewom, FE, FE LH. For FE, FE LH owners huge discount (EWom Remastered version). For Ewom owners new version for free ?

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December 8, 2013 9:54:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I say yes.

 

The last I heard, the LH DLC's were selling well, so there is still substantial interest in a similar game.

You already have the foundation/structure in place, so development cost will be much lower than starting from scratch.

SD has a loyal customer base that will buy anything that's produced, including purchasing DLC's to support the game.

It will be an substantial cash cow that can be milked for years!

 

 

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