Build troops/henchmen in Fortress or Conclave? (in very early gameplay)

By on September 23, 2013 8:20:49 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

NeoNick7

Join Date 03/2008
+2

Playing the Dustbowl-map from the DLC, I went up in difficulty to Expert. This map has fewer Essence-tiles than any map I played on. My mage Sov has Air + Life and first Champion has Earth - which gives access to three troop buffs. This could give troop/Henchmen 2 or 3 of; Aura of Grace (+1 Init/ess), Aura of Might (+1 Def/ess) and/or Aura of Vitality (+1 Hp/ess).

My first city (3/3/2) was made a Fortress and then focused on Pioneer-rush. I founded my second city (just turned into Conclave) on the only essence-tile (3/3/2) that I have within resonable reach. I currently have those two cities (soon both 3-essence from the Scrying Pools) and plan to settle a Town (on 5/3/0) and a few resource/shard-outposts. After that there is no settle-able land close. After three initial Civ-techs I went to Magic for Charms and I'm now bee-lining to Henchmen.

Would you build your first troop/henchmen in the Conclave or Fortress, both being level 2? Fortress gives troops +1 lvl, whereas Conclave has one more essence (from Oracle) for better army-trained-buffs?

Or would you wait longer for Fortress turning into level 3; giving +1Hp/lvl or +2 Init? Or even longer for a fourth troop buff in Conclave? I'm currently missing Fire (+ 1 Att/ess) but that would have to wait for second Champ and an extra 100 mana, it's expensive as hell, PLUS using up the scarce fame I have.

I will continue to rush for any new land far away but I would prefer one or two Henchmen to be part of my Sov's army when going against tougher monsters and perhaps AI-armies. The Henchmen will gain levels quickly and be stronger support if they can join my Sov early - hence the unusual situation/question of troop-production. I now face the challenge of both needing better troops/Henchmen and continue expanding. 

 

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September 23, 2013 12:37:22 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I always train my troops in fortresses unless there is no other option (e.g. I don't have a spare fortress). It's just more efficient because of the reduced training time and the troop buffs. Having said that a Conclave with all the troop buffs is a reasonable backup if you need to train more units than you have fortresses. But in answer to your question, I would get on with training my first troop in my fortress. The only quibble I'd make is that I might consider building fortress buildings first, if I didn't need the troops immediately. I think it's important to get a full stack as quickly as possible, but if there's nothing much to do with a full stack then you might as well wait before training troops, which will cost you gold in maintenance; if you can afford to wait a bit then you will get a better fortress and better units and will have saved some gold.

I wouldn't specifically aim to get my fortress up a population level, which generally takes too long.

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September 23, 2013 1:46:20 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Thanks Merlinme. Sound advice  training-time was not something I took into the equation. And as speed is paramount in the starting race, quicker training is imporant.

And good to hear that waiting for population level to increase also is suboptimal.

 

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September 24, 2013 4:21:15 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I always train troops only in fortresses. I build fortresses on best positions with most essense, so that they usually have more essense than any conclave. It's especially good to produce henchmen in fortresses, because that +1 to level is very important. If I have warriors caste (+1 exp level), then build a henchman in a fortress (+1 exp level) and give him the Veteran trait (+1 exp level) I have a 4 level henchmen who can be a ready administrator of a city.

I begin to produce henchen only when I have enough heroes. Usually 3 is enough for me. So at 100 fame I can begin to train henchmen. It's also good to build any buildings which add +1 to exp level of  trained units. Most henchmen become administrators and give their equipment to sovereign and true heroes. But if a hencmen is for battle use, he don't really need starting experience, since he can get it in battle.

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September 24, 2013 5:10:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Agreed, but my situation was that both the Fortress and Conclave had the same essence-tile-yield.

I've also had the plan to make Commander Henchmen but never got that far. I need to up the game-difficulty as I wipe the mobs and AI too quickly otherwise.

And as I wrote in another thread, I found the below combination of Henchmen deadly together with a healing Mage with 1-turn cast Titan's breath (knocks all non-large or non-mounted enemies prone).

Sovereign Henchmen #1; Defender with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and +3 Defense to army. Traits; +10/15 Hp (and Plate), bee-line over Stun to +5/10/15 Spell resistance to army.  

Sovereign Henchmen #2; Mage with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and Life. Traits; Life 2 and Compassion (+50% Healing), +Army heal/season, First Aid, Summon Whisp and Lightbringer - and after that aim for +1 Casting time (for 1 turn Fireball from Annointed by Fire).

Sovereign #Henchmen 3; Warrior with +10% Xp to army, +25% Xp and +3 Defense to army. Traits; +3/4/5 Attack, +10 Hp, Blade Rush, Reap III and Bloodthirsty.

This army is complemented by your best troops and can win over deadly/epic monsters. Dark mage's spells (drain life from all troops) can be counterspelled by both the Sov and Mage-Henchman. While against prone-immune enemies or magic immune foes, it's only a matter of surviving the initial damage (low Hp-troops will have to hang back for a while).

So when designing a Commander Henchman I agree it's good to give it +1 level from traits or Fortress. But when it comes to fighting Henchmen (that are going to level high together with the Sov) I think the +25% Xp and +10%-army Xp traits are better. And I will actively try to make the Henchmen early (or at least queue them in a cityproduction until the city got necessary buffs and Charms and Leather armor is researched) so that my fame is not used up by the second Champ.

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September 24, 2013 5:48:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NeoNick7,
but my situation was that both the Fortress and Conclave had the same essence-tile-yield.

Casting 3 unit enchantment spells costs 180 mana. Is that worth 1 henchman? Later when your fortress grows you will cancell all these spells from conclave.

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September 24, 2013 7:50:40 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Agreed if you cast Fire (100 mana) + two other schools. But in my set-up I had Life, Air and Earth (not Fire) and if I remember correctly those cost 40 mana/spell.

But your question is still valid and you are probably correct in that it's not efficient (even for 120 mana). It's a LOT of mana that early and would hinder me in other areas. But I like my Henchmen and want them to be really good, so I let feelings cloud my judgement a bit here.

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September 24, 2013 8:30:55 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting NeoNick7,
But in my set-up I had Life, Air and Earth (not Fire)

You just need to hire Arcturus. This mage hero has Fre+Water magic this is all you need. Because without Fire combat henchman is not so good. Dbt if you make him Governor he will be a fine governor without any enchantments.

I'd suggest you wait a little for Arcturus (and Fire) and 3d level of Fortress to gain additional +2 to Initiative. But it's up to you.

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