Will there be multiplayer in the future?

By on July 5, 2013 10:03:56 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

hakkarin

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I have a friend who realli likes the look of FE: LH, but is turend off by the lack of multiplayer. He and me like playing games like Civ 5 togehter so its a huge turn-off not having any multiplayer.

Are there any known plans to add multiplayer in the future? And if not, how likely is it that it will be added at some point?

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July 23, 2013 7:34:26 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Well see reply 23, you could literally yell 'OMG Take My Money' and it wouldn't make any difference unless the talent is in place.

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July 23, 2013 9:40:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RickyDMMontoya,
Multiplayer doesn't make a bad game good. But a lack of multiplayer makes a good game not worth playing.

As long as you understand these are just your opinions; not at all facts.  And by the way, these two statements completely contradict each other.

 

But let's talk facts.  Think about why so many games have multiplayer today.  The idea of implimenting it to an otherwise complete, single player game isn't about making it better or "worth playing".  The reality is, in cases like these, adding multiplayer is often little more than a business decision.  It's about sales numbers.  Will the mere inclusion of multiplayer make a game sell better (regardless of its meaningful impact on the game itself)?  Many will claim the numbers say it does.  Because people (like RickyDMMontoya) will buy it -- not because it's a good game, but simply because they see "multiplayer" listed on the box, regardless of anything meaningful beyond that.  The bold quote above exemplifies this quite explicitly.

It reminds me of a conversation I've recently had with a close friend of mine who is a game developer.  Apparently the following is a lecture game developers get all too often (usually from their publisher): "This is a wonderful single player game.  That said, I don't care how you do it, I don't care if the netcode is terrible, I don't care if it damages the quality of the game in other areas or it just doesn't seem to fit in the first place, it MUST have multiplayer."  -- As a consumer and caring fan of a product, does this forceful and ignorant mentality sound like a "good" thing to you?  Just another reason forcing multiplayer on a game can sometimes be more of a detriment than anything else.

 

Speaking purely as a consumer and a gamer, I don't care how many units are sold.  It's not my job to worry about that.  Multiplayer or not, all I want is a solid gaming experience that I'll enjoy for an extended period of time.

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July 23, 2013 11:45:39 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I dont see what all those 'multiplayer is bad' guys point is.
If its in, cool.
If not, it would have been cool.
No balancing towards multiplayer needed.
Sure, if the game itself drops in quality or another 'to be implememted' point falls short in favor of multiplayer, then and only THEN multiplayer is bad.
If they implement multiplayer for the heck of it and to give people a better challenge (lets face it, once u've grasped the game, you WILL NOT LOSE to a challenging KI and only struggle due to unfair advantages for the KI), why would you speak against it?

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July 23, 2013 12:36:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Okay @ #27 "these two statements completely contradict each other" Are you aware of what a contradiction is? #24's first proposition says that adding the multiplayer feature to an already poor title will not save it from bad development choices, poor graphics, game-breaking bugs, etc. The second proposition is that lack of multiplayer support in an otherwise exceptional game renders it unplayable by his standards. (which I whole-heartedly disagree with, anyone who tries to tell me that Psychonauts or the first Portal game are "not worth playing" is blatantly wrong in my eyes) Neither of these statements are mutually exclusive. Neither of these claims have any effect on the other's validity.

Now, you claim to desire to "talk facts" and about "reality". You then provide a single anecdote about a rude and pushy game publisher forcing a developer to add multiplayer to his game. How is this proving anything more than #24? I would like to mark one of your comments on #24 with a 'return to sender' stamp: "As long as you understand that these are just your opinions" You have provided absolutely no reason adding multiplayer is a detriment to a game other than your personal perspective.

How does adding an optional feature to a product do anything but add value to it? If you don't want to play multiplayer then don't click the multiplayer button, does that not solve the issue? Is an extra menu option really that hard to live with?
I honestly cannot fathom an anti-multiplayer lobbyist's reason against adding bonus functionality to an already outstanding title. When was the last time you decided to not purchase or use a product because it gave you options?
I can concede that it may be off-putting that this will take resources away from developing more singleplayer content or that it could negatively impact the current level of support offered for single player. However, if adding multiplayer support brings in more players does that not mean that more resources will be acquired by the developer? Wouldn't that remedy at least some of the split?
Game balance changes need not revolve around competitive multiplayer, that's a developer's choice. The developer might just as easily leave things exactly the way they are for multiplayer. If one single strategy dominates all others in competitions then that is fine. If the developer wants to even the playing field a bit because of this then perhaps singleplayer needed the adjustment too? Or multiplayer could even just take a backseat while the changes to singleplayer mechanics dictate all balance changes.

