Frogboy Appreciation Thread

By on November 30, 2013 10:06:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Primal_Savage

Join Date 07/2013
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In light of recent developments, I just wanted to share my appreciation for what Frogboy has done for this game and its AI. He certainly is not alone working on this outstanding game (Kudos to everyone @ Stardock), but he's one of the few that has maintained an open dialog w/ the gamers and for that I thank you. I wish you the best w/ GalCiv III AI, although I wish you would keep participating, in some ways, to LH AI development.  

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November 30, 2013 10:27:52 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ironic - in the original non-Morissette sense - that it should come to this the same week that Ghostcrawler left Blizzard.

This is why gamers can't have nice things... When someone from the company reaches out with explanations we crucify them as symbolic representatives of the flaws we perceive in the game (which might not even be real).

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November 30, 2013 10:52:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Note, it is still a very small percentage of "us".   Most of the LH gamers are very happy with the improvements.  But there can be 1000s of people happy, and just a few negative comments which don't represent the majority that sink the ship.  Players are not an amorphous blob, but they still get considered as one group.

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November 30, 2013 10:52:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting elmuneco235,

Ironic - in the original non-Morissette sense - that it should come to this the same week that Ghostcrawler left Blizzard.

This is why gamers can't have nice things... When someone from the company reaches out with explanations we crucify them as symbolic representatives of the flaws we perceive in the game (which might not even be real).

 

The fact that Diablo 3 PC version is still Online DRM only game while spewing stuffs like "The game is designed for online only" where putting offline mode for console version makes me not feeling any sympathy.

It was inevitable that after 10 years of all of DRMs, lies, ignorance and arrogance, the relationship between the gamer and publisher/developer is, in short, destroyed and only doubts and blames left which are pretty deserved and expected result.

 

That said, one of the reasons recent RSI hiccups was that quite a lot of people put their money on the company due to a sole promise that the Star Citizen will be a 'PC game only'. Reactions to recent interviews and dev post's responses show there is really no more faith left from PC gamers in general toward pretty much any publishers/developers. And regardless of the spins, this is 100% publisher/developer's fault from the start.

 

I don't say 'gamers can't have nice things' because the gamers really have not gotten any nice things since 2000s aside from Valve.

 

Not to mention a lot of problems were caused by the fact that we do not have (and will not have ) modding tools for this game. Say Diplomacy is broken (seriously I disagree diplomacy is broken, and I think this is actually the best well-finished feature for Elemental compared to a lot of half-finished features we have), then someone could had fixed it.... except we do not have any necessary tools to do so.

Notice, modding tools were also the promise when Elemental was introduced. It did not happen, Stardock decided to not put effort in it. As obvious, expected result, this game really has limited future and the potential has been killed the moment Brad said there will be no further modding support.

 

Only companies that understand the power of user created content are Valve, Bethesda, and Mojang. Both Valve and Mojang are monetizing user contents well, making massive profits. But it will take a really long time for other companies' to catch the profit because the trust is completely destroyed long since.

 

That said, Brad and Stardock indeed tried very hard to revive the franchise. Except, there were a lot of bad decisions made after Elemental bombed, pretty much nailed the coffin other than selling some small DLCs, and that hammering nailing into the coffin happened rather a long time ago.

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November 30, 2013 11:06:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

LMAO, put up an appreciation thread for someone and get into philosophical debate... Someone's missing the intent of this thread.

 

 

 

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December 1, 2013 12:20:27 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I'm not really sure but FE:LH is pretty fun game, thank you for your efforts frogboy.

I've been itching for something like this since Ogre Battle64. And I waited for so damn long since after i beat that n64 game

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December 1, 2013 8:21:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I had a lot of good times playing FE and LH.

 

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December 1, 2013 8:46:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


I have just found this game. To me it is very enjoyable and I have no complaints about it. It looks great, has a lot of variety and overall I think I received a great value for my money. Perhaps after 1500 hous of play I will think different but that will be unrealistic of me also. I am not looking for a game to last my entire life and always be 'fresh, new and challanging' every time I play it. That game will never exist.

This game however is a blast and I hope whoever designed it has a few more ideas for future games because they seem to be pretty damn good at it.  

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December 1, 2013 10:29:58 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

LH is the first game since Dragon Age: Origins that I've put more than fifty hours in to. With my limited time, there are only a handful of games I feel compelled to play more than a dozen hours, and this was one of them. 

 

To me, especially considering that I got it for free, that makes me a fan for life. I don't know of another company I respect as much as I respect Brad and Stardock. The naysayers are a small, dumb-as-rocks minority. 

 

I love you guys!

