Finishing a game feels ... blant & disappointing!

Just my humble opinion.

By on September 8, 2013 3:30:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

N1ghthavvk

Join Date 12/2012
+13

Alright so after grinding through a game with the new DLC installed (shameless plug for the "Anti-Slipper-Movement") which I quite enjoyed I was once more totally unprepared for the end.

ONE OF THE MOST DISAPPOINTING ENDS TO ANY GAME.

So what I guess everyone knows is that when you finish your game you are facing one of 4 little cutscenes depending on how you won. This is all fine and looks good to me.

But after those amazing screens you are faced with THIS abomination:

Beneath I have written about what is depicted here and how in my opinion that should change. I have enlarged the results for anyone wanting a tl;dr

 

So this screen tells or shows you what exactly?

0. A picture of your sovereign

So apparently your sovereign which accompanied you on your path through this game is only worthy of a picture. There is nothing of any value to be gained from this except maybe sympathy points from how good he/she looks or something. It would indefinately be better if you could see the same stats of your sovereign as ingame, all of his equipment and general stats like hitpoints, spellresistance, and all of the other ones. All of his Enchantments and Spells, all of his Traits in which you invested so heavily. It would just be good to have the ingame interface for your sovereign right here. Just to take a last look at his or her glory.Also it would be best to not alwaystake the sovereign, because I have heard of a tactic that uses Destiny's Gift (on your sovereign for the +3 hp) and Paragon to pump up a hero to insane levels, so the hero with the highest level should maybe better be displayed here.

1. How did you win?

Conquest, Diplomatic, Magic or Quest Victory

Alright, this is fine, nothing wrong with seeing how you've won, right?

 

2. How much Population you had at the end of the game in numbers.

For example 35078 (people? bananas? cars?)

So not only was this number totally irrelevant during the playthrough but it also never really showed anywhere except maybe in the govern screen which you really only visit from time to time. Displaying this instead of something much more relevant, like for example your number and level of cities with maybe their names or the count of military troops you had at the end of the game, maybe even the maximum of cities you ever controlled. No no no, we get to stare at this irrelevant number of people under our reign...

 

3. The amount of time you needed to win.

For example 199 years

So again, this number is all good, but at the same time its not only irrelevant during gameplay except for the turn limit, but also we count in turns, not years. Yes I know, each turn is supposed to be a "season", but I don't like that the game changes this to years. Did I really take 199 years to win or was I missing 2 seasons? Years is not quite ... exact ... enough.

 

4. Your points.

For example 20172

So what exactly is this number? It is not the same as your power rating, because during this particular game I had definately not a powerrating of 20172. No, it tells you of POINTS which magically and hidden from the player are calculated and do not really tell the story of how great your kingdom (or empire) really was. For example the same game which generated these 20172 points also could generate a point rating of 0 if I had just decided to wait out the turn limit (which was 2 turns away) to win. Seems fishy? Because it most certainly is. So apart from the mysterious calculation of this rating it also shows some background story depending on this rating. Each rating "unlocks" a particular ranking in the middle which is associated with a character of the lore in this game and his story at the right side. Apart from the bummer that unlocking a higher ranking does not allow for reading of the lower ones which are all quite interesting, you can only guess which characters are associated with a ranking above the one you just achieved, because it would only show a grey questionmark. This not only takes away anticipation for your next game, but also makes this ranking table very boring. You can only see your points for this particular game and the corresponding story of a character and nothing more except for some names which seem vaguely familiar because some of them are in the tech tree.

 

5. The amount of real time you invested into this game.

For example 10:51 (again: hours? apples? politicians?)

In all seriousness, this seems a fine stat to display since I want to see how many time I exactly invested into this. Even though it lacks an indicator as to which this really is. It could be days, hours, rotations of the moon around the sun, anything basically.

 

If you hit the "Back" Button it takes you back to some generic statistic graph which displays some data graphically about how much land was covered by your empire (or kingdom) and the other players during the playthrough of this game if I remember correcctly it also does al ittle more, but I am not sure about this. But again, this is nothing exact because of the nature of the display wihch is graphically. However it is informative even if only a little and I am glad at least something is there... depicting the playthrough even if this little.

