Dead World DLC - Death Worship + Undead is Ridiculous

By on December 7, 2013 4:21:41 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Alkeena

Join Date 01/2013
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Death Worship gives the infection spell to all of your heroes.  Infection spreads all negative effects applied to an infected target to the entire army of the target.  Negative effects propagate immediately and as best I can tell there is NO magic defense check on the any propagated effects...It lasts for the duration of the battle.

All Undead units have Terror, which causes the target to lose it's next turn.

Strategy to win every engagement ever (including epics when using starting units...):  2x mages, whole bunch of spearmen.  First mage shadowbolts twice to reduce magic resist of the weakest magic def unit on the opposite team (to make sure infection/terror don't fail).  Second mage casts infection, which requires a turn to prep.  One of your undead spearmen then casts Terror on the infected unit.  The ENTIRE opposing team is locked down for the rest of the fight and will be unable of doing anything at all.  Just make sure to keep reapplying terror to the infected unit while you use spearmen to finish off the rest of the army because they can still counter attack.

I had to restart a match I'd dumped 4 hours into (and subsequently delete my custom race) when I realized it was pointless to even bother continuing--I was guaranteed to win literally every single tactical encounter using nothing but my starting units and it had become a tedious jaunt to the finish line.

 

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December 7, 2013 6:42:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Honestly, two mages will trivialize just about any encounter using your strat or not. The AI cannot use magic to the same effect that a human can and many monster packs don't have the numbers pose much threat to a mage. That being said, Terror could be balanced by lowering the success rate, setting the cooldown to 99 (so you can use it once per turn for each unit), and by having some units being immune to it such as undead, elementals, etc... 

This suggestions are easily modded if Stardock doesn't want to balance this spell considering that it is a DLC spell and that always opens a can of worms.

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December 7, 2013 7:36:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Just self restrict yourself from using those tactics, and find a different way to win with that faction. For example, I self restrict myself from using beastmaster during the early game.

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December 7, 2013 10:31:43 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Illauna,

Honestly, two mages will trivialize just about any encounter using your strat or not. The AI cannot use magic to the same effect that a human can and many monster packs don't have the numbers pose much threat to a mage. That being said, Terror could be balanced by lowering the success rate, setting the cooldown to 99 (so you can use it once per turn for each unit), and by having some units being immune to it such as undead, elementals, etc... 

This suggestions are easily modded if Stardock doesn't want to balance this spell considering that it is a DLC spell and that always opens a can of worms.

Quoting Borg999,

Just self restrict yourself from using those tactics, and find a different way to win with that faction. For example, I self restrict myself from using beastmaster during the early game.

True and valid points, especially those on self restriction.

The kicker is that it doesn't require two mages at all though.  I don't think shadowbolt can miss so magic aptitude doesn't matter there--it also only costs like 8 (I think?) mana.  It's also not strictly necessary, rather it simply guarantees success. 

Both infection and terror are free to use and basically faction wide abilities though.  So realistically you could get away with a single hero of any variety coupled with an undead army and zero mana, you'll just have less than 100% success rate.

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December 7, 2013 12:30:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

First off, I really cannot say that I'm particularly concerned about the balance of custom factions (or any lack thereof). It is very easy to create a faction which is significantly stronger than the default ones, just as it's easy to create a custom sovereign who is much better than the default sovereigns.

Also, Shadowbolt costs 18 mana before reductions, not 8 (although you might be able to get it down to 8, since just by being a Mage you get a 25% reduction in tactical spell costs, and you can improve that with Affinity and some items). Infection, however, does only cost 8 mana. Nor will casting Shadowbolt on a target guarantee that any spell takes effect - while it will make it more likely to take effect, there is a minimum resistance chance somewhere around 5% even for targets with no spell resistance, and trained units typically lack the spell mastery to push it to that minimum chance even if they are facing a zero-resistance target.

