[eMOD] Demons and Wizards (Updated for 1.8)

By on July 21, 2013 2:41:19 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

abob101

Join Date 11/2010
+49

 

Now updated for LH 1.8 compatibility.   Download here via Nexus.

Updated to version 1.8a, includes compatability with LH 1.8 as well as a number of bug fixes, enhancements and balance tweaks.  See here for the full change log.

http://demonsandwizards.wikidot.com/

 

Changelog

http://demonsandwizards.wikidot.com/main:changelog


Key Features

  • 4 new spellbooks (Nature, Shadow, Battle, Beast)
  • Enhanced summoning mechanics with over 80 different creature to summon
  • Religion mechanics including "Faith" resource, disciple units and divine spells
  • 3 new paths (Summoner, Priest and Ranger) and an overhauled Mage class
  • 15 new factions/races with unique blood types
  • 40 new champions


Credits

Heavenfall – For the BG Unitstats library, a few bits from Children of Storm, some ideas borrowed from the Goetia Mod, the Cacus Giant, lots of invaluable advice and assistance regarding modding FE/LH. Go checkout Children of Storm if you haven't already (http://childrenofstorm.wikidot.com/).

Davrovana - Faction, Sovereign, Champion backstories.
Nightmurderer03 - Lots of ideas, unit designs, beta testing and feedback.

ManiiNames, NaytchSG – beta testing the early versions.
jeffqyzt2 – Champion backstories.
parrottmath – Maul debuff mod and his outstanding contribution to FE/LH modding.
DsRaider - Some faction traits, some bits from AIPlus, inspiration from his various great mods.
Primal_Savage - For the ClotheLootFix and lots of help with LH modding along the way.
OliverFA_306, GfireflyE, Murteas, Brainjuggler, Naidrev, LordTheRon (and lots of others) - for providing ideas, feedback and discussion which is invaluable when working on this stuff.
fsemprini – For the Summoner Path selection graphic.
brich1212 - for the original Ranger path mod.

Stardock - for an awesome game

 

Screenshots

 

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September 17, 2013 7:05:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I love this. The base game summon system was craptastic and not at all worth bothering with, which was a shame because in games like this I prefer to play a summoner. This mod is my dream come true on that front.

Couple minor bugs. One of the new champions you added, Briginet (or something like that) has the wrong soundpack, she sounds like a dude in combat. I also summoned an Archangel and it had no face or wings, the other angels I tried all worked fine, it was just him, not sure if it was a one time fluke or not.

Minor peeve, I don't like how some of the summons are still limited to 1 per summoner, and more so that it's not noted anywhere in the tooltips. I got my first Lightbringer (sp? light energy thing with armor and a big sword) and after the first fight I was like "I want 5 of these!" but around 10 turns later after checking every turn to see if I could summon another yet I realized it was one per. Doesn't really make sense to me, I imagine stuff like dragons or whatever might warrant a limit, but these guys are much less powerful than say Archons which I can summon a bunch of. The Guardian/Retribution Angels weren't really strong enough to cap IMO either, I mean I loved them, but I wanted more, and by themselves they weren't very strong for long. I'd rather see higher upkeeps and no cap on any of the summons. If its uber make it cost 20 mana per turn. That said I think the mana upkeep costs are far too low anyway, it's not even something I think about, I can always hit the pool cap and still make tons of mana per turn with just a few conclaves.

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September 17, 2013 10:51:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think Sanati means Briganat, and she has indeed the incorrect sound pack, its set to generic male when it should be generic female.

I also encountered the archangel face bug but i didn't know if it was a problem on my end because of Children of the storm installation.

Retribution angels are very good with their abilities, i mean have you used cloak of thorns on a defense oriented Lord Markin? , guardian angels however i agree are lacking, they are nothing compared to their evil cousins the angels of despair.

 

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September 18, 2013 3:28:46 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Oops poor Briganat, fixed for next release.  Looks like there was a bug with the Archangel too, that should be fixed next release also.

The next release will have quite a bit in it (4 new spellbooks)... but it's taking a bit longer than I hoped so I might do a minor patch first to fix up those bugs, not sure yet.  

Thanks for the feedback & bug reports that's awesome.  