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December 1, 2013 10:41:22 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Frogboy, CEO: Your leadership of SD in the gaming arena, particularly related to the Elemental franchise (now Legendary Heroes) is a shining example of the best in managing the relationships between gamers (consumers) and the corporate team that "makes it so." You example should be the role model for all CEOs all around the world. All the best!

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December 1, 2013 11:25:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting StevenAus,

Note, it is still a very small percentage of "us".   Most of the LH gamers are very happy with the improvements.  But there can be 1000s of people happy, and just a few negative comments which don't represent the majority that sink the ship.  Players are not an amorphous blob, but they still get considered as one group.

 

One can also make negative coments while being happy, out of a desire to wish it even better.

 

LH is good and fun, though it has some flaws.

 

If I wasn't happy at all, I'd just play and bother with something else.

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December 1, 2013 1:40:11 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, I see what you mean.

I do agree that for the things that we like, we like if they can be improved even more.  But I guess passion has been driving Frogboy, and that is very succeptible to exactly what the form is of comments.  But maybe he has been pushing himself too hard and is suffering a bit of burnout from doing too much of LH in his spare time.

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December 1, 2013 6:19:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Seems the sort of thread where if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

I still have a LH wishlist but I'm impressed with how much Stardock have improved the game and the AI, and continue to improve it. Many companies wouldn't.

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December 1, 2013 8:24:46 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Don't listen to them.. your ego is big enough.  They are tempting you with the vice of pride.

 

No honestly though, Not a huge fan of the end result of LH.. its not a bad game It's just not for me. I stick around because Frogboy is a rarity in that he continues to share his insight and opinions with the community. Even if i disagree with him on a great many things a person in his position who is willing to continue a dialogue with his fans AND detractors is a welcome change from the radio silence of most in the industry.

 

p.s. That and he hasn't banned me YET.

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December 1, 2013 10:31:04 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I retired early, but I retired poor. So, I really appreciate the value that FE/FE:LH have brought me. Let's compare:

1. If I buy a movie that I watch 5 times, it works out to about 2 dollars per hour for my entertainment dollar.

2. Between FE and FE:LH, I have around 1000 hours of play time. If I had paid full retail, that works out to about 4 cents per hour. However, I got the game for free, so it didn't even cost me that much! Furthermore, it actually has made me money because it filled up enough of my leisure time that I dropped my World of Warcraft subscription, saving me over 100 dollars so far.

But beyond the value is the sheer pleasure of playing the game. The different heroes, factions, and magic schools keep me wanting to try new things, new combinations. If I need to be somewhere, I am sure to set a timer because hours just melt away.

 

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December 1, 2013 10:43:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes, I really enjoy the game, despite its flaws.  And it has improved immeasurably since the first release.

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December 2, 2013 2:06:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I've clocked in 219 hours in Legendary Heroes.  The only other game that occupied my time in any comparable way was Civ V (142 hours on record).  I just started a new game this weekend and clearly my appetite for this game hasn't be satiated.  I really appreciate all the updates, it's definitely one of the reasons why I keep playing the game.  The experience gets better and better.  Thanks!

 

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December 2, 2013 4:49:10 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It currently says I spent 400+ hours on Legendary Heroes, I think I spent 150+ hours on Fallen Enchantress. Given that even with games I enjoy and want to finish I rarely spend more than 130 hours on them, that's a lot of enjoyable game play. Certainly awesome value for money. Thank you Frogboy.

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December 2, 2013 5:54:36 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

FELH is the game to which I may return from time to time. Great Game!

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December 2, 2013 6:20:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

been fan of you guys for 10 plus years.  keep it up.

 

I want your next game to be called "I Need a Vacation".

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December 4, 2013 10:31:05 PM from Little Tiny Frogs Forums Little Tiny Frogs Forums

Thanks guys! We love you!

We're pretty happy with the Fallen Enchantress series. Hopefully the third Elemental strategy game (future) will be just as popular (it's going to go in a different direction than FE/LH so the LH updates will be relevant as the new one won't obsolete Fallen Enchantress). 

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December 4, 2013 11:34:01 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I really appreciate all your work.  I've been watching this thing unfold since WoM, and I'm very pleased it's turned out the way it did.  Keep up the good work oh LH!

 

 

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December 5, 2013 4:10:32 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It is very much appreciated [by] me! Put another way, I had closed out my bnet account with the D3 fiasco (compare with how Elemental was handled lol) but am very excited to support Stardock in the future and am looking forward to GalCiv 3 and also the collaboration of Mohawk. You've definitely earned a fan here, and I've really been enjoying FE/LH. I have no idea what the above drama is about, but I think many times criticism is thrown out without any putting things into context. For me, all things considered, I'd rather have an interesting game with depth and complexity that has some unfortunate bugs -warts and all- rather than a polished boring game without any meat on the bone. It's much easier to polish simple, after all.