If the diplomacy and AI interaction in this game would be a tad better it would display the declaration of wars and peace there as well.

There is so much interesting information during a playthrough of this game it is a shame that those informations are not here.

Take for example Age of Empires II. A game so old it can barely breath today (even though an HD rerelease is out on Steam, but thats not the point), did a better job at the achievement screen than our legendary game from 2013. There were ressource gains, number of units produced, killed and maximum of units at once under your control, the same for buildings and techs. Building a wonder in AoE2 (the equivalent to our Forge of the Overlord) were depicted in a graph and their destruction as well. Things like these, that are very important for the aftermath of a game. It only draws a picture of what can be done with the achievement screen in games. (I am aware that I am comparing 4x and a classic strategy game but this aspect is very similiar in both games)

So this brings me to my first few points:

Information about the game that had just ended during the "Score" screen is too small and should be improved upon!

Especially the ominous "points" should be crystal clear for the player

High scores should unlock the lower ranked stories

Values should be clarified in their metric

The depicted champions picture should be enriched by the ingame interface for him/her, allowing for easy access to all of his traits, equipment and stats.

 

The next big thing is that you can after pressing the finish button NEVER RETURN to this screen ever again without loading an old game and finishing the game again which could potencially yield different values. The ranking of your games is not persistent. There is no local highscore or anything. This is a thing that would make it possible for people to compare themselves to other players finishing a game and would potentially increase the amount of people finishing their games. It seems to me at least, that in this forum is a good amount of people not finishing their games because its grinding through an AI defending their empire (or kingdom) and there is no real reward apart from 8 Steam achievements (which are one time things) and 1 of 4 cutscenes.

There is even the possibility to implement an online ranking for everybody to partake in and reach global popularity. To share your highscore online should of course only be an option.

So these are my 2nd and last points:

A local and/or online highscore ranking would improve comparability of playthroughs and incentive to end a game!

A possibility to return to these screens from a "save highscore" function or something similiar


Thank you for reading and pleae comment below if you agree with me on some parts, where you disagree and/or what other solutions you might want to describe.

Please keep in mind, this is only my opinion and does not in any way means that I do not like this game, because I most certainly do, but it is just anticlimatic if the last AI resigns and just like that you stare at this screen and the game just ended and there is really no way to just .. well .. say good bye to your sovereign and your kingdom (or empire). If you say this is too emotional, yes it is, but at the same time my proposed changes would also allow people to compare themselves and to me this is also an important factor.

I would really just like to have a second or even third, fourth, etc look after a few months at my best game without having to reload a save where I hadn't even finished yet.

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September 8, 2013 8:06:21 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I am perplexed that you find this game's finish so disappointing because you go on to cite just how much information is given. I've played games that have said basically "you won!" and not much else.

Also, you should have a pretty good idea you are about to end the game. So, save it just before you win. Personally, once the game is over, I never want to go back. If you forget to save, reload the last autosave and re-save that.

I don't want to put you down for your opinion--you're entitled to it. However, I'm still scratching my head that anyone would feel this strongly about FE/LH's ending.

 

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September 8, 2013 8:28:35 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

"ONE OF THE MOST DISAPPOINTING ENDS TO ANY GAME."

??

Those are many words to condemn. I try to not be overly mean, but what were you, , expecting? Being told you did a good job is well and good. Being told how utterly awesome you are is not good. Beware the flattering tongue.

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September 8, 2013 9:15:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yeah, didn't you ever see the end to Bad Dudes? Worse than this.

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September 8, 2013 9:16:50 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I feel I must also add:

"Are you a bad enough dude to save the President?"

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September 8, 2013 9:25:49 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Interesting, so apparently you guys think that this is not an issue.

Quoting coyote303,

I am perplexed that you find this game's finish so disappointing because you go on to cite just how much information is given. I've played games that have said basically "you won!" and not much else.

Also, you should have a pretty good idea you are about to end the game. So, save it just before you win. Personally, once the game is over, I never want to go back. If you forget to save, reload the last autosave and re-save that.