I have said it before in other threads about these kinds of things, but if something isn't fun in a game, just don't do it. Nothing in the game is forcing you to do anything, and it's not like this trick with infection is particularly different from just going in with a number of undead units at least equal in size to the army you're facing and terrorizing all but the weakest, then killing off the enemies one-by-one to slowly free up units from terror duty so that they can slowly dogpile frightened enemies. Incidentally, a Mage is the best champion type to support that kind of strategy, too, because a good damage Mage can kill (or nearly kill) one or more units per cast, while an undead summoner Mage (namely, your Sovereign, since good luck getting another undead champion) can summon up an extra unit and then go terrorize something, and that one summoned unit can be the one unit beyond the enemy army size which slowly whittles down that first terrorized enemy. Infection just allows you to do the same thing, but it makes it faster because you can have just one or two units on Terror duty while everyone else beats down the enemy.

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December 7, 2013 3:51:18 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Mages are the most powerful class, that has been known since about the time the game came out.

Just don't play with mages and a surprising number of instant win scenarios disappear immediately.

Why bother with using terror on anything if you can just -1 the casting time off of Titan's Breath?

If they are knocked down, they have to waste a turn standing back up again.

That gives you the time to get another spell off.  With Air magic you are going to be able to haste yourself too.

You can lock down an entire enemy army with just the 1 mage.

If you have good enough initiative, you can solo that whole army with the 1 mage.

No units needed to even kill the enemy force with.

The tactic you pointed out is pretty "fair" in comparison with other things mages can do.

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January 3, 2014 12:27:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Mage are super-powerful when leveled yes. As a custom race that has quest maps, and uses a warlock "Men" hero, I was up to level 20 in no-time.  I have Initiative of 55 and -1 casting time so every fight starts with me clicking Horrific Wail and it immediately being cast (I even get the turn after that, effectively 3 turns in  row when a fight starts).

 

Horrific wail hits for 173 every time.  The only thing that doesn't immediately die are magic immune creatures - which I can kill with thunder-strike teleport because it has no immunity check like shadowbolt.

 

But I caution against assuming mages are the most powerful, I'd argue defenders are right up there.  A defender with Discipline, and some good equipment/traits is a beast and trivializes the games even more so than mages.  In about half the time or even less than that when compared to the mage above, I had a defender with around 60 attack, 2 counter attacks, heal and first aid. His defence was around 90, and spell resist was 98.

It was even easier than the mage because I could auto-resolve every battle.  Throw in a few knight units and I would auto resolve with less than 10 hp lost when fighting deadly/epic stacks. I could never do that with a mage who had 50+ dodge, mana shield, instant-map-clear horrific wail and mana-blasts for 15,000+ (yes, 15 thousand and higher) by the end of the game.

 

 

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January 3, 2014 3:19:02 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums
Just slays you, doesn't it?
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January 3, 2014 4:30:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Illauna,

Honestly, two mages will trivialize just about any encounter using your strat or not.

yeah...

 

this strat requir0e TWO mages, which cast several spells each... and they have a bunch of tanks too...

 

i think it doesnt exist a combination of 2 mages casting several spoells while being covered by tanks that doesnt kill any enemy

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January 8, 2014 11:28:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It's a powerful strategy. I suppose I share the skepticism that it is game breaking, however.

Infection + graveseal + curse with archers is still better, isn't it? An army of archers always getting 100% armor piercing critical hits is almost invincible.

Also one mage with high spell mastery and high initiative could do either graveseal strategy alone.

In conclusion, Death Worship is what's amazing, right?

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January 10, 2014 11:47:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,

Just slays you, doesn't it?

 

It does!! How can some mouth breathing neck beard be superior to my super smart gets-all-the-girls dress-wearing pew-pewer!?!?! SO MAD!

I actually love the different experience... I tried more recently with that super-crit assassin type, the only problem is magic and high accuracy. The assassin has around 115 dodge (lucky, assassin gear, buffs, etc) but the odd champion or buffed unit will hit him (playing on challenging) and then he loses half his health. Or God forbid someone hits him with a spell! CRUMPLE

 

I love this game. Need more DLC pls - maybe a big one. 29.99 for way more spells, items, updated skill trees, faction/hero traits (so that rogues aren't using shields? ) maps, quests etc?

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