 

Cheers!

 

(Hopefully that didn't come off as a Blizzard rant as much as it meant to be an appreciation for SD)

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December 5, 2013 9:13:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting kwm1800,


Quoting elmuneco235, reply 1
Ironic - in the original non-Morissette sense - that it should come to this the same week that Ghostcrawler left Blizzard.

This is why gamers can't have nice things... When someone from the company reaches out with explanations we crucify them as symbolic representatives of the flaws we perceive in the game (which might not even be real).
 

The fact that Diablo 3 PC version is still Online DRM only game while spewing stuffs like "The game is designed for online only" where putting offline mode for console version makes me not feeling any sympathy.

It was inevitable that after 10 years of all of DRMs, lies, ignorance and arrogance, the relationship between the gamer and publisher/developer is, in short, destroyed and only doubts and blames left which are pretty deserved and expected result.
 

That said, one of the reasons recent RSI hiccups was that quite a lot of people put their money on the company due to a sole promise that the Star Citizen will be a 'PC game only'. Reactions to recent interviews and dev post's responses show there is really no more faith left from PC gamers in general toward pretty much any publishers/developers. And regardless of the spins, this is 100% publisher/developer's fault from the start.
 

I don't say 'gamers can't have nice things' because the gamers really have not gotten any nice things since 2000s aside from Valve.
 

Not to mention a lot of problems were caused by the fact that we do not have (and will not have ) modding tools for this game. Say Diplomacy is broken (seriously I disagree diplomacy is broken, and I think this is actually the best well-finished feature for Elemental compared to a lot of half-finished features we have), then someone could had fixed it.... except we do not have any necessary tools to do so.

Notice, modding tools were also the promise when Elemental was introduced. It did not happen, Stardock decided to not put effort in it. As obvious, expected result, this game really has limited future and the potential has been killed the moment Brad said there will be no further modding support.

 
Only companies that understand the power of user created content are Valve, Bethesda, and Mojang. Both Valve and Mojang are monetizing user contents well, making massive profits. But it will take a really long time for other companies' to catch the profit because the trust is completely destroyed long since.

 
That said, Brad and Stardock indeed tried very hard to revive the franchise. Except, there were a lot of bad decisions made after Elemental bombed, pretty much nailed the coffin other than selling some small DLCs, and that hammering nailing into the coffin happened rather a long time ago.

 It's funny that reading your post reminded me of a post i read about Civilization 5 a little while back. I love Civ 5 and will continue to play it (on and off) till 6 comes out. I have over 1100 hours in that game and look forward to more. Fallen Enchantress although doesn't meet _your_ standards meets mine just fine. I think brad did a WONDERFUL job at making the game easy to mod (it's xml files for god sake how much easier do you want it?, you want mod tools, open notepad there you go). I currently have a few hundred hours in FE:LH and a few hundred in FE, this is a game i'll be able to come back to over and over and over again like i do civilization.  

So thanks for all your efforts, hard work and sacrificed family time Brad don't listen to the nit pickers as the majority of your consumers love the game. Remember the content and happy rarely express there gratitude but the unhappy will ALWAYS complain.  So for every complaint you hear there's 10 or more that are happy with what you've done.

I look forward to GalCiv3 and hope you can put the same mentality towards that as you have FE. Keep your head up and your fingers moving

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December 5, 2013 10:46:34 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

It can’t hurt to say nice things about people’s efforts, but it’s really not necessary in this case.

In the U.S., when you make a good product, people will pay you well for it. When you put effort into improving the product, you will often be rewarded with higher sales numbers.

If you don’t produce a good product, then you will eventually be penalized by the market. (but I don’t think that’s an issue for SD)

That is what happened here. Nothing more, nothing less.

If his efforts didn’t result in increased sales, (or generate good will for potential future sales) then he wouldn’t do it. It boils down to simple economic motivations.

Or to put it another way, there is no need for appreciation threads or pats on the back, as Brad has been compensated for his sacrifice in the form of the money we collectively paid him for the product.

You can dress it up any way you want, but in the end, it's about cold hard numbers. That is, a decision is made by the execs/owners as to what actions will generate the most long term sales.

 

 

Sits quietly and waits for the flames to begin...

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December 5, 2013 11:16:08 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Borg999,
Or to put it another way, there is no need for appreciation threads or pats on the back, as Brad has been compensated for his sacrifice in the form of the money we collectively paid him for the product.

Yeah, no. You have your values, other people have other values. Mistwraithe got it right:

Quoting Mistwraithe,
Seems the sort of thread where if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.

 

 

 

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