I don't want to put you down for your opinion--you're entitled to it. However, I'm still scratching my head that anyone would feel this strongly about FE/LH's ending.

 

You say, that I cite the amount of information that is given, yes i did that, but I also said that it is not enough and that a part of that information is worthless such as the Population. Furthermore I added ideas to what I thought was a good idea to have at an end screen like this.

(I do not use Auto-Saves because my configuration works faster without them [slow harddrive]) So reloading an Auto save is not an option. And I have had AI quitting their job in my face just like that when they were at an disadvantage.

I don't want to reload the game after winning, that is pointless (unless you are grinding for Steam achievements?). What I want is an easy way to hold onto my results of a particular game and return back to those. Like, how many cities did I have, what level was my sovereign, what epic equipment had I? Things like these in an endscreen where I do not need to reload the game engine itself. Perhaps I didn't convey my point above.

Also just because there are games that have a worse ending does not mean we should settle for a mediocre one.

 

Quoting HarbingerLeo,

"ONE OF THE MOST DISAPPOINTING ENDS TO ANY GAME."

??

Those are many words to condemn. I try to not be overly mean, but what were you, N1ghthavvk, expecting? Being told you did a good job is well and good. Being told how utterly awesome you are is not good. Beware the flattering tongue.

To answer your question: I was not expecting such a cluttered unhandily end screen where basically nothing of value is gained.  I was expecting something like in my original example in Age of Empires 2, where I could see detailed stats about how I did during that game.

 

Aside from that, what is you guys opinion towards my proposed local/online highscore ?

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September 9, 2013 4:07:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting N1ghthavvk,
So reloading an Auto save is not an option.

I was primarily suggesting you manually save. And yes I get that you don't want to have to reload, but really you expect the game designer to make it so you can load a game you already won?

Also just because there are games that have a worse ending does not mean we should settle for a mediocre one.

Mediocre is not how you described the ending. You made it sound like it is horrible. You used all caps (and bold). And I don't find the ending mediocre at all; I find it quite satisfying. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.

Aside from that, what is you guys opinion towards my proposed local/online highscore ?

I tried to be tactful in my original post, but I guess I wasn't clear so I'll be blunt. I hope the developers don't waste their time "improving" the end game or the scoring.

Now if you hit a nerve and you get lots of support for your idea, then kudos to you to bringing it up. If not, I suggest you create a spreadsheet where you can track all this information you want to preserve. You can even create your own scoring system. Of course, you'll need things like raw population numbers to plug into your formula.

 

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September 9, 2013 5:28:20 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting coyote303,


I was primarily suggesting you manually save. And yes I get that you don't want to have to reload, but really you expect the game designer to make it so you can load a game you already won?



Mediocre is not how you described the ending. You made it sound like it is horrible. You used all caps (and bold). And I don't find the ending mediocre at all; I find it quite satisfying. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion.



I tried to be tactful in my original post, but I guess I wasn't clear so I'll be blunt. I hope the developers don't waste their time "improving" the end game or the scoring.

Now if you hit a nerve and you get lots of support for your idea, then kudos to you to bringing it up. If not, I suggest you create a spreadsheet where you can track all this information you want to preserve. You can even create your own scoring system. Of course, you'll need things like raw population numbers to plug into your formula.

 

To be clear here: I specifically used hyperbole in my original post to create an incentive for other people to post. Maybe I overdid it, because I am not particularly skilled in writing forum posts as long as this. If so, my apologies.

No, I do not expect a gamedesigner to load up a game i've already won, but rather "load" a table of achievements of a finished game, which could include the complete stats of the sovereign. Even just being able to return to the screen as we have it now.

I adjusted my response to contain the "mediocre ending", because you said yourself there are games worse than this (and I do agree with you on that even if that fact didn't convey through my original post, I do now), but in my opinion the one we are talking about here, can be improved upon. Of course as you said, not only me, but also you are entitled to each our own opinions, right?

Thank you for your manners, but I do disagree with your point of view (we would have no discussion here otherwise). Of course that is no surprise to anyone.