 

Regarding the 1 per for the Lightbringer etc.... the way it works (and maybe I need to make it more obvious) is that i've made all the summons under the spell schools stackable... and (almost) all the summons in the path itself (such as the Lightbringer, Dragon, Angels etc) as 1 only.  The reasoning is mainly that I don't want players to be able to just rely on the creatures in the summoner path.

The creatures in the spell schools are supposed to be the bread n butter... the line troops I guess.  And the units in the summoner path (such as Angels... or the interesting units under the "Outer Planes" ability) are hopefully providing something a bit different, such as abilities that affect the whole army.. so support abilities or whatever.  They are supposed to bring a bit more to the table than the line troop guys in the spell books.... hence they are special and 1 only each.

Now maybe it's not worked out exactly that way, but that was the idea behind it.

Regarding the Lightbringer ability specifically... for a while there in my own testing I just had another +1 level summon passive ability in that spot on the tree.... but it was too many boring passives in a row, so I added in that ability to break it up a bit.  

 

Quoting Sanati,
I'd rather see higher upkeeps and no cap on any of the summons.

In principle I tend to agree with this, but I suspect it would give the Human player an even bigger advantage over the AI (I don't think the AI would handle it too well).

 

Quoting Nightmurderer03,
guardian angels however i agree are lacking, they are nothing compared to their evil cousins the angels of despair.

Hmmm yeah I like the Angel of Despair.  Haven't really had the chance to use the Guardian Angel much... will take a look at him and maybe give him a boost of some sort next release.  This sort of feedback is great because I'm not actually getting much time to play (too busy working on more mod stuff)... already made a few tweaks based on other feedback so thanks.

 

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September 18, 2013 3:54:45 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Happy to hear things are coming along with a lot of new content coming up.  Such an ambitious mod!

 

On that note, could you give us an idea on how your plans of incorporating compatibility with CoS is going?  I know you've been looking into it; but since I haven't seen mention of it lately, I assume the two won't be fully-compatible by the next release.  Any insight you can give on this would be fantastic.  I also still use Heroic Pursuits (which is slightly outdated at this point), but if minimal conflicts don't cause much of a problem, so I can get past that.



I haven't tried this mod since it was first released due to problems which I believe where being caused by conflicts with CoS -- but I'm really looking forward to trying it soon.

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September 18, 2013 5:35:51 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abob101,
In principle I tend to agree with this, but I suspect it would give the Human player an even bigger advantage over the AI (I don't think the AI would handle it too well).

What specifically are you thinking would mess up the AI? In one of my games one of the AIs had two summoners, a custom sov and a summoner champ, and they were throwing out summons constantly, even attacking me with full armies of them. If they are hitting their pool cap and the summons are balanced around their pool and mana upkeep costs it shouldn't really matter too much whether they are creating lots of 2-3 pool summons instead of a much smaller number of 10-20 cost ones, I would think.

The one thing I was able to really abuse as a player is the Corruption spell on a death magic summoner. With a dense magic map I was pretty quickly summoning level 20+ Dark Angels and such, with only a tiny corner of a huge map claimed.

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September 18, 2013 7:23:14 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Sanati,
In one of my games one of the AIs had two summoners, a custom sov and a summoner champ, and they were throwing out summons constantly, even attacking me with full armies of them.

Oh wow really?  That's awesome.  I haven't really seen the AI use more than a couple of summons at a time... but like I said I haven't had the chance to actually play as much as I would like.  If the AI is using a lot of summons in that situation that's great

Just need the AI to start using tactical summons.... Hint hint - Kael/Frogoby pls fix it...

 

Quoting Sanati,
What specifically are you thinking would mess up the AI?

I'd be concerned about the AI running out of mana for casting other spells.  If there was no summon pool, and/or a bigger mana maintenance cost for summons i'd be concerned they cast a heap of summons then have no mana left for other things.

Not ruling it out completely in the future but pretty content to leave it roughly as is for now.

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September 18, 2013 8:46:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Victor5,
On that note, could you give us an idea on how your plans of incorporating compatibility with CoS is going?

Well no guarantee but.... I have some time off work a couple of weeks from now.   Hopefully i'll have some spare time to get the next release finished, and then add CoS compatibility straight after that.