 

 

TL;DR? Long-story-short: My opinion is that multiplayer is an optional feature that will add value to FE:LH and shouldn't be treated like some kind of horrible plague threatening to spread to the precious singleplayer game. If you don't want to play with friends, then click the singleplayer button every time you load the game. I would appreciate the option of adding social interaction to my gaming experience.

If someone out there feels that they desperately need to convince me otherwise then please, for the love of whatever deity you hold dear, use real-world logic and verifiable facts. Thank you. C=

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July 23, 2013 3:45:51 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

the game can't even function with proper multiplayer

 

you would literally be staring at the screen doing nothing while other players are busy with tactical battles

 

even if it's 1v1, you have fights against monsters at different turns so even that wouldn't work

 

maybe it could support play-by-email, but you're talking about a fraction of a fraction of the already low player base who would care at that point

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July 23, 2013 6:59:55 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

So exactly what are we discussing here?

There is obviously multiple forms of Multiplayer:

- Hotseat

- Round-Robin

- play-by-email

 

But concerning The_Biz's point:

Quoting The_Biz,

the game can't even function with proper multiplayer
you would literally be staring at the screen doing nothing while other players are busy with tactical battles
even if it's 1v1, you have fights against monsters at different turns so even that wouldn't work

Maybe the other players could watch?

I guess this is why Hotseat is possibly the most likely multiplayer we will get.

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July 23, 2013 7:54:59 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

See Reply #11.

Quoting StevenAus,

In response to Reply #9:

"Log in when it is your turn" games.  That's even what I think was envisioned for the future of Elemental multiplayer.  You play your turn when it is your turn, then pass it on to the next person.  Of course with simultaneous co-op, players could do multiple turns in the one session if they were online at the same time.  But hosting the game on a central server with email notification allows asynchronous turns, and it really doesn't matter how much actual time between the start and the finish of the game.

It would be great if we could have custom mods available in some form in co-op too.

 

In response to Reply #10:

If the multi-mode was co-op play only (which this game is well suited for) it would not require perfect balance and so does not have this issue.  The AI can be tailored for the skill of the co-op players, and it is no loss if the AI loses.

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July 24, 2013 2:52:28 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Victor5,
Many will claim the numbers say it does.  Because people (like RickyDMMontoya) will buy it -- not because it's a good game, but simply because they see "multiplayer" listed on the box, regardless of anything meaningful beyond that.  The bold quote above exemplifies this quite explicitly.

 

This is stupid to say.


I explained why I need multiplayer in a 4x game. It's like a boardgame to me. I want to play it with people. I want to socialize with it. I want it to be the thing that brings my friends/family together for a night of beer and pretzles.


I can forego multiplayer in an RPG, like an Elder Scrolls game, where there's a compelling story. I can forego multiplayer in a quick little action game, like Hotline Miami, where it's gripping moments of quick action.


I can't forego it in a 4x. It's quite boring and bland to push pixels just for the sake of it against an AI that will always fall down. There's no actual diplomacy. The AI will just make stupid demands/offers without anything behind it.

Put a person behind it, and that trade agreement means something.

 

Why should I bother to play FE:LH? There's no story to speak of, there's no novel mechanics to explore beyond the first 10 minutes.


These games are repetitive by their nature. If you've played one game of Fallen Enchantress to the end, you've seen everything there is. The only reason I have to play them - ever - is to beat up on my friends.


And to the players who say that this style of game can't function in multiplayer? WTF. Have you ever played any of the genre leaders? It works. It works well. Have some patience and quit being an ADD spaz.

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July 24, 2013 7:39:06 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RickyDMMontoya,
I explained why I need multiplayer in a 4x game. It's like a boardgame to me. I want to play it with people. I want to socialize with it. I want it to be the thing that brings my friends/family together for a night of beer and pretzles.

And others have explained why this is not a clear-cut case. You are citing your personal experiences and preferences to make a grand point about what games within this genre are all about and what they need. It is nice and all that you and your friends and families love to play turn-based strategy games like boardgames to socialize with them, but this is not a common pursuit for the majority of costumers. I think the main problem here is that you confuse your approach to be the only sensible one because this is the way you are used to play them. I am just saying that this is not the only way and you are in a minority position.

Why should I bother to play FE:LH? There's no story to speak of, there's no novel mechanics to explore beyond the first 10 minutes.

To use the inherent sandbox tools and the external modding tools to create personalized challenges. Instead of following the RPG story that comes with the box, you are enabled to create your own story every time, instead of relying on the obvious mechanic to play the game, you try a new combination of skills to beat the game.

These games are repetitive by their nature. If you've played one game of Fallen Enchantress to the end, you've seen everything there is. The only reason I have to play them - ever - is to beat up on my friends.