Yes, I would be able to create a worksheet with data, but first off that is too much work for every game I would want to analyse, and also is not integrated into the game. So I'll pass on that. Still, thank you for your input on that.

 

Anyhow it seems that everybody agrees with you since this topic never came up before and the resonance isn't exactly great so to speak. Shame really that I invested time in this..

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September 9, 2013 9:29:03 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I support the idea of having a local scoreboard that keeps track of various sovereign and empire/kingdom stats for each game completed (or at least the top 10).

We shouldn't have to keep track of it on a spreadsheet.

btw..I requested this feature back when FE was first released.

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September 9, 2013 10:22:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


Needs cutscenes.

For each of the ways to win and lose the game, a cutscene should depict the results in a very fashonable and concluding way. These cutscenes should be as long as the intro cutscene at least...to really reward the HOURS of blood, sweat, and tears applied over the course of the game.

Lot's of cutscenes.

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September 9, 2013 10:50:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


You want disappointing, try playing a game with a great story that ends with "to be continued." And never got a continuation!!! 

That's now happened to be at least twice.

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September 9, 2013 12:23:31 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting N1ghthavvk,
Shame really that I invested time in this..

Not at all. I can understand a request such as you and Borg are requesting. I appreciate you wanting this aspect of the game to be better. My (over-?)reaction was because you initially painted the game as being flawed and one of the worst when it came to the end of game.

You write well, and I hope you continue to contribute to the forum. My only suggestion is to take the approach "here's how I think the game could be better" as opposed to "there is something seriously wrong here" unless, of course, there really is. Why am I suddenly thinking about bunny slippers?!

 

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September 9, 2013 12:48:29 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I would not describe the ending of the game horrible, but I have to agree with the OP. The ending cites information that we cannot really relate to.

 

I have no idea how points are calculated. It would be nice to have a list of what gives what points in a game. Does conquering the game give more point than an alliance victory?

 

If the game is calculated in seasons then it should tell you how many seasons it took to win the game. Apples with apples simple math reasoning.

 

Having a scoreboard would be fun. It's the only thing close to multilayer we will ever have.

 

Most of the ran here could easily be resolved with a  simple spreadsheet that depicts a list of stats attained in game.

 

Cities, troops, lost of life, achievement in game things like that with a list of points allotted for each of them. Things like these make the difference between good games and incredible games.

 

 

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September 9, 2013 2:15:00 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting coyote303,


Quoting N1ghthavvk, reply 7Shame really that I invested time in this..

Not at all. I can understand a request such as you and Borg are requesting. I appreciate you wanting this aspect of the game to be better. My (over-?)reaction was because you initially painted the game as being flawed and one of the worst when it came to the end of game.

You write well, and I hope you continue to contribute to the forum. My only suggestion is to take the approach "here's how I think the game could be better" as opposed to "there is something seriously wrong here" unless, of course, there really is. Why am I suddenly thinking about bunny slippers?!

 

Thank you for your kind words.

I will remember your suggested style for any new topics I will post in the future. It does sound a lot less.. revolting. And less shocking. And less infuriating.

Maybe you were talking about Bunny slippers because I also mentioned them in the op?

"Alright so after grinding through a game with the new DLC installed (shameless plug for the "Anti-Slipper-Movement") which I quite enjoyed I was once more totally unprepared for the end."

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September 14, 2013 8:45:39 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I would adore (and was frankly a little surprised to not get) some sort of Hall of Fame, even if it were just a simple list of faction leader's name and score like we had in the venerable Master of Magic.  Of course, the ability to click on each entry in the HoF and see more details would be welcome.  I'm not willing to ask for a ton of work here; improving the end screens doesn't add anything to gameplay and could only be appreciated at relatively rare intervals, but a button on the main menu leading to a simple list of scores doesn't really sound it would be a ton of effort, and would give at least some players an additional way to celebrate their accomplishments/mourn their failures.

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February 16, 2015 11:39:53 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Totally agree with the OP,

A Hall of Fame , or Scoreboard, is needed .

Right now the end Game is a total anti climax.

 

That said, the rest of the game is awesome, one of the best 4X i ever played

 

Cheers

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