 

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September 18, 2013 11:38:52 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abob101,

Oh wow really?  That's awesome.  I haven't really seen the AI use more than a couple of summons at a time... but like I said I haven't had the chance to actually play as much as I would like.  If the AI is using a lot of summons in that situation that's great

Just need the AI to start using tactical summons.... Hint hint - Kael/Frogoby pls fix it...


Oh ya, usually the only units I see with that sov are summons. Last time I fought her she had 3 of those holy cat summons and a group of 4 of the holy defender guys, plus one generic group of archers from a quest. She's been throwing a few stacks of trained unit armies at me too, but her summons are definitely the bigger threat and she knows it and uses them well. But ya, sadly no tactical summons, though it's not like that can possibly handicap the AI any more in tactical combat, I think it's already at the derp limit.


Quoting abob101,

I'd be concerned about the AI running out of mana for casting other spells.  If there was no summon pool, and/or a bigger mana maintenance cost for summons i'd be concerned they cast a heap of summons then have no mana left for other things.

Not ruling it out completely in the future but pretty content to leave it roughly as is for now.

Ah, I think the pool system is great, I wasn't suggesting to take that out.

Though it's not like the AI has a better use for mana. Had one AI spam Tremor on one of my caravans every single turn for like the entire game.

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September 18, 2013 1:05:44 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hi abob101

 

No worries about the COS compatibility, they are not as incompatible as you would believe, i think the biggest and most time consuming thing to do would be assigning COS tags to your custom summons.

From what i've seen when both mods modify something say the magic school levels(air 1, air 2, air 3 etc.) they don't overwrite each other instead both changes are applied, meaning each level in these gives you +1 summoning pool and +1 grey magic(COS).

But in short, these mods can work together at the moment, yes you will not be able to use stuff that relies on COS tags, for example extra damage to summoned creatures, but they don't explode if loaded together.

 

Also now returning to the mod itself i do have a few comments i would like to share about the other angels:

Fallen angels aren't that good either, they are supposed to be heavy fighters but i think they are short on the abilities department which makes say retribution angels better than these.

Same thing with the Despair/Guardian angels, despair angel has a crazy ability that makes up for its low initiative and defenses whereas guardian angel boosts troops but its not that good on its own.

Death angel is pretty good, better than archangel in my opinion, they can death ward key units such as mage champions/sovs and they have fear which is very good and they can also enter combat if they get lucky with their fear cloak.

Archangels can heal and that's it, they will get owned fast if they get in a real fight.

 

Keep up the good work!

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September 20, 2013 8:42:47 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think the Shrill Squads and such need their pool and mana upkeep cost multiplied by their group sizes (as a start). Just playing around with them in my most recent game, you can very quickly start summoning level 5-10 squads of shrills which tend to dwarf the power levels of even solo tier 4 summons at a fraction of the cost. 60 mana very early in the game can get you a unit with ~200 health and 50 attack, and you can have dozens of them with little investment into pool size. I'd also suggest a level 15 or even 20 requirement on the squads trait, with maybe 5, 10, and 15 on the previous 3 traits in the line. They are really powerful traits, and it takes dozens if not hundreds of turns of research to get comparable trained troop sizes.

Also, I think you are using the base game shrill units right? There is some wonkyness in having them in groups of 5, for example the fire shrill ability damage is "locked" and not boosted by group size, instead it's divided by group size and applied over as many hits, so with 5 of them the ability usually does like 0-3x5 damage (at level 10ish). Then when units in the squad die the number of hits is reduced but the damage goes up, so with one left it's back up to like 10-15x1. It's a little strange, but then again I'm not sure it should be "fixed" as it does scale with level and does eventually become comparable to their melee attack again.

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September 21, 2013 9:00:07 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for the feedback NM/Sanati, taking that all on board for the next release.  Expect to see at least something of a tweak in those areas.

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September 23, 2013 4:57:12 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

NP.

One more. The group summon icon for the death magic boars is missing/blank.

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September 24, 2013 10:44:09 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks, though coincidentally I've actually changed the Death 3 summons to a Corpse Spider in the next release.   

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September 24, 2013 11:06:35 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hiya guys, hoping you can help me- I have a few related question for those of you who've played through with the Summoner Path....

 

Did you find you choose to or needed to take the Channeling abilities in the path at all, i.e. the ones that boost the Summon Pool?  

Similarly did you find the need to use the Channeling city spell at all (+2 Summon Pool) ?

Do you find yourself ever even hitting the Summon Pool limit?

 

I'm curious.. because the balance i'm looking for is that if you want to have a significant number of active strategic summons, you should have to boost the Summon Pool with the abilities or spell.  My gut feel is that it's too easy to have plenty of Summon Pool available currently, so maybe the strategic summons should have a higher requirement.  I'm actually seriously considering a fairly drastic increase, maybe double the current Summon Pool requirement for strategic summons across the board to reduce the overall power of the Summoner Path compared to the other paths.  

What do you think?

 

Thanks.

 

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September 24, 2013 11:36:21 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Hi Abob101,

 

I usually take only the first trait in the channeling path, the one that boosts your summoning pool by +5, i usually use the channeling spell only once in my main conclave if it has enough essence.

Between these things and the pool that my heroes generate(because of their magic schools) its usually enough for my summoning needs,

as a suggestion for balance, i would say that the costs for the elemental summons( air, life, death etc.) seems to be a bit more balanced(maybe increase the cost of the last two tiers), however the angels i think are pretty cheap.

I have played my last games without resorting to the dragon, i would actually suggest changing the dragon to something else a demon or something, why?, because pretty much once you have a dragon you have won the game, its insanely powerful and the ai has no idea on how to deal with it.

In these last games i have enjoyed playing with the angels because they are good but they don't guarantee victory, you still need to be smart with them or else they get destroyed.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Edit: Well after reading the comments below mine i have a suggestion, how about removing the +1 pool from the first three levels of magic schools and giving the fourth and fifth levels a +2 increase in summoning pool, this would force the players to train summoners(sacrificing commanders for cities in my case), use the summoning pool traits and use the channeling spells as the only way to increase summoning pool, makes more sense that only summoning related stuff can increase the pool and only their main summoner would be able to contribute more to it(high level magic schools).

Also it would be cool to see more summon related items like the summoner staff and a unique and expensive building limited to one per faction that boost summoning pool might be another idea.

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September 24, 2013 12:05:30 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

When I was playing with like shrills or skeleton groups I didn't really have much concern for pool like I mentioned in a previous post. However when I was using tier 4 and 5 summons primarily I was casting the channeling spell on every single city and had 2 or 3 champs that all took the +summon pool traits (all of them), and I tended to stay right at the pool cap with like 2-3 tier 4/5 summons stationed in every city as defenders and another 10 or so out in the field as part of armies led by champs and my sov. I've even gone so far as to start with Decalon just so I could make sure every champ I got even if they aren't summoners had extra pool to contribute.

Balance-wise I think the current tier 4 summons like Dark Angels are at the sweet spot as far as pool cost. Tier 1-3 single summons are also at a good spot and early game I was hitting my pool cap with them as well. Tier 1-3 group summons definitely need to cost more pool, just a simple multiplication of their base pool by the number of group members would work. Tier 5 summons I think could cost maybe 2-4 more pool, at least the life and death magic ones which I've tried, just to keep tier 4 summons relatively useful late game.

I'm not a fan of dragons or giant monsters so I haven't even tried like the dragon or drake summons, I can't comment on their balance and don't even know what their pool cost is.

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September 24, 2013 5:41:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums


On rare occasions I have used the city enchantment to boost my pool enough to get some specific summon out on the board.  I have also invested time into the +pool traits, but only after I have already bought almost everything else I am interested in. 

 

So in answer to your question:  No I do not think the summoning pool is restrictive enough.

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September 28, 2013 7:12:01 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Thanks for the feedback.  Will probably go for some minor tweaks with the pool next version as opposed to anything drastic.  I think i'll increase the base mana maintenance from 0.5 to 1 also.

 

Quoting Nightmurderer03,
Also it would be cool to see more summon related items like the summoner staff and a unique and expensive building limited to one per faction that boost summoning pool might be another idea.

I've got a couple of extra items in the next update already but have ideas for a few more so will hopefully get them in also. 

 

Cheers.

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September 28, 2013 7:16:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Keep up the great work!

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October 5, 2013 1:23:58 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Victor5,
On that note, could you give us an idea on how your plans of incorporating compatibility with CoS is going?  I know you've been looking into it; but since I haven't seen mention of it lately, I assume the two won't be fully-compatible by the next release. 

I decided to essentially skip a release and make the next release a big one rather than do a couple of smaller releases.  Next release will have:

- lots of balance tweaks (mostly done)

- 4 new spell schools with corresponding summons (done)

- 25 new champions that have a mix of the new spell schools (done)

- COS compatibility, as much as possible (working on this one right now)

 

So it's fairly close now.  Thing is, I've got quite a of changes crammed into this release... in particular the new spell schools, and I don't have much time to play test.   I wouldn't mind getting a few people to do a beta test before I update the Nexus.... if anyone is interested in trying out the next release and checking for obvious bugs, that would be really helpful.... drop me a private message if you're keen.

Cheers.

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October 6, 2013 10:27:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Question for you guys playing COS.... do you think the Dark Angel and other "evil" Angels should count as Celestial (the unit stat) ?

The Angel, the Celestial Defender, the Archon and the good Angels in the summoning path will all be "Celestial".  I'm just not sure about the dark ones.  HF's description of Celestial from his COS wiki says this as the definition for Celestial...

Beings from the upper planes and other units that may be considered particularly holy or divine, such as Angels. They are generally well-meaning but often operate under absolute moralities which leads to strange decisions.


Now I would consider Dark Angels to be "from the upper planes", and they are obviously a type of Angel.  However they obviously are not exactly "holy or divine".


I think the answer depends mostly on how this is used in COS.  I don't generally play COS - despite it's obvious awesomeness it is a little bit too high fantasy for my taste.  From what I see in the files doesn't look like there is a lot of effects or spells that impact this stat, but still...

I lean towards making them Celestial for now.  Logic being that they are good angels that have been corrupted or fallen from the righteous path... making them kinda evil, but still liable to be affected by spells etc that affect Celestial.  Thoughts?


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October 6, 2013 10:39:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

These tags are used by custom abilities that the new races have or the new items for example:

Axe of duality

*If user is Celestial and target isn't: +1 arcane attack per user level

and stuff like that, most of these are invisible to the player anyways, however some of them such as immortal and not living are visible like traits.

But to answer your question, i also think they should be celestial, just checked the tags in the wiki and the only other tag that maybe could apply instead is demons, but celestial seems more appropriate.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

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October 6, 2013 10:45:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Nightmurderer03,
But to answer your question, i also think they should be celestial, just checked the tags in the wiki and the only other tag that maybe could apply instead is demons, but celestial seems more appropriate.

Cool that's what I thought thanks too!  

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October 6, 2013 7:45:16 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abob101,
Now I would consider Dark Angels to be "from the upper planes", and they are obviously a type of Angel.  However they obviously are not exactly "holy or divine".

Technically "holy" or "divine" only relates to something religious and isn't limited to "good" religions. I don't know the lore very well or if there is some sort of dark deity the fallen angels now serve, but I think either way just originating as normal angels makes them divine entities. I don't play COS either, but I would definitely call them celestial.

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October 6, 2013 11:12:53 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting abob101,

Question for you guys playing COS.... do you think the Dark Angel and other "evil" Angels should count as Celestial (the unit stat) ?

The Angel, the Celestial Defender, the Archon and the good Angels in the summoning path will all be "Celestial".  I'm just not sure about the dark ones.  HF's description of Celestial from his COS wiki says this as the definition for Celestial...

Beings from the upper planes and other units that may be considered particularly holy or divine, such as Angels. They are generally well-meaning but often operate under absolute moralities which leads to strange decisions.




Now I would consider Dark Angels to be "from the upper planes", and they are obviously a type of Angel.  However they obviously are not exactly "holy or divine".




I think the answer depends mostly on how this is used in COS.  I don't generally play COS - despite it's obvious awesomeness it is a little bit too high fantasy for my taste.  From what I see in the files doesn't look like there is a lot of effects or spells that impact this stat, but still...

I lean towards making them Celestial for now.  Logic being that they are good angels that have been corrupted or fallen from the righteous path... making them kinda evil, but still liable to be affected by spells etc that affect Celestial.  Thoughts?


 

This is used for certain weapons, abilities which only affect certain types of creatures.  For this purpose I would definitely call them celestial.  

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