Every game is repetitive by nature, multiplayer can be an option if the gameplay and the demand supports it, but it's not a sure thing. I've played quite a lot of games of Legendary Heroes to the end and still learn new tactics and have fresh experiences, due to the capabilities of map generation, faction/sovereign/unit creation, randomization. Apart from that you completely leave out the area of modding which is a big thing for Legendary Heroes and can pretty much change the nature of the game.

Legendary Heroes follows a developing path of providing players with the tools to create their own interesting experiences, not to follow a given story path or to have quick action bits. Multiplayer can be a sensible option, but it is not a foregone conclusion for 4x turn-based strategy games.

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July 24, 2013 8:10:44 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Stardock games the way they are designed just wouldn't work with MP at all, so they shouldn't have MP, as it would be a waste of resources.

 

Hopefully GalCiv III will be designed to work that way. Maybe the GGPO license could work for MP games somehow, I think that license only costs $5,000.

 

 

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July 25, 2013 1:52:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Stardock games the way they are designed just wouldn't work with MP at all, so they shouldn't have MP, as it would be a waste of resources.

 

What are you talking about? How would they not work with multiplayer? Have you played any of the amazing games in this genre that have multiplayer? They work really, REALLY, well.

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July 27, 2013 2:45:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

It could probably work reasonably well if there was an option to disable tactical battles, and force auto-battle only. But even then your talking about a game that was not designed to be balanced competitively. What kind of start you get often determines in a big way how powerful you will be. Against dumber AI you can come back from a bad start but against other players it's unlikely. Imagine how long you would be sitting there rerolling maps until all players were satisfied with their start. These kind of issues pop up when you take a game that was designed for single player, and try to force multiplayer into it.

 

For me I just don't care. Even if multiplayer is added I wont play it. I don't like to commit hours at a time to play multiplayer. I need shorter sessions. So for me, and it's perhaps a bit self centered but I would rather see them focus development time elsewhere. Thinks like a better diplomacy system, more tech tree difference between Kingdom/Empire, and so on.

 
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July 27, 2013 2:56:49 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting ,

I have a friend who realli likes the look of FE: LH, but is turend off by the lack of multiplayer. He and me like playing games like Civ 5 togehter so its a huge turn-off not having any multiplayer.

Are there any known plans to add multiplayer in the future? And if not, how likely is it that it will be added at some point?


LOL.

As a constant user of pirated software, I actually considered buying this game legally for playing it on hotseat mode with friends, because it looked good and I couldn't find cracked last version.

But no multiplayer mode ? Like, seriously ?

Not a cent from me, until it's fixed

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July 27, 2013 5:07:05 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Semigall,


quoting post
I have a friend who realli likes the look of FE: LH, but is turend off by the lack of multiplayer. He and me like playing games like Civ 5 togehter so its a huge turn-off not having any multiplayer.

Are there any known plans to add multiplayer in the future? And if not, how likely is it that it will be added at some point?


LOL.

As a constant user of pirated software, I actually considered buying this game legally for playing it on hotseat mode with friends, because it looked good and I couldn't find cracked last version.

But no multiplayer mode ? Like, seriously ?

Not a cent from me, until it's fixed

If you're playing a pirated version of the game you should purchase the game or leave.

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July 28, 2013 3:22:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Semigall,
As a constant user of pirated software,

 

Calling it "pirated" doesn't make it any less stolen, or you any less a thief.

 

 

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July 28, 2013 5:36:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Brewskin,


Quoting Semigall, reply 38As a constant user of pirated software,

 

Calling it "pirated" doesn't make it any less stolen, or you any less a thief.

 

 

Intellectual property violations are not the same thing as theft.

 

By pirating the game, he didn't cause any single instance of the bits to flash out of existence.

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July 28, 2013 7:04:12 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RickyDMMontoya,

 
Multiplayer doesn't make a bad game good. But a lack of multiplayer makes a good game not worth playing. The social interaction of a 4x is a huge component.  It's like a better boardgame.

 

(My emphasis)

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. The lack of multiplayer in a game is only a factor IF you like multiplayer. There are plenty of players for which multiplayer just does not interest them, myself included. Now I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I like being able to play at my own pace, consider my moves, maybe even shut the game down and do something else while in the back of my mind I'm considering possibilities, then return to the game when I'm ready. This isn't really possible when other people are waiting on you to make your moves.

This single player focus, the effort that Stardock has put into making the single player game as interesting, rich and fulfilling as possible, is one of Stardock's strengths. It is also one of the reasons I like both Gal Civ 1 & 2 and Elemental so much.

I appreciate that there are some very passionate multiplayer supporters on these boards, but I hope that they will appreciate and respect that whilst multiplayer is an important factor for them, it isn't for everyone.

All the Best.

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July 28, 2013 7:17:18 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cynical304,



Quoting Brewskin,
reply 40


Quoting Semigall, reply 38As a constant user of pirated software,

 

Calling it "pirated" doesn't make it any less stolen, or you any less a thief.

 
*
 


Intellectual property violations are not the same thing as theft.

 

By pirating the game, he didn't cause any single instance of the bits to flash out of existence.

But he did steal the money that would have been paid to Stardock and the other companies involved had he bought the game legally. Some of which goes to pay for things like heating, lighting, the wages of its employees etc. Which in turn pays for those employee's homes, families, food, clothes etc. So by stealing a copy of the game, he's stealing from everyone who worked on the game or is connected to it.

Also if Stardock gets less money, they have less money to put into their games, which means less content for everyone.

So his theft affects everyone. Intellectual Property Violation Is Theft.

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July 28, 2013 8:03:23 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Ok, so FE/LH isn't MP, and almost certainly never will be.

Instead of spending your time complaining about it, just go on Steam and find a MP game you like.

There's tons of them out there, at least one should appeal to you.

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July 28, 2013 11:39:32 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Cynical304,

Quoting Brewskin, reply 40

Quoting Semigall, reply 38As a constant user of pirated software,

 

Calling it "pirated" doesn't make it any less stolen, or you any less a thief.

 

 

Intellectual property violations are not the same thing as theft.

 

By pirating the game, he didn't cause any single instance of the bits to flash out of existence.

 

 

Someone who takes something that doesn't belong to them is a thief, no matter what sort of mental gymnastics you use to pretend otherwise.

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July 29, 2013 7:29:54 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Put it this way, those of us who pay for the game get to look forward to games that have a tight development budget because of all the people who didn't pay.

If you're pirating games, you're basically poisoning the well so nobody will see a game produced on a decent budget.

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July 29, 2013 9:53:34 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting RickyDMMontoya,


Stardock games the way they are designed just wouldn't work with MP at all, so they shouldn't have MP, as it would be a waste of resources.

 


What are you talking about? How would they not work with multiplayer? Have you played any of the amazing games in this genre that have multiplayer? They work really, REALLY, well.

 

And those games are designed for MP.   Tacking on MP willy-nilly just doesn't work- you have to implement it intelligently.

 

Brad decided (and most of the forum from many polls agree with Brad) that the man-hours/money-hours spent for MP would be better used improving other features.

 

I"d love to see Stardock so a 4X TBS game with MP, but I want that game to do it right- it wouldn't be done right with Elemental.  Now GalCiv 3 or FFH3 could be a different story.

 

 

 

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July 29, 2013 9:54:42 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Lol @ the piracy thread hijack.  @Simegall: Well played, sir!

Piracy is just a reality of game development.  Pirating games is not ethical, but it is not stealing.  And a pirate, by definition, would never pay for the game, so it doesn't affect game budgets or take food out of the mouths of developers.

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July 29, 2013 9:59:03 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Alstein,

And those games are designed for MP.   Tacking on MP willy-nilly just doesn't work- you have to implement it intelligently.
 

 

WoM.  The grand disaster that was Elemental:World of Magic was designed top-down to support multiplayer.  I think all threads about MP should have one reply with a bare URL to the metacritic page of WoM and then be locked.  There's nothing else to talk about.

FE is better than WoM.  LH is better than FE (and is a really good game).  And these games are better than WoM in part because they don't do multiplayer.

Quoting Alstein,
I"d love to see Stardock so a 4X TBS game with MP, but I want that game to do it right- it wouldn't be done right with Elemental. Now GalCiv 3 or FFH3 could be a different story.

Agreed.  The problem is that GalCiv 2 was so tight that wedging MP in there might break the whole thing to pieces.

The problem is that Stardock approaches games in a way that hearkens back to the early days of PC gaming.  They have a single-player mentality and they make (usually) great single-player games.  They've taken shots at the MP market with WoM and Demigod, did they learn enough from those failures to put together something new and interesting for multiplayer in the 4x genre?  Can you even make an interesting MP game in the 4x space?

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July 29, 2013 10:24:02 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting sweatyboatman,
Piracy is just a reality of game development. Pirating games is not ethical, but it is not stealing. And a pirate, by definition, would never pay for the game, so it doesn't affect game budgets or take food out of the mouths of developers.

Usually, I look forward to Sweatyboatman's posts since he is so often "the voice of reason." However, he is really missing the boat on this one [pun intended].

The argument that the pirate/thief wouldn't pay for the game anyway is specious. The pirate/thief's argument that he would buy the game if he liked it is also a lie. There is always an excuse why he won't pay for any particular game.

It's true if there are 10,000 potential pirates for a given game and pirating was somehow completely eliminated, you wouldn't instead have 10,000 additional sales. However, sales would increase. And for those who pirate but wouldn't buy anyway, it is still stealing. "But officer, sure I ran through that stop sign, but I wasn't going to stop anyway."